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NEED A TALL RIG DIMENSION

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/27/2004 : 08:44:01

Does anyone have a tall rig that they could measure the following dimension: from the mast tabernackle pivot pin to the centerline of the spreaders. The owners manual rig illustration does not give this dimension. I need to know how far aft of the transom I need to make a crutch, that it will clear the spreaders as the mast comes down.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25WK/TR Mk. IV #5857 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

"You might get there faster in a powerboat, but in a sailboat, you're already there"

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2004 : 08:57:09

Good morning Larry,

I don't understand the need for the measurement you request but I'll be at the boat this am and will run a metal tape to the spreaders and let you know what it is.

Val on Calista # 3936
Patchogue,N.Y.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2004 : 16:56:51

Me thinks you worry too much. This is my std rig and your mast is only 2 ft taller, assuming the spreaders are one foot higher there is no issue with the crutch on the transom as my mast-up is.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2004 : 08:41:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 This is my std rig and your mast is only 2 ft taller, assuming the spreaders are one foot higher there is no issue with the crutch on the transom as my mast-up is.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On the Tall Rig, you can't use the conventional "Mast Up" crutch that Frank's boat has, because the spreaders land behind the roller on the crutch. In order to slide the mast forward to trailering position once it is down, the whole mast has to be lifted up and over the side plates on the Mast-Up, an almost-impossible task for a single person on the Tall Rig, which uses a MUCH heavier spar than the SR's mast. I think the spreaders are at least two feet higher from the mast step than on the standard rig. Anyway, I need the measurement to design and fabricate a crutch that will support the mast from a position behind the spreaders, which means it will have to hang off of the transom at least two feet aft of the rudder gudgeons. Doing the mast raising evolution on the Tall Rig requires considerably more effort than on my old C-25 SR/SK.

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2004 : 11:26:51

Your right Larry the spreaders are just aft of the transom for the tall rig but notice Frank's mast crutch doesn't have big shoulders on it. You would likely be able to roll the mast, spreaders and all right over the top of it with out a problem. I would be a little concerned about building a crutch that attached to the gungeons that hung two feet aft of the transom. Seems like an enormous amount of stress. The mast crutch I built was a simple 2 x 4 with a roller and guide hooked onto the gungeon and tied off on the stern pulpit. I just got used to lifting the spreaders over the guide.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2004 : 13:29:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rclift:
You would likely be able to roll the mast, spreaders and all right over the top of it with out a problem.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's risky, especially when single handed. If the mast crutch doesn't have side plates to keep the mast confined, it could fall right off the side of the roller while you are trying to slide it forward to trailering position, and crash down hard on the stern pulpit. This certainly wouldn't do the pulpit any good, and could bend the mast. In extreme cases, I suppose the mast could slide completely off the edge of the pulpit and fall all the way to the parking lot, which would probably bend it beyond repair, or at least cause a lot of damage to the spreaders or masthead casting. I rarely have help available when doing a mast raising, so the whole process, and the mast raising equipment, has to be as fail-safe as possible for single-handed operation.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I would be a little concerned about building a crutch that attached to the gungeons that hung two feet aft of the transom. Seems like an enormous amount of stress.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The crutch I am designing will NOT attach to the gudgeons, it will be supported off of the transom in some other way that I have not figured out yet. I don't even like the conventional Mast-Up that they sell at marine stores, because I have seen one case where the mast got stuck while the crew was sliding it, and the upper gudgeon was damaged from the excessive bending load.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The mast crutch I built was a simple 2 x 4 with a roller and guide hooked onto the gungeon and tied off on the stern pulpit. I just got used to lifting the spreaders over the guide.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The mast crutch I have from my old boat is home made, like yours, and worked fine on #1205, which was a standard rig C-25. But on the new boat, the spreaders land about a foot behind the crutch roller, and I am not strong enough to lift this (much heavier) mast over the crutch's side plates. Remember that the Tall Rig C-25 mast is actually a C-27 mast, and as such is not only 2' taller than standard, but is also 1/2" wider and 1/2" longer in cross-section (and maybe even a slightly heavier wall thickness). I guesstimate that the mast on my new boat, #5857, weighs at least 30 to 40 pounds more than the mast on #1205 did. It is simply not possible for me to lift it over an obstruction - the one time I tried, I lost control of it and the masthead banged down hard enough on the parking lot to break the windex. That's the other problem with the Tall Rig - it is very top heavy when sitting on a standard mast crutch, especially if a furler is installed, and you have to exert about 20# of downforce on the mast step to keep it from tipping up and hitting you in the face while trying to insert the pin into the tabernackle. This is a dangerous condition in that you can't let go of the mast for even a split second until the pin is inserted. What happens if you drop the pin and it rolls too far away to pick it up? For safe single-handed operation, the mast crutch has to be far enough aft so that the mast is never top-heavy in any position you might have it in.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2004 : 14:07:56

... Remember that the Tall Rig C-25 mast is actually a C-27 mast ... - Larry

Hi Larry,

Last December you wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have heard somewhere that the C-25TR mast is actually the same extrusion and even the same part number, as the C-27 mast. Can anyone confirm this?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To which Steve Milby replied:

This is a hard rumor to quash. Somebody started this rumor in the past and people hear it and repeat it because it sounds plausible, but, the last time it came up, I looked at the masts of older and newer models of standard rig and tall rig C-27s, and compared them with standard and tall rig C-25s, and they aren't even close. The C-27 mast is much beefier than any version of C-25 mast.

Here is a link to that thread: [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5191&SearchTerms=C-27+mast"]Installing a longer boom[/url]

So, which is correct?

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