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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts
Response Posted - 07/22/2004 :  09:45:39  Show Profile  Visit Arlyn Stewart's Homepage
Dave Bristle's point I think was justified, here is why.

The 250 suffers a lot of leeway on a windward leg in a breeze. Its heel must be kept in check or it actually lifts to leeward so its ability to carry sail is greatly reduced and its effective windward track is greatly compromised compared to light air.

And, in a breeze where the C25 and 250 can both easily attain their respective hull speeds on off wind legs, there is little advantage to either. This leaves the windward leg more important and with an advantage to the c25. I have little to no doubt that in strong air, a c25 will prevail over a 250.

Congrats to all who raced and enjoyed the time together. Much praise to Gary and all the staff for their efforts. Reading the reports is most interesting and enjoyable.

This is not conjecture...see the results and notes of earlier nationals where both strong and light airs were experienced. It should have been no surprize to anyone that a tall rig 250 did so well in light air... they had proven that several years ago.


Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 07/22/2004 09:51:34
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Tony Partain
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts
Response Posted - 07/22/2004 :  11:25:33  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have little to no doubt that in strong air, a c25 will prevail over a 250.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You are correct sir!
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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2004 :  11:56:40  Show Profile
It may well be that the 250 TR would be at some disadvantage in big air, but it surely was not "proved" at the 2004 regatta. That was the point I was trying to make. The best air we had in race 5 saw Trading Time do even better than in the drifters.

On another note, Ray, any idea when the photos might be posted? I am sure there are lots of folks, including me, who would love to see them....and order prints....

Gary B.
Commodore of Vice
Fleet 94 Captain
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR
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Tony Partain
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2004 :  14:14:39  Show Profile
I seems to me that we needed to race for a month on the Columbia and we would have all of the information and FUN that we could handle. I am having a very hard time trying to work. All I want to do is SAIL!!!
We have our boat back on Elk Lake and boy is it relaxing!!! It's five o'clock somewhere.
Edited by - Tony Partain on 07/23/2004 16:19:01
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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2004 :  15:41:12  Show Profile
Actually Gary, if you look at the deltas between Tony and the second 250, and between Tony and Tybreaker, his smallest time difference was in Race 5. He beat us by only 33 seconds and the 250 by 5.06. In the drifters his delta went from approx. 6 minutes to 20 mins over the 250 and from 2.39 to 11.21 over us.
I think this probably proves what Tony said earlier, that in good wind a C25 will beat a C250.
Derek
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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2004 :  17:19:10  Show Profile
Derek,

I looked at the winning C25 SR elapsed time vs Trading Time in all six races (yes, I know they started 5 minutes later, so it's not a perfect comparison). Tony's BEST time differential against the C25 SR fleet was in Race 5 (the best air, but chutes were not an advantage 'cuz it was a reach)....although it could be argued that he did the best in the "shortest" races!

Race 1 C25 winning time 119.36 vs T.T 120.40.
Race 2: C25: 44.01 vs T.T 48.48
Race 3: C25: 51.45 vs T.T 58:00
Race 4: T.T. 27:44 vs C25 29:49
Race 5: T.T. 21:38 vs C25 (JAM) 24:57
Race 6: C25 32:31 vs T.T. 34:33

Gary B.
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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts
Response Posted - 07/23/2004 :  18:35:22  Show Profile
Gary - I didn't calculate the SR's against Tony's TR. I figured that it was a better comparison to compare his TR against a C25 TR (especially in view of the drifter conditions).
Derek
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.