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Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/30/2004 : 01:50:04

Ok, here is where I'm at so far
(I'm posting just the links to help speed the topic load up)
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3f833bcfd0000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3f8b63d480000001610
My shoulders are sore
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3f9e7fcb10000001610
I'm at a total of about 24 hours worth of work
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3e9bffce10000001610
No blisters but I did sand through the gel coat in some spots. It seems to be rather thin in some areas, but the new epoxy barrier coat should cover it nicely
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3ee3f3dca0000001610
When I lift the pads back into place how much pressure should I set them with?
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3ff62fc370000001610
Now to my big question. While using a wire wheel, I started chasing some rust and found this seam. As you can see it runs at the hull keel joint, probably the length of the keel. Should I continue to open this up (no visible crack on the surface) or just seal it off here, fair it and paint? Can I use simple Bondo to fair with? Thanks for your help.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3ee913d640000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3e9fdfca30000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd08b3127ccebbd3f931fc670000001610

Mark-
'Impulse...�
1978 C25 #533 SR/DIN/FIN ~_/)~
Bakersfield, CA.

Edited by - Mark Maxwell on 04/03/2004 18:50:43

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 08:51:09

Hi Mark,

Excellent work so far... your best friend right now is Ibuprofen!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When I lift the pads back into place how much pressure should I set them with?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Enough to start to move the boat up, otherwise each time the boat will get lower and lower until all the weight is on the keel.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Should I continue to open this up (no visible crack on the surface) or just seal it off here, fair it and paint? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would open it up until I found rust free steel or a good bond of fiberglass to the keel.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Can I use simple Bondo to fair with?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No. Bondo is not waterproof and will make a mess of things if water gets back in the area. Evercoat makes a fiberglass reinforced waterprooof filler material like bondo, it is in a purple/pink can and you can find it at your local car paint supply. I'll try to post the name tonight when I get home. Interlux makes a filler called Watertite but the Evercoat is pretty inexpensive in comparison, about 30.00 for a gallon. * Be sure to rough fair this stuff right after it kicks with a surform rasp. If you wait until it is cured it sands like steel.*

You DO have a good respirator right!!?

You also need a rust converter before you prime this area. You car paint supply will have one, or if you can order it the Por-15 primer is really good. http://www.por15.com/product.asp?productid=21

I would finish grinding it open, treat the rust, prime it, fill it and fair it, barrier coat it and then apply the bottom paint. Be sure to look closely at your keel bolts too.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 09:32:02

Wow, that's a lot of work... with nice results. Are you going to barrier coat the bottom?
IMHO highly recommended considering the amount of time you've got into it.

Did you see the photos of the baking soda blasting posted earlier this year?
Entire bottom shiny and new in an hour or so... (ducks and runs)

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 09:46:37

It appears that your boat has the infamous "Catalina Smile". My boat had one when I redid my bottom a few years ago and I pretty much did what was already suggested...grind out around the crack, prime, fill, fair, and barrier coat.

It is a known issue and you can probably get repair information from the factory.

http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/images/keel_factory_drawings/keel_crack_repair._from_catalina.gif

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 13:32:35

My neck hurts just looking at this!

Great job Mark . . . ditto on the barrier coat.

I used Interlux 2000E and the VC17 - bulletproof combination.

Edited by - OJ on 03/30/2004 22:45:44

teamwike
1st Mate

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82 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 14:08:10

Thank you for the Pictures, about to start mine next month. Have the same problem with the keel (same spot). I also have some rust on the bottom on the keel.
What setup did you use to sand with? ( type sander and grit paper)
Thanks again,
Max
3315 82 fin/soon to be tall

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 14:29:38

Great Job, I was thinking of doing the same thing. after seeing what you have goen through I'll wait till next year. The admrial doesn't want me to spend money anyway.

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 18:49:46

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'll post more pics as the project continues.

Max here is the equipment I'm using
(I'm posting just the links to help speed the topic load up)
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd11b3127ccebbc1800a29620000001610
An 8 hole sander/w/80grit attached to a shop vac (double bagged)
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd11b3127ccebbc18d3a69cc0000001610
A draw scaper
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd11b3127ccebbc18c6e29000000001610
and a good OSHA/NIOSH respirator
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4dd11b3127ccebbc1832369d20000001610

Edited by - Mark Maxwell on 04/03/2004 18:49:41

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 22:45:01

Having the right equipment can make or break this job . . . glad to see the mask also!

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 08:04:17

Mark - there is more than a good chance that the areas you sanded through were in fact small blisters that popped during the sanding... I would definitely put a 10 mil barrier coat on that bottom.

Edited by - on

teamwike
1st Mate

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82 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 09:49:38

Thanks Mark,
What do mean by doubled bag? ( My shop vac has one filter)
Thanks again this is the perfect motivation I needed to start on my hull.

I like your " keel guides-ons " on your trailer, are they affective? I am going to start ramp launching vs. using the travel lift.

Max
82 fin/soon to be tall

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 15:18:13

Mark:

Great work! I have two responses (which don't necessarily agree 100% with some of the other comments):

1) In general, the weight of the boat SHOULd be standing on the keel. The stands and pads are there to keep it from "keeling over" (sorry!), not to support weight.

2) You have so much work into this, I would recommend using West System fillers for that gap in the keel. 90% of the cost of the job you are doing is in the labor, so why not use the best available tools and materials? Besides, part of the fun is ending up with some new toys...

A question: Where did you get the trailer? I am beginning to look for one for my C25 fin keel (moving to Fla and the Intracoastal seems a bit far from NE in a 25-foot outboard sailboat).

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 15:44:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
1) In general, the weight of the boat SHOULd be standing on the keel. The stands and pads are there to keep it from "keeling over" (sorry!), not to support weight.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is 100% correct when dealing with Fin and wing keels.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

2) You have so much work into this, I would recommend using West System fillers for that gap in the keel. 90% of the cost of the job you are doing is in the labor, so why not use the best available tools and materials? Besides, part of the fun is ending up with some new toys...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree - Bondo is not the way to go...

Colloidal Silica or West system microballoons. They are made for the job and will only cost you about 60 bucks, resin included. Mix it to a consistency of peanut butter patch sand and repeat if needed. Read the mixing instructions and don't try and mix too much at once.

dw

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 16:09:07

Great job: Don't chase the seam/crack . Use West systems . Their guide will tell you what to use and how to use it . Make your own filler as they describe . Good stuff . Will you be putting on a barrier coat. Previous and numerous posts on this . The product I used was a high solids epoxy . Less solvents and no blush .
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/4_epoxypaint.html It turned out great.

Edited by - on

teamwike
1st Mate

Members Avatar

82 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 16:44:37

Look at www.boatrailer.com located in Milton Fl. Can e-mail pics of mine.
Max

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2004 : 09:58:35

If you don't want to spring for West equipment because you may not have longterm use for it (its great stuff) try Marinetex, which is somewhat similar, although harder to sand than some West mixtures, also with West, once you experiment with fillers, you can find the consistency you like and feel most comfortable with. I agree with all: use the best stuff you can, its no place to save a few bucks, do it right. But Marinetex is good stuff, too, ron srsk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2004 : 11:12:11

I agree with Ron that MarnieTex is an excellent product - except it's pretty difficult to work with. I'd warm it up first by allowing the can to sit in the sun for a couple-three hours. Also, shape it (have plastic squeegees available) as close the desired form before it cures as it is difficult to sand. When you do sand, I'd suggest using an electric sander, starting with 50 grit.

Good luck!

Edited by - OJ on 04/03/2004 11:13:43

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2004 : 13:10:45

I use a 4 1/2" DeWalt grinder to cut away the excess filler. It grinds it away so quickly that you have to be careful you don't go too deep. After most of the excess material is cut away, I finish the job with a random orbit sander.

Before I got the grinder, I used to hate having to crouch under the hull, pressing the sander against the keel with little noticeable effect, repeatedly loading and tearing my sandpaper, and gasping for breath through the respirator.

The grinder gets a tedious job done in a flash.

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2004 : 19:35:46

Thanks you guy's for all the info. I do not want to do this again anytime soon so you can bet I want it done right (to last).
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What do mean by doubled bag? ( My shop vac has one filter)
I like your " keel guides-ons " on your trailer, are they affective? I am going to start ramp launching vs. using the travel lift.

Max
82 fin/soon to be tall
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Max-
To double bag you'll need a filter cover that will slip over your existing filter (like a pillow case).
The guides are great, I can imagine how hard it would be to try and center the keel without them.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Did you see the photos of the baking soda blasting posted earlier this year?
Entire bottom shiny and new in an hour or so... (ducks and runs)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Clambeach-
I did see that topic and I'm very jealous

so thanks for rub'n it in

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A question: Where did you get the trailer? I am beginning to look for one for my C25 fin keel (moving to Fla and the Intracoastal seems a bit far from NE in a 25-foot outboard sailboat).

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616 - SR, FK)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dave-
The trailer came with the boat. It's made by Trailrite. The P.O. used it for dry docking only. When I bought it I had to make a launch wheel, add lights and new tires just to use it.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Great job: Don't chase the seam/crack . Use West systems . Their guide will tell you what to use and how to use it . Make your own filler as they describe . Good stuff . Will you be putting on a barrier coat. Previous and numerous posts on this . The product I used was a high solids epoxy . Less solvents and no blush . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Douglas-
It's because of your earlier posts that I decided to do mine. Thanks for the info on Epoxy Products. I just received my order of Water Gard 300 and C15 primer from them.

Thanks again for all the good input. I'm off to finish fairing with West Systems...now where is that Ibuprofen..

Edited by - Mark Maxwell on 04/03/2004 19:43:43

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2004 : 13:49:56

The hardest part of this whole thing is once your done. The bottom will look so clean and fast then you have to convince yourself to put bottom paint over the epoxy. Dam . Im glad you have done this project though. Now I can pass the duty off to you as the resident bottom work pro. You have gone far and above the work I did and it shows. Good job .

Edited by - on

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