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Longest passage on your C25

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lancej
1st Mate

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81 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/01/2004 : 16:24:36

In the planning stages of a month long cruise of Lakes Erie and Ontario. Just wondering about some of the longest cruises/passages anyone has made on thier C25. I know of someone who circumnaviagated in a C27, but have not heard of a C25 ever doing this.

Thanks,
Lance

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 16:32:42

I'm on Lake Erie also and do some cruising myself...where are you planning to cruise? East, west, north, south,...etc?

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 17:11:53

Hi Lance,

The longest passage/voyage in a C25 that I know of is the voyage of Jabberwocky. This boat sailed from Michigan, down the Mississippi River to the Gulf of Mexico. Around the Gulf Coast to Florida and then back up the East Coast of the US ICW to New York City. Up the Hudson River, Erie Canal, and through the great lakes back to Michigan. Seems like it was a two or three year trip.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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rglennchap
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 17:25:03

According to the history of Escape. The original owner had Catalina deliver to Hawaii; then he sailed Escape single handedly from Hawaii to San Diego. Much braver than I.

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 23:36:45

You write "cruises/passages". The C25 is capable of making some very long cruises--as Bill H has alluded to. "Passages" introduces quite a different concept. Others have written in this space before, but it serves repeating: the C25 is a strong, sturdy boat, but it is NOT designed for ocean passages (neither is the C27, or the C30, or most Catalinas--C36 being an exception). Someone did, apparently, circumnavigate a 27, but that does not mean it was a good idea. The C25, with its poptop, is way more vulnerable than a C27 on the open ocean. I LOVE my C25, but my plans call for venturing farther afield, so my C25 is on the block, and I am actively looking for a newer bluewater boat. Right now, I want "Wood Duck" NOT to sell, so I can get another summer out of her, then look in earnest in the Fall.

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 00:27:47

Members of the C25/C250 National Association have read “The Gulf Coast of Florida” Vol. 20, No 2 May 2002 just one of Steve Milby’s three feature articles; “Trailer Cruising” by Arlyn Stewart , Vol. 211. No. 2 May 2003 where Arlyn and his son cruised the Great Lakes in his C250, The Tripp’s article about sailing from the Chesapeake to Florida and back with their “wonder dog Pearl” and of course the last issue with Leon Sisson’s article about sailing to the Abacos Islands and back with a new kitty “Abacos”.
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/membership_registration.htm"]Membership [/url]in the association will get you a subscription to the Mainsheet that will let you read our members adventures.
Underlined words are a HOT link.

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Alan Clark
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406 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 09:15:17

The article in the Mainsheet about cruising the Catalina 25 to the Abacos,a 750 mile round trip was great,including pictures. My wife and I have sailed quite a bit and have gone down the ICW and have also done some Ocean sailing. The C25 would do well on the ICW and also on Lake Erie,having sailed there as well,be sure to watch the weather as Lake Erie is shallow and storms can create 8-10 Ft. waves. Lake Ontario is a lot deeper but is very capable place to sail. We have sailed on the Chesapeake and that is also doable but I agree with Dave I would not take the 25 on the Open Ocean to cross the Atlantic or Sail to Hawaii. She is a Good Sturdy boat. Best of Luck/Fair Winds

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lancej
1st Mate

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81 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 09:34:00

Thanks for all the responses, I have one issue with the implication that most Catalinas are not suitable for ocean passages. Certainly the 30 is. I know of several sailors who have sailed a C30 across the pond, and personally know two in the San Diego are who have sailed to Hawaii in C30s. I personally believe the C30 to be quite blue water capable. I agree the C25 is not up to a trip around the globe. I was using passage as a term to imply a leg of a cruise, that is from one port to another.

I don't really think the C27 is any more capeable than the C25, the only real benifit being that the C27 is far more commonly found with an inboard. I have sailed both and the only tangible difference I have noticed is the far better mainsheet arangement.

For dlucier, I am planning a cruise from Buffalo to the Welland, thru to Ontario, counter clockwise around Ontario via Rochester, Thousand Islands, Toronto and back to the Welland. Then counter clockwise around Erie back to Buffalo.

Thanks!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 10:50:26

Lance, this is not specifically directed at your position, you are entitled to it...

Someone recently went to Hawaii in a West Weight Potter, but one went turtle Sunday on our little lake. In the final analysis it's your call as to what you do with a boat. But please for God's sake just don't endanger your loved ones when you do it. (Oh and as a tax payer, please don't call the Coast Guard to save you from poor judgment either.)

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lancej
1st Mate

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81 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 12:20:59

I would never take my C25 on a long ocean passage, as much as I love her, she is not up to the task, I understand that. I do believe it may be a safe boat for a great lakes cruise, that is originally what I was getting at. I was just curious to hear some stories really...

My point about the C30 is seperate, as they are completly different boats, but I should save that for the C30 forum I guess, someone else brought up the C30. I know hundreds of them are sailing as costal cruisers, and many have made long ocean passages. I believe this is a safe bet, but that is me.

So no, the C25 is not sutied for a trip around the world, or even to Hawaii, I'll agree to that. The C27 and C30 discussions are for another forum, what I really wanted to hear about was personal experiences and lore about any lengthy cruises on a C25 as I prepare for mine.

Thanks

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 12:26:58

Lance: I have friends who were beaten to a relative pulp trying to bring a Catalina 36 up the left coast. They could make little headway in big seas. It is a challenging trip in any boat, but they eventually gave up and hired it delivered after getting green water on deck which leaked through ports and hatches, etc. Everything they owned was soaking wet and they were miserable for days...

I will maintain, like Frank, I think, that a Catalina CAN do the trip, given good conditions all the way (very likely on a summer trip to Hawaii)....BUT when things all go to HE double toothpicks, I want a boat that is designed and built for serious stuff. Just because some folks got fortunate and made the trip does not make it prudent. There is a WORLD of difference between off the shelf, comfortable coastal cruisers and boats that will take the snot.

Respectfully,

Gary B.
Vice Commodore
s/v Encore! #685

Just took an Ericson 27 with ob auxiliary up the Washington coast and into Victoria BC on a 200+ mile race. We made it, but watched the weather carefully. It took us 3 days, but we were becalmed for about 12 hours of it, and the winds were 'relatively" light the rest of the time....fortunate for us....

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 12:54:13

Hey guys...lighten up. Lance is only planning a Great Lakes cruise not a circumnavigation of the planet Earth.

Edited by - dlucier on 06/02/2004 12:55:48

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 13:06:48

The concers I have about Catalinas 36' and below is hull shape. They are just to flat on the bottom. This causes the boat to pound in rough seas. If your have been out in a good storm you know what Im taking about. The constuction of the boat is another concern. They are built light and economical. Rigging is light, spars are light. Just builf for coastal and inland waters. As stated before these boats have been used for all types of adventure but then again you in theory could ride a bike on the freeway. I dont think the intent of this post was to talk about crossing oceans with one just to see how far anyone had sailed one. General interest. So Ill let it go at that. Personaly my trips to the San Juan islands average 250 to 300 miles round trip. I break that up into legs of 30 to 45 mile days going up and back. We have friends in the Sound here who have sailed up both sides of Vancouver Island and on into the inland waterway. I would estimate their trips to be over 1000 miles. There are plenty of places to go that dont expose you to open ocean. Seak them out and enjoy this wonderful boat Catalina has made. See you on the water. South Puget Sound this summmer 1st week of August. Up to Alaska end of August. (On a cruise ship) LOL

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 13:16:59

Hi, I sail my C25 nearly every day and probably put over 1000 miles on per year - all near coastal Pacific ocean conditions. I am comfortable in seas to 6 feet and winds to 20. I feel safe in seas to 7 or 8 and winds to 25 (reefed main and 110 jib) but not comfortable. Of course, the comfort factor of the seas depends a lot upon the period of the waves. As long as they are long period, no problem. I can turn a little green in mixed 3 foot seas at 4 seconds. Usually, as long as there is wind, it's OK. When you start motoring without any stablizing force from the sails, the boat can get pretty bouncy. I've taken spray all the way back to the cockpit, but never had a boarding sea in the cockpit and never buried the bow and taken green water over the deck. I've been in breaking seas to 8 feet coming back over the Mission Bay bar. That was fun, we almost turned around and did it again! I always motor with the main up, sheeted tight, and the jib rolled. I've had the boat round up out of control, but never had a knockdown past 45 degrees of heel. I once almost fell off (don't sail with sandals anymore).

Last year I sailed Dana Point to Catalina twice (60 nmiles one way). With a family of 4 and 2 dogs on board! I sailed Dana Point to Newport Beach 25 miles round trip. I sailed solo Dana Point to Mission Bay (65 miles downwind).

This year I am sailing solo San Diego to Catalina, then to Santa Barbara Island, then circumnavigating Catalina, then back home. A three week trip of about 500 miles. Alone. I am so looking forward to the trip I just can't wait!

The C25 is a good boat. I make sure the hatches and windows don't leak, tighten the pop top bolts before going out, put clips on all the deck lockers so they will stay closed in a knockdown. I have sails with a double reef. All rigging is sound. All lifelines are sound (though I have two weak stanchions). I have a fin keel. Rudder is balanced with upgraded pintles and gudgeons. I have a harness and clip on to the mast for all deck work. I have an autopilot, gps, knotmeter, level meter, and fishfinder, and 2 vhf radios. I have a primary and backup anchor. The primary is always ready to be deployed. I have all lines led aft and a roller furling jib (easy to douse the jib from the cockpit). Honda 8 HP 4 stroke on upgraded motor mount with 7 gallons of fuel. Starts on the 2nd pull almost every time!

Most important thing - I stay in Mission Bay if the weather is too bad outside.

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 13:51:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 This year I am sailing solo San Diego to Catalina, then to Santa Barbara Island, then circumnavigating Catalina, then back home. A three week trip of about 500 miles. Alone. I am so looking forward to the trip I just can't wait!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Jim,
That will make a good Mainsheet story.
Keep a journal and take pictures.
[url="jg949@hotmail.com"]John Gisondi[/url]
Mainsheet Contributing Editor
C25/C250 National Association

Underlined words are a HOT link.

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Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 15:47:21

Lancej, When you get to Erie, I highly recommend the following destinations,Erie Pa Yacht Club,free transient dockage if you are ILYA-allegedly the best yacht club on the great lakes, Leamington, Canada, Beautiful municipal marina,Put in bay (South Bass Island), tons o fun. Kellys island, Kellys seaway marina-more sedate. You will have a great time..and again be aware of the weather. Fair winds

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TomA
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 16:33:05

Jim, You mention that your primary anchor is always ready to be deployed.

I have a bow roller and danforth anchor. I have seen other references on this forum for quick deployment, but I remain unsure of the best way to rig the anchor while sailing.

I would appreciate your advice.

Thanks.

Tom

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 20:45:35

This has turned into a great thread. We C25 sailors more than make up in enthusiasm for our boats and sailing what we lack in capital. It is possible to row across the Atlantic, to drift across in the Gulf Stream on anything that floats. But here in Boston we often hear stories of people who set out in apparently seaworthy boats and are never heard from again (one this past fall in a 65-footer). Every sailboat is a compromise. Sailing the oceans requires different compromises than sailing lakes or within a half-day's sail of the coast. Those compromises are changing, to be sure. Ocean-going ("bluewater") boats are being designed as much for speed today as they are for stability. The use of kevlar and other materials makes it possible to make a light boat that can avoid the worst of weather and that is still strong enough to survive a knockdown. But most Catalinas and Hunters and Beneteaus are canoe-hulled, fin-keeled boats with light rigging that are very capable of crossing an ocean in fair weather, but would likely not survive a real ocean storm. And then there's the catamaran, or the trimaran, able to outrun weather, able to say afloat when capsized, generally able to survive a holing from an unseen floating object. Expensive, yes, but maybe the real sailboat of the future for the world's oceans...

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 23:18:54

Responding to bits and pieces of an interesting thread.

"...Catalinas--C36 being an exception..."
I thought the S&S designed 38 was supposed to be the best of the lot for blue water?

"... beaten to a relative pulp trying to bring a Catalina 36 up the left coast. They could make little headway in big seas."
Heh... this happens to the 50 and 60 footers too... a spring or summer passage north = a beating.
They pull into Humboldt Bay quite often... for repairs after coming round Cape Mendocino.

"Most important thing - I stay in Mission Bay if the weather is too bad outside."
Yup... single most important piece of sailing gear is located between your shoulders.

I think in the right season, on the right forecast, the trip from California to Hawaii is as 'safe' a bet as you can get for an ocean passage in a 'small' boat. Doing it with a C25 Fin/Wing would take some cojones, but with preparation, planning, some boat mods... quite doable. Folks have done far more with less. Really a great idea? No.

Coming back from Hawaii is a very different matter. The northing you need to make to beat the Pacific High makes for a very long passage which leaves you exposed for way too long. It also takes you into the North Pacific... not a place for a small boat. I'm surprised the fellow had his C25 shipped to Hawaii to sail back... Usually it's the other way around.

Have the latest Latitude 38 in hand... will read about the gent taking his Potter 19 on the return trip south from Glacier Bay Alaska to San Francisco.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2004 : 07:40:09

Doug, if you'll look at the hull shape on the Volvo and Mumm boats designed for circumnavigation, you'll see they're big dinghies just like the Catalinas. Of course, they DO have eight to twelve foot keels with big bulbs on the end, but the hulls are pretty flat. They're also designed for running, not reaching, which does make a difference.

Nevertheless, if I ever lost my marbles and decided to do serious long distance bluewater cruising, I would want a full (or nearly so) keeled boat, so your larger point is well taken.

It's important for us all to remember that we love Catalinas because they do well and economically what they're designed to do: in the words of Frank Butler, "provide the most boat for the money." I am sure there are Catalinas that can and have sailed around the world (in addition to that heavily-reinforced/modified C27). That's not primarily what they're designed to do, and what they do -- provide safe, comfortable, economical, largely coastal cruising -- they do incredibly well.

To answer the original question (let's see, it must be here somewhere. . . . ), I've sailed almost the length of the Chesapeake Bay over a two week period. Longest legs were about ten hours/50 miles (under power on hot, miserable, windless days).

Brooke

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Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2004 : 13:08:56

We had another interesting thread on this a couple of months ago in which I tried to list off the "objective" factors about the design of the C25 that don't meet the usual standards for open-ocean cruising, but everyone on this thread knows all that stuff and the point above was really key: the most important piece of sailing equipment is between your shoulders.

Ironically the new mathematical theory of "killer wave" formation, which shows that waves of all sizes can and must merge their energies when encountering each other, carries the unsettling implication that NO VESSEL OF ANY SIZE CAN CONSIDER ITSELF SAFE by virtue of its type or design on the open ocean...

Rich Kokoska

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2004 : 13:20:34

We've sailed from Cleveland up to Lake St. Clair once and go to the Erie Islands about once a year. When cruising in the Bahamas a few years ago, there was a C-25 anchored off of Hawks Bill Cay, I only talked with him for a minute, (yelled) as we were anchored a ways away, but he made the crossing. The boat had about 10 jerry cans tied to the life lines, with what I would assume to be fuel.

If you cruise past Cleveland, be sure to stop in at Edgewater Yacht Club. If your and I-LYA member dockage is cheap and the food is great.

dw

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Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2004 : 16:26:52

I think of a passage as a non-stop session.

My longest was probably about 400 miles during a Great Lakes Singlehanded challange race. The point to point distance is about 335 miles, Chicago to Mackanac Island, but the wind never seems to allow a straight shot. The trip took around 85 hours. I came in dead last, but I still enjoyed the trip.

My return crew couldn't make it, so the return trip was also single handed. I didn't have to go back to Chicago, only to Sheboygan, but I was headed upwind most of the time so it was probably another 350 miles or so. With a south wind on Lake Michigan I was heading into it and tacking for two days. It's not as bad as it sounds though, with the lake 85 miles wide I would tack once every 12 hours.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2004 : 10:42:39

TomA - I cut a small hole in the forward edge of the anchor hatch on my 78. This lets the chain run out while the hatch is locked closed. The chain runs through the bow roller and the pin goes through it and holds it in place. The danforth is hung from the pulpit.

I think its important to be able to anchor quickly in case of trouble.

This arrangement does not compromise sailing or docking.

Edited by - on

Steve Shetter
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2004 : 11:09:07

When you get around the Thousand Islands, I recommend that you visit the Antique boat Museum (all power boats, but they are beautiful). I also recommend a visit to Boldt Castle. It's a very romantic story, but the technology for the day amazed me.

Let us know how you make out.

Fair winds and calm seas,

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2004 : 02:10:52

Lance,

You asked a great question that spawned some great input from experienced skippers. I've sailed (port hopped) on Lake Michigan for a week each of the past 3 summers. This summer I'm crossing from St. Joseph, MI to Racine, WI. Of course we'll have to make the return trip as well. The "passage" is about 85 miles each way.

This will truly be an adventure for us since we usually do 25-35 mile hops to safe harbors for the night. Luckily, on this trip there will be another 25 footer making the trip with me.

My mantra will either be; "There is safety in numbers", "Misery loves company" or "Who's stupid idea was this?"

I have two plaques mounted on my bulkhead. One reads: "Until you have the courage to lose sight of land, you will not know the terror of being forever lost at sea!" And the other reads: "Within this boat lies a disease for which there is no cure." The first one may be the cure for the latter!

Thanks to all who contribute to these discussions. I've gained great knowledge about my C-25 and it's capabilities here.

Fair Winds!

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