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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/17/2004 : 11:47:33

From the cruising community .....for more go here:

http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicLat/2004/0404/April14/Apr14.html#anchor1085433

At 1PM on Wednesday March 10th our beautiful Catalina 42 Bingo AGAIN! died on the beach at Punta Perula, Mexico. “Rest In Peace” BingoAGAIN! Unfortunately the boat did not die on it’s own, we killed it. What I want to share with you is not only the tragedy and tears but the heart swelling support we got from those in the cruising community.

We had left Tenacatita Bay that morning bound for Puerto Vallarta, a run of maybe a100 miles we had made several times. We wanted to be in PV to meet our friends in the MEXORC and Bandaras Bay regattas. As we started out Lynn commented that with my normal plan of staying five miles plus off the coast there was little scenery to see. Since she was on the first watch I agreed and said stay 1 ½ miles off and be alert, we were away

We were sailing Northwest on a nice 18-20 knot port beam reach with the autopilot which handled the sailing well. Unfortunately it worked on magnetic and not GPS. We had the main well out to keep the boat on it’s feet. The net result was 7 ½ to 8 Knots of boat speed but with way too much set. Each puff pushed us down toward the shore.

Lynn was seated on the high side under the dodger and watching ahead. She could see the beautiful sand beach ahead and the clear water to starboard. What she could not see, with the headsails blocking her view, were the rocks jutting out from Punta Perula. I was below enjoying the silence of no engine and working on, of all things, our 2003 income tax.

Suddenly I felt two slight bumps and then a horrible crash. When I rushed above I saw that we were trapped between two rocks, with all sails fully powered, and huge surf pushing us side to side between the rocks. Each wave would oscillate us from 30 degrees port to 30 degrees starboard, and as I was to soon learn, punch another hole in the sides of the boat. The surf was now breaking completely over us.

We quickly de-powered the sails, got the engine running, and with the Lord’s help managed to back “AGAIN” off the rocks. Looking below as we sailed and motored around the rock I saw there was no hope for the vessel as the water was now half way up to the galley counter. We headed for the five miles of sand beach maybe a quarter mile plus away and as King Neptune swallowed the engine we hit the sand.

Fortunately there was a large panga nearby with students aboard from Guadalajara University, doing water research, that had seen our plight and quickly drove ashore to assist us. With their help we were able to get our dog, cat, and large Macaw ashore as well as critical passports and boat papers. We then swam ashore to join them as the surf washed over the boat and it settled in the sand. Total time from first striking the rocks was no more than 3 1/2 minutes at the outside.

Then began an eight hour ordeal of getting to the town of Perula by panga, notifying the authorities as well as our insurance company. Imagine my emotions when I finally heard a friendly voice on the phone saying they were coming to help. It was Dave Domingo from La Evasion in Marina Vallarta saying that he would be there in a couple of hours. I stood in the back of a carryout store with the only phone in a town of three hundred people as the tears rolled down my face in relief.

I needed to get back to the beach, arrange security for the boat, and find Lynn who was still waiting on the beach with two students. As we returned at dusk they were arranging to start a fire so we could find them. To get to the main road from the beach required a six mile drive over the dirt roads through the jungle.

Dave contacted Robert Sutherland from the boat Echo/Profiligate and they drove the three hours from PV to Perula, arriving at 10 PM, to get us. We were tired, wet, and emotionally drained. The students had taken us to their house, which Dave and Robert had to find on the dirt road in the dark, fed us and tried to make us and our pets comfortable. It was then back to PV arriving at 2 AM Thursday morning.

Dave and Vance loaned us their Jeep the next 4 days and Robert began the first of several round trips, six hours driving, to the boat from PV. We were joined Thursday by Patrick O’Brien and Scott from the yacht Sorcery with the plan to get as much of our personal gear, clothes, etc., off the boat as we could. Unfortunately the boat already had several feet of sand inside and there was little that could be salvaged. Scott did add to the excitement when he was stung by a ray and required medical attention. We had many other folks from the cruising community volunteer to help but the five of us were all that was needed that day.

By now the Mexican Navy was on site with a ship off the beach and the Federales on shore standing guard. Throughout this trying time the Mexican officials did all they could to help.

Saturday was our last trip again with Robert driving Dave’s SUV. We were joined by Bill from Les Scapada with his truck as well as Doug and Lynn Baker off of Mrs. Harrigan. In addition we had a surveyor from San Diego. We were successful in loading the truck with the life raft, outboard, and other small gear.

The surveyor took many pictures and then dove the wreck. He noted a eight foot gash in the port side and felt the starboard side may have been worse but by then it was buried in the sand. I then paid the police for their time on security watch and we had another long tedious, but fortunately last, drive back to Puerto Vallarta.

One of biggest problems would have been housing were it not for Dave and Vance from Evasion. They opened their home to us for two weeks until we were prepared to leave. Hotels were out of the question as who wants a dog, cat, and parrot. However Dave and Vance are pet lovers and we simply added to their zoo for the period. In addition they gave us clothes to wear as we had nothing from the boat. Dave also gave me a cash advance as we had lost our wallets in the rush to the beach. Their help both physically and mentally to us cannot be described, it was awesome.

So what lessons have we learned from this experience? The first is that no matter what you think, you will have almost no time to act in such a situation. We were holed and immediately the water overcame the boat even with an additional high capacity bilge. The second is to rotate watches at all times particularly on warm sunny afternoons. That keeps the “On Watch Crew” sharp. After 6000 miles in the past two years we were probably not as diligent as we could have been. The last is what support you get from other cruisers.

While we have mentioned some names above these were but a few that helped or offered their sympathy and time to us. What a great community of folks that are tight knit but constantly in transition. We received e-mails of support from people as far away as Panama that we had previously met as they heard of this on the net.

So where do we go from here? Such begins the next adventure of our lives. Fortunately the boat was insured. We are now back in California and trying to get our thoughts together, and yes we are looking at other boats. With the Lord’s help we hope to be back cruising next year. We also realize that had we not been able to get off the rocks we would have been crushed to death.

Lady Kay IV, Dragonfly 25 # 54 Former C30#618-C250WB#618-C42#76

Edited by - Oscar on 05/19/2004 22:41:05

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2004 : 16:02:17

"So what lessons have we learned from this experience? The first is that no matter what you think, you will have almost no time to act in such a situation..."

The first thing they should have learned is to have charts and use them. By knowing where you are and where the dangers are, one can avoid situations like this.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2004 : 18:55:46

And never to become complacent. These folks cruised 6000 miles over the past two years and unfortunately that fact worked against them rather than in their favor.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2004 : 18:58:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What she could not see, with the headsails blocking her view, were the rocks jutting out from Punta Perula.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Also, no matter how relaxed and confident you are, peek around the headsail every once-in-a-while.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2004 : 21:39:34

I'm really sorry for their loss and too bad the C42 couldn't stand up to the beating for just a little longer. I saw a picture of the damage on the Lattitude 38 site and it is a BIG hole.

I never run off the beach without my depth meter with shallow water alarm turned on.

I am rarely on autopilot alone in 18 to 20 knots. I( would be under reefed main and small jib, with the boat balanced.

When I was on my cruise I NEVER sailed ANYWHERE without planning my course for the day on a chart, programming the waypoints before we left, and logging each waypoint reached and resultant new course. I also recorded in my log before I left the magnetic course and distance between each waypoint in case I had a GPS failure.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 01:21:47

Your collective reactions are very interesting. All of you are, of course, correct.

However, as part of my profession I have studied in detail and in a formal training environment, countless major aviation accidents. Twenty years ago we read transcripts of cockpit voice recorders and written reports of aircraft movement and system performance. Today we watch full blown computer graphic simulations with audio, which are, just like the video games of today, frightfully realistic. Years ago it was not unusual to hear comments, similar to your reactions above, from the classroom.

What we have learned from two decades of this is that, with few exceptions, these accidents happened to competent, capable, careful professionals. Somehow they found themselves caught in a chain of, by themselves, insignificant events and contributing factors which in concert led to the accident. Learning to break that chain of events is the first step in safety .

When I read the above report, my first reaction was that it could have happened to me, in fact accidents can happen to anyone of us. The, "how stupid of them, I always do this or that so it would not have happened to me" is what we have learned to be the first link in the chain. Only when you realize that, even with everything hunky dory, you could be on your way to an accident, and keep that as your primary mindset, do you have a chance to break the chain.

I have been taught to quietly remember, at all times, that there are those that have screwed up, and those that will. I belong in both categories, and readily admit it. Decades of scienctific research into "the human factor" has proven beyond a doubt, that that very attitude gives me/us a fighting chance. I have carried this philosophy with me onto the water.

Figure I'd share this with you all.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay in Venice Inlet, Florida USA.

Edited by - Oscar on 04/18/2004 01:33:43

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 08:11:41

Well said everyone.
I just know that some kind of accident will loom in my future. Just last year I broke two toes dropping my rudder on them. I guesse that's why I try to do "contingency planning" in trying to prevent my inevitable screw ups.

I drive some folks crazy in the operating room when I do anesthesia to prevent any possible bad outcome. (Yes, there are lazy folks who work in the OR too who really don't care)

So when I see a story about the folks in Mexico on the reef, I think, you know, that could be me.

We all take risks, I guesse we just need to keep them controlled risks, and not stupid risks (easier said than done, but not to the monday morning quarterbacks out there)

Have a great day

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 08:15:22

I just checked out the link shown above, and there is a pic of the boat.

Really ugly.

That Lectronic Lattitude looks like an interesting site too.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 10:54:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Oscar
 ...When I read the above report, my first reaction was that it could have happened to me, in fact accidents can happen to anyone of us. The, "how stupid of them, I always do this or that so it would not have happened to me" is what we have learned to be the first link in the chain...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My first reaction was not, "how stupid of them", but "how could this have been averted", which is the basis of why you spent twenty years "studying" countless major aviation accidents. By learning from either one's own mistakes or the mistakes of others, we can lessen the odds of starting that first link in the chain of events that results in an accident.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 11:01:52

Very unfortunate.

Coastal navigation has become IMHO much safer with GPS but the lesson here is clear... disaster still lurks.

Basic disciplines not observed in this story are easy enough to see, and serve a reminder that a moment of relaxed attention can bite very quickly.

It's interesting that the challenges presented by the hazards serve a two edged sword, yielding satisfaction and enjoyment of the doing and the heart sinking experience of failure.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 12:15:51

I was not saying "how stupid of them..." Just telling what I do in similar circumstances.

I well know that accidents can happen to anyone, and have happened to me. Some by my own stupidity, inattention, or carelessness. Some because the situation overwhelmed me and was beyond my ability to control. That is similar to what Oscar is talking about. In this case, I think the accident occured because of inattention and carelessness born of complacency. Even so, they could have saved the boat (maybe) if they had acted right once on the rocks. The needed to get off the rocks and patch the hole, not motor onto the beach - although grounding on sand is a feasible option when you have a hole and there are pumps available.

By looking at the hole I think the boat was lost no matter what. I am dissapointed to see that the C42 hull shattered so badly. I may rule out ever going cruising on a C42 for this reason alone. But I didn't see the rocks and don't know how big the winds and waves were.

As a pilot, Oscar must know about "chair flying" (I worked in USAF pilot training for a while). You sit in a chair (on the ground) and picture all the maneuvers, motions and controls you are going to do once in the air. Thinking ahead like this really helps you be prepared.

As I study sea accidents, I am always chair flying - putting myself in that situation and trying to figure out how I would have reacted - no make tht SHOULD HAVE reacted.

Also, I think Oscar should know that pilots have their first major accident after about (what is it exactly?) 2000 hours. That's a lot of time. The reason in complacency. If we ever lose our boat, I only pray that it is on MY watch. I don't want spouse or daughter carrying that guilt. The sea has a way of making you take responsibility for your actions (rare in this age).

We had a real bad situation on our voyage, the boat was grounding in big swells as the tide went out at anchor in the Bahamas. A big twin screw powerboat, the rudders and props were doing the grounding. It was about 6 PM. This situation occured because of my fatigue, nervousness, and my inability to take the time to properly convert metric tide tables to english units. It was totally my fault. Karen even tried to get me to move before the tide went out. I wanted us to be out of the swells. I was very tired after a 120 mile day into strong head seas and winds (everything was WET).

I think we were in just barely deep enough water, but we were grounding on a small coral head. This coral was off our stern when we first anchored, but we swung over it with the tide.

The situation did not overwhelm us. I got 3 anchors to deep water and put thousands of pounds of force on them using the windlass. Every time the boat hit my anxeity climbed. I kept pulling and pulling each line tighter in turn. We tried pushing with the dinghy but it was hopeless with a 5 hp motor. I wanted nothing more than to start the main engines, but them in gear and throttle up and get us off! But I did not. Instead I tightened the kedge lines some more. Karen and the kids went to sleep. I drank a beer and tried to read. Finally around 10 PM we suddenly slid off and into the deep part of the lagoon like we were shot by a bow. We reanchored and never again in the Bahamas did we anchor in less than 8 feet of water (no matter what the tide).

No damage resulted, only a sleepless night. I had to tighten the rudder stuffing boxes a little. We were worried stiff about anchoring for months.

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 19:01:10

So...an insurance adjuster is talking to a Catalina owner who has piled his boat up on the rocks - this is a hypothetical conversation;

adjuster - "...and who was responsible for navigating when you hit..."
owner - "I was."
adjuster - "who had the watch?"
owner - "we were both on deck..."
adjuster - "where were you at the time?"
owner - "In the cockpit."
adjuster - "what were you doing at the time?"
owner - "my 2003 taxes"
adjuster - looking up and away, lost in thought..."oh."

Insurance companies work for profit. And only for profit. Every one will pay a little more to cover this loss and others like it, as well.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2004 : 20:20:08

I have a question for those who have sailed the Mexican coast: Do the charts mark all of the rocks? Or do they just mark the rocks in the vicinity of harbors and bays, and the other ones that show themselves at low tide? I'm suspecting that these folks looked at the charts, saw nothing, and figured miles of sandy beach would be surrounded by miles of sandy bottom... There are many places in the world where the charts don't show everything--including Massachusetts, where they update the charts each time a ship finds a "new obstruction." (..."new" meaning something less than 6 million years old.) Now, a general understanding about this may have been the reason that this couple normallly stayed five miles offshore. So you could say that they failed to follow their own conventional wisdom.

As for depth sounder alarms, they tend to go off a few fractions of a second after you've hit the rock.

You can be careful, but you never know for sure.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 00:51:04

Jim, I think any captain would be hard pressed to lay a navigation error on crew, even if crystal clear instructions weren't carried out. The responsibility remains on the captain in that he should only trust the watch to someone who won't error, or that he provide redundancy to eliminate a crew error from resulting in loss of ship.

That may seem a little harsh on the captain, but IMHO, he accepts such when he takes on crew. It may seem wrong that the captain of the sailboat run down in a channel a year ago by a power boater was asessed 40% blame. However, both skippers failed to post a watch that yielded an iminent collision and both skippers failed to initate a collision avoidance course. The power boater was guilty also of failure to yield to the stand on vessel. Five infractions, 20% each.

I agree... this story is not about blame... that is the captains'. Its about the reality that things can and sometimes do go wrong.

A few years ago, Ben Allen was coastal navigating the Gulf Coast and went aground and totaled his C25. He had gone below after 10pm to get some rest and gave instructions to the crew to observe no less than 25 feet of water depth and bear out if the depth fell under. He had the sounder set on the 25 foot setting to give warning. The crew however, decided to change the backligting display of the sounder and in doing punched a wrong button and turned off the alarm and later drove the boat onto the beach where the surf pounded it on its keel and broke her up. While Ben could not have anticipated that the crew would turn off the alarm, he was in a sense guilty of not giving adequate instructions about the sounders operation. A gps would have offered some redundancy to sounder navigation. At any rate, the captain bears the burden and Ben accepted that.

I'd think that once a boat grounds on rocks or hard bottom in a surf... escaping serious damage would be very fortunate.

Edited by - on

Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 11:01:55

I have 2 thoughts here, and since the topic is somewhat general I trust that they won't seem off-topic.

The first is that these folks should understand that the "cruising community" is the only place they are ever going to get sympathy for their loss. Boat-owning is an activity highly symbolic of class division to the general public and non-boat owners are basically going to have no sympathy for people who own such a beautiful object and get to lead such a beautiful lifestyle and somehow screw it up. Even those of us who are boaters tend to be unsympathetic to other boaters much higher up in the financial food chain. I'm sincerely glad they didn't get hurt but I tend to think their accident won't prevent them from getting another great boat and going out there to do what I can't dream of without much problem. I'm not feeling all teary about this--unsympathetic audiences are the price of success.

My second thought regards the powerboat issue. I think that the speed capabilities of powerboats are so much greater than that of sailboats that for all practical purposes a sailboat is a standing object in relation to a powerboat with full throttle on. I think the colregs should reflect that better. I've noticed that the air horn signals routinely mentioned in the regs and instruction books are never given on the waters of Long Island sound except by ferries leaving slips; the powerboats themselves are traveling so fast that giving and reacting to horn signals requires unrealistic reaction times from the operators. Powerboaters basically operate in this vicinity like automobile drivers working their way up a multi-lane highway, passing slower vessels quickly and smoothly without audible signals. I have no problem with that, I think it conforms to the logic of the situation, but the regs don't reflect the reality of the waterways at all. Powerboaters need to have the freedom to be maneuverable at their high operating speeds and should pay for that with greater responsibilities and liabilities when something goes wrong.

Rich Kokoska

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 12:55:37

There could be a lot said about this story. I can read between the lines on the posts. This crew has put the boat on the beach previously . How do you sail a boat on to the rocks (Shore) on a perfect day . Was there any electronics, GPS ? Depth sounder with depth alarm ? Sorry for there loss but it sounds like not following SOP's and lack of attention was the cause . Ok we will only sail 1.5 miles of shore and I will stay alert. He was down below doing his taxes ! The boat was close enough for her to look at the beach ? The beach that sould have been 1 1/2 miles away. Read the story and think about what is beeing said and done. I sure feel sorry for these folks but !

Oh and yes I have been aground too. It was my fault.

Edited by - on

Waterboy
Navigator

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USA
204 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 13:02:45

If I understand this incident correctly, the fundamental error leading to the accident was not correcting for magnetic declination. I think this can occur as easily in terrestrial as marine navigation, and as easily with chart and compass as with sophisticated navigation electronics. Of course, with the former one's eyes are much more likely to be diligently watching the horizon.

Wasn't it one of the recent Mars crafts that crashed because someone neglected an english/metric conversion somewhere along the line?

I hear the refrain "God's great banana skin, don't you laugh at nobody you'll let the bad luck in"...

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 14:22:55

As to the question about Mexican charts. The US Chartbooks of Mexico are excellent, certainly the rocks these folks hit were on the charts. Also there are excellent guides published by John Williamson with aerial photography of every anchorage, channel, island, and marina in Baja. I have a copy. There are always uncharted obstacles in all waters.

The depth alarm may not have saved them, but the crew should have been following a basic depth contour, and should have noticed that it was getting shallower. That's why I love my fishfinder - it has saved my butt many times.

If they were close enough to look at the beach, and it was a lee shore with big winds and waves, and they simply sailed across a bay and into a rocky point under autopilot, I think everyone knows why this accident occured.

The captain should have set waypoints every five miles (or less) with waypoints set to give a wide safety margin around all dangers. Basic coastal navigation 101.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 14:37:00

Oscar, Thanks for sharing. It's good top review these things so the group can learn.

Let he who has not hit the dock/ beach cast the first stone

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 23:17:06

Greg, I don't think the cause was declination... the Captain admits and points the cause to be the set of the course. When he punched auto, he probably visibly observed that his course would clear the headland off in the distance but forgot about factoring leeway.

For whatever reason, the Captain failed to grasp the leeway factor. A possibility here is the difference between the two auto pilot modes. Track mode as the Captain acknowledges, interfaces the gps and the auto pilot. In that mode, the pilot compensates for leeway and holds a safe rhumb line.

In the auto mode which is what he said was set, no compensation is done... and the set carried him into harms way. When he set the auto mode, he very likely set the course of the boat to clear the distant headland, but forgot about the set.

Edited by - on

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