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seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/11/2004 : 19:57:18

As of Friday 05-07-04, we're in! Couldn't get to Lake Winnipesaukee until Sunday, and then only after paying an obligatory visit to pay homage to my mother in law (took care of similar incumbent duties to the admiral beforehand). We arrived about 1300, and after loading cushions, batteries and such aboard and vacuuming the cabin at the admirals insistance, cast off. Winds about 5 kts, gusting to 8, admiral yelling cautions every time we heeled more than she thought was prudent.

I almost wept with joy.

Why is it that my C25 (standard rig, roller furl jib, fin keel) heels over more when sailing just enough off the wind to prevent luffing, yet heels less as I fall FURTHER off the wind? I expected the opposite.

Seastream

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2004 : 20:10:12

Another question...we found that water had backed up into the icebox, probably while on one of those screaming tacks. Found out when we found my cell phone floating in it (cover was off as the icebox wasn't being used). Dunno if it never happened b4 or if we never noticed b4. The icebox drain is a hose connected to a valve connected to a thru hull fitting. Should I have that valve shut while sailing, later open while docked to permit drainage or what?

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2004 : 20:28:33

"Should I have that valve shut while sailing, later open while docked..."

Yes, good practice to close all un-needed thru-hulls when sailing.

"heels over more when sailing just enough off the wind than... "

Yes, it's part of the dynamics of the "sail acting as a wing" and the different forces that the sail produces. There's quite a bit of good text on the web about same if you google around.

You can reduce heeling somewhat by trimming to depower the sails. It won't be long before you start looking for that heeling feeling... and wanting the spray flying over the bow etc.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2004 : 22:16:15

gusting to 8... that's cute. I think gusting and 8 in the same sentence is an oxymoron. I think a better sailing phrase would be puffs of 8.

Congratulations on being in, I lost my last Saturday to a similar obligation. My wife was receiving her Masters and was asked to speak to represent the post graduate class. Try getting out of that one!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2004 : 05:59:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 As of Friday 05-07-04, we're in!...Why is it that my C25 (standard rig, roller furl jib, fin keel) heels over more when sailing just enough off the wind to prevent luffing, yet heels less as I fall FURTHER off the wind? I expected the opposite.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Congratulations, Robert on the splash...it is definitely better to have a wetted surface (less drag

)

As to your question of, 'why does a sailboat heel more when sailing close to the wind?'...well, there is a whole lot of technical stuff going on involving aerodynamics, hydrodynamics, CLR, CE, righting moment, sail shape/trim, yada, yada, yada, but in a nutshell the sails extract power from the wind and higher wind speeds mean more power can be extracted which results in the boat heeling. The key to all this is the apparent wind.

The apparent wind is a combination of both true wind and the wind caused by your boat speed. When sailing perpendicular to or closer to the wind, the apparent windspeed is higher because it is a product of both boatspeed and true wind. For example, say you are motoring at 5 kts directly into an 8 kt wind. The apparent wind you feel on your face is now 13 kts (5 kt boatspeed plus 8 kt true wind). If you were to turn the boat around and motor directly downwind at 5 kts, then that 8 kt true wind blowing on your back would only feel like a 3 kt wisp because you are travelling with the wind.

So when sailing into an 8 kt wind, the sails actually feel the somewhat higher apparent wind and extract that power which causes the boat to heel more.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2004 : 06:11:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 Another question...we found that water had backed up into the icebox, probably while on one of those screaming tacks. Found out when we found my cell phone floating in it (cover was off as the icebox wasn't being used). Dunno if it never happened b4 or if we never noticed b4. The icebox drain is a hose connected to a valve connected to a thru hull fitting. Should I have that valve shut while sailing, later open while docked to permit drainage or what?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, as previously stated, all thru hulls should be closed while sailing. The reason why your ice box filled with water is because when heeled over to port, the bottom of the ice box is now below the waterline and if the valve is open, water will seek its own level and fill the ice box.

Personally, I used the sink to hold my keys, wallet, pager, phone,...etc.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:19:25

always keep the icebox valve closed. Freeze jugs of water and put them in there to keep things cool. That way there is never water to drain out. If the box gets wet, it can midew easily. Besides, we just use it mainly for dry food storage. It's pretty pitiful as a cooler.

Remember, if you boat is heeling too much (which for me is over 45 degrees) but everyone is different (in 5 gusting 8 you were probably heeling no more than 10 to 15 degrees) do this:

(1) sheet out the main a little. Heeling will reduce. In gusty winds always keep on hand on the mainsheet and be ready. To let it out far is to "dump" the main.

(2) simply fall off, or turn to a little more downwind course. You've already found out that this reduces heeling.

(3) setting the traveller leeward (downwind) will reduce heeling a little. It's like sheeting the main out.

(4) tightening up the outhaul and flattening the mainsail will reduce heeling in strong winds. Also tighten the main halyard to further flatten the main. Tighten the backstay. Boat will point higher as well.

(5) If you are still heeling too much simply reef the main. You don't need to do this unless the winds are above 12 to 15. Once properly rigged with single line reefing, you can turn downwind and reef in 1 minute. You'll be amazed at how nicely the boat sails under reefed main.

(6) If reefed and still too much, roll up some of your genoa or change to a smaller headsail. You won't point as well and it doesn't have as much affect on heeling as the main, but you should keep the main and genny balanced. You want to get to that point where you can release the tiller and the boat will just keep sailing straight ahead (for a few seconds).

Reefed main and 110% genoa and the boat is safe and fun up to 20 knots of wind - and that is a bagfull.

I've now got a main with 2 reef points and am going to get a 90% jib in case I get caught out in big winds. Sailing should be safe and fun to 30 knots with that setup BUT I am sure the ocean conditions will make it tough on anything but a downwind run to home!

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