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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Catalina 25 with capri rig....

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parmitage
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/13/2004 : 13:31:46

I am looking at buying a 1986 Catalina and in it's description it reads that it has a Capri rig. I'm not sure what this means and neither does the broker. Could it be that the boat is a Capri 25?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 14:17:56

Can the broker provide you with the Hull ID#? I'm not sure, but it possibly could clarify things. A call to Catalina Yachts in CA might also tell you what to look for in the # to differentiate between a Cat vs. Capri hull.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 14:58:54

Not quite certain if that is worded correctly. I believe your really looking at a 1986 25 foot capri, built by catalina.

You should be able to find the specs on both here

http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/model.tpl?sku=3075184776362326&fno=20&bts=T

Edited by - Champipple on 04/13/2004 15:05:53

parmitage
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 16:21:37

If is does turn out to be a Capri 25, why is there such a huge difference in the NADA used boat price guide between the Capri 25 and a Catalina 25?

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 17:32:09

They are very, very different boats. Follow Duane Wolf's advice and the differences will be clear.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 18:34:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by parmitage
 If is does turn out to be a Capri 25, why is there such a huge difference in the NADA used boat price guide between the Capri 25 and a Catalina 25?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Miata vs Buick

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 18:47:50

With 900 lbs of ballast (2785 lbs displacement) and a 9' 2" beam, the Capri 25 sure is a different animal than the C25!

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 23:10:32

They do indeed sail extremely differently. The Capri is fast, but tender like a Hunter. The cabin accommodations are more like a J/29; not overly cruiser friendly. Different strokes...

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 11:59:24

Hey Paul,

If the boat turns out to be a Capri 25 (built by Catalina beginning in the early '80s) you'll find many differences between it an a C25. The Capri 25 was designed to sail bow to bow with the J24. In fact, Capri 25 and J24 have the same PHRF handicap in most regions. It's hard to believe that a dealer doesn't know the difference.......

Some of the differences you'll notice are that the Capri has:
Much wider side decks and lower cabin top.
The step up from the dock is much shorter to the Capri.
The Capri cockpit is huge
The Capri tiller and rudder post are inboard from the transom (in the cockpit)
The Capri interior is spartan - but does have cushions.
With essentially the same size sail plan as a tall rig C25, and ~40% less displacement, the Capri 25's sail area to displacement is awsome. The Capri 25 accellerates very quickly from a tack or jibe and frequently exceeds hull speed on reaches and runs.

Conversely, the Capri 25 sure doesn't have the creature comforts of a Catalina 25.
No galley
No enclosed head compartment,
Less storage
Lower headroom in the cabin
No table

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

takokichi
Captain

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USA
321 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 16:41:09

I've read at least once that the Capri 25 is quick but has a dangerous quirk. Apparently, because of its beam and relatively short keel, the boat does not recover from knockdowns very effectively. I have never sailed one so I don't know from personal experience. I do know from a friend who used to crew on them that they can be kill PHRF machines and a lot of fun b/c most people see Catalina and think fat and slow - and then get rocked.

Anyone know more about the knockdown factor?

Justin

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 19:05:50

One sank at Lake Hephner in OKC in the late 80s. It broached and did not come back up after the keel crossed horizontal. The wide beam made it go past the self righting point, it filled and sank.

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 20:41:04

The sinking thing is a problem. I know of two Capri 25s that have sunk in the Pacific NW. In both cases, the winds were strong and the boat heeled over very far to port. The portside cockpit hatch was not secured and flopped open allowing water to pour in and fill the boat. Both reports indicate the sinking occured in less than 10 minutes.

Incidentally, our C25s could have the same situation happen. Snickerdoodle was involved in a spinnaker broach that found massive amounts of water flowing over the portside coaming and into the cockpit. Fortunately, I've always secured the hasp on the locker. If not, I would have sunk too.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

BTW: I also secure my bottom two hatchboards in breezy situations too.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 21:08:50

Then this guy better be careful with his Capri 25....

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 21:50:46

Whew! That's a tender boat--I don't see a lot of wind on the water, and it looks like that chute would dump the boat if a puff came up!

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 23:13:40

Spinnaker = crash waiting to happen. ;>)

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 09:55:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 Spinnaker = crash waiting to happen. ;>)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not necessarily

Spinaker pole on the forestay = crash waiting to happen

Since I wrote the article on how to rig for a tri-radial, I feel compelled to mention that any time your spin pole is sitting on the forestay, you are sailing at way to high of an angle down wind. Get that pole back, run down more and get better VMG. If the transition doesn't improve your VMG, it very well be time for a sail change. At the very least, get it six inches off the wire.

1. a pole on the forestay is structurally not good as it exerts pressure in the wrong way on the forestay.

2. It usually means you are sailing at an unsafe angle to the wind

3. Its feels really quick, but in reality its pretty darn slow.

Edited by - Champipple on 04/15/2004 14:15:46

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 11:23:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Whew! That's a tender boat--I don't see a lot of wind on the water, and it looks like that chute would dump the boat if a puff came up!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I crewed on a Capri 25 about 15 years ago, and it didn't seem to be particularly tender for the type of boat it is. By their nature, racing boats are very light weight and are capable of carrying large sail areas. It's crucial that you choose the right sails for the wind conditions. Because our Catalina 25s are so heavy, there's a wider range of discretion in the choice of sails, but, if you raise too much sail area on the Capri 25, you can't keep it flat and you pay a huge penalty in terms of excessive heeling and loss of speed.

The biggest design difference between the Capri 25 and the J24 is that the J24 is fractionally rigged, and the Capri 25 is masthead rigged. The fractional rig has a proportionately bigger mainsail and smaller headsail than the masthead rig. The most powerful sail on a masthead rigged boat is it’s big headsail. The most powerful sail on a fractionally rigged boat is it’s big mainsail. I haven’t actually surveyed the sizes of spinnakers on masthead and fractionally rigged boats, but, just from looking, it appears that masthead rigged boats tend to carry bigger spinnakers than fractional rigs.

When you are carrying the maximum amount of sail area for the wind conditions (which is always the case when you are racing) any sailboat is always on the verge of heeling excessively. When you are on the ragged edge of heeling excessively, it’s easier to control the excessive heeling on a fractionally rigged boat, because all you have to do is dump the big mainsail, and you instantly reduce most of the driving force of the sailplan. The only sail that is still driving the boat is the small headsail, and the headsail doesn’t contribute as much to excessive heel as the mainsail. By comparison, if you dump the small mainsail of a masthead rigged boat, you still have the huge headsail driving the boat, and you might still be overpowered. In that case, you have to reduce the size of the headsail in order to control the excessive heeling of the boat, and that takes much more time and effort than it takes to dump the mainsail. For that reason, people who race boats with masthead rigs tend to defer the decision to change to a smaller headsail, and the result is that they tend to be overpowered way too much of the time. When you sail overpowered too much of the time, you get knocked down more often, and bad things can happen when you get knocked down.

Another reason why fractional rigs are easier to sail (especially short-handed) is because they are easier to tack. The smaller headsail is less likely to get tangled in the rig as it comes across the wind. Smaller headsails also have shorter jibsheets, and you can get the jib sheeted in and drawing much faster during a tack.

In recent years, boat designers have come to appreciate how much easier it is to sail a boat with a fractional rig, both for racers and for cruisers, and most modern racing and cruising designs are using fractional rigs.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 14:08:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's crucial that you choose the right sails for the wind conditions<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve is absolutely correct about sail selection. The Evelyn 32-2 that we took down to key west this year weighs less than the a C-25, was 7 feet longer, and probably has 3 times the sail area if not more. Choosing the wrong sail compliment, (size, weight, reef in main etc) will put you on your ear (and beyond) far quicker than anything else in a lightweight racer... not to mention is highly inefficient and will leave you at the back of the pack in a heartbeat.

Parmitage - if your looking for a cruiser the Capri is not going to be your cup of tea.

NOTE - I edited my above post, if you fly a tri-radial please read

Edited by - Champipple on 04/15/2004 14:17:05

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 16:11:49

Bill, how do you "secure the bottom two hatchboards" ?

Sounds like a good idea and I'll look into latching the port locker as well.

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2004 : 11:19:31

Hi Jim,

I've installed a small barrel bolt door locks near the upper corners of my two lower hatch boards (on the inside so that they don't show from the cockpit). I drilled 1/4" holes in the inside teak trim strips to match up with the bolt when it is extended.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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