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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel Winch Misbehaving, Fixable?

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bsmudd
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/23/2004 : 12:18:20

On a recent 20 minute out-and-back should-have-known-better, Chimera hit some mud and my friend started cranking the keel winch furiously (I did tell him to). I believe he might have cranked it the wrong way, slacking the cable to the point that there was no tension holding the cable to the winch correctly.

When I jumped on the winch, it pulled the keel up, but the brake mechanism would not lock out, and I now need to keep a hand on the winch (with very little effort needed) to keep the keel from descending on its own.

I am sure a new winch is the best option, and I'll probably do that, but is there a simple way to fix the current winch, which has worked great until now?

- B.S. Mudd -
on the Chimera

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 13:21:56

The winch is very simple to dismantle.. there are only a few moving parts in there, and really very little to go wrong. I've cleaned, painted and otherwise 'reconditioned' mine.

I'm thinking you might have some 'gunk' on the brake disks. (that make the thing work)

If you send me an email address I can PM some photos if you'd like.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 13:40:48

Left to lower, right to raise. My son cranked the keel up the wrong way last year, and the brake wouldn't hold. Try cranking it the other way and see what happens.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 14:07:44

Brooke wrote: <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Left to lower, right to raise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

See, that's why I come here. I learn something new almost every time I log in. I'm tattooing "Left to Lower, Right to Raise" on my forehead, just below "When in doubt, throw the anchor out."

Thanks Brooke.

Steve

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 16:14:41

Just make sure when you throw the anchor out that it's still tied to the boat.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 18:20:10

Sorry, forehead's not that big.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 20:23:46

Don't all winches wrap clockwise?

Edited by - on

bsmudd
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 13:20:23

Does anyone know of any design drawings (more detailed than the Catalina Direct Owner's Handbook) for the swing keel housing and the keel winch itself?

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Uncas
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 17:22:36

I have a 1980 C-25 and I notice that the drum on my winch is rusting away. Every time I crank up my keel there are chunks of rust liberated from the barrel of the winch. It is a Fulton winch and I have visited their website.They have similar winches but not the exact one. I don't trust the integrity of the drum with all that weight on it and plan to replace it this winter. I would like to replace the winch but I am not sure that I can get the same type of fitting to accomodate the winch handle or a removable handle that will clear my steps while cranking. Has anyone else either rebuilt one of these or replaced it? If so can you just buy new parts. Is a replacement winch available?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 07:20:25

catalinadirect.com

They have very little listed on their site, call them, they have it and a manual that shows you everything you ever needed to know or hoped to buy.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 07:43:45

Uncas, I had exactly the same issue with my winch. Salt water corrodes the drum, and there's really not much you can do about it. Mine did last seventeen years, however. Contact Catalina Direct and order a new winch. They have the exact model you need.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Uncas
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 11:21:09

fhopper & Brook thanks much! fhopper ...that's the one! I believe it will be a pretty easy - straight forward replacement job. Once again thanks for the help

Uncas

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 14:37:24

There is a wood wedge uder the winch which is integral to the alignment of the winch, don't loose it, use it.

Edited by - on

JoergK
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 15:29:57

Uncas, when you order the new winch don't order the handle. The old one fits.

Edited by - on

Uncas
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2004 : 15:58:16

JeorgK,
Thanks for the tip. I did anyway. Over the years I and "certain crew members" have been shall we say, a bit sloppy in keeping the handle tight up against the handle spindle (I don't know what you callit but I think you know what I mean)under the step. This has caused the ends of the channel in the handle where the spindle fits to wear. Now when I am cranking my keel up it has a tendancy to loose it's grip and when the tension is released from the winch under the load, the keel falls only a fraction of an inch but you get a loud Boom. If you are carefull and put a good amount of pressure against the winch handle you can prevent this, but "certain members of my crew" have a hard time grasping this concept and continue to "bang the winch" which wears the handle even more. Thanks for the info anyway I spent the big buck and bought the whole enchilada!
By the way great picture! I just replaced my keel retraction cable and I am familiar with the view! Plus that's the skippers berth under there and that makes it even more familiar.

Uncas

Edited by - on

JoergK
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2004 : 17:24:03

Frank, you seem to also be familiar with winch work. I had the sh..est time putting the washers and nuts back on the three bolts which affix the winch to the ladder (I couldn't get the ladder off because some of the screws for the ladder were immovable) - having to work "upwards" and with almost no room for the fingers to get to the bolts through the winch. For my (if I have to do it again) and maybe for Uncas' sake, is there a better way to get the nuts unto the bolts?

Edited by - on

bsmudd
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2004 : 13:48:56

OK, I just got a new winch (without handle) from CD. There is no male piece to match the female on the old winch handle, and the instructions show a permanently mounted winch handle, rather than the removable one I'm used to. Do I need to take the male handle connection from the old winch and put it on the new one?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2004 : 14:01:42

My new winch was there already, I only replaced the cable and ball, can't help tou.

Edited by - on

JoergK
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2004 : 15:57:10

B.S. - same with me when I got a new winch last year. I used the old coupling.

Edited by - on

bsmudd
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 12:48:27

Joergk- That sounds good.

Out of curiousity, if I did buy the handle from CD, would they send a new coupling along with it?

Edited by - on

JoergK
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 16:28:55

Don't remember. But see my post on another thread - re winch. My new handle doesn't fit the new winch as good as the old handle (which I continue to use). So I put it aside as a spare, should I ever throw the handle at one of those "cigarette" boats that tries to play chicken with me.

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 19:03:48

While you're in there upgrading winch parts, think about replacing the black rubber cable tube if it looks even remotely in need. Also make sure it's double clamped and retighten each season before putting in. Imagine what would happen if this tube failed while out on the water. (It's below the water line). Fair winds. Todd Frye

Edited by - on

bsmudd
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2004 : 10:02:39

Joerg, when I finally got the old coupling off the old winch, the bolt threads do not match the new winch bolt. Same for you?

Looks like I might have to talk to Catalina Direct. To me it seems like this part should be included or CD could be a little clearer about it on the website (http://catalinadirect.com/keel%20winch%20c-25.html) and catalogue

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2004 : 10:19:25

After I replaced my winch last year and couldn't get the coupling off the old one, CD sent me a new coupling/adapter. It has an allen screw to hold it on the winch shaft. Mudd, I can't picture what threads you're referring to.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2004 : 10:37:32

I got my winch from Catalina and have had no problems with it. I did two things to improve the system. The first was to take a chisel and secure the allen screws on the new male fitting, ( I found it worked loose). Second, I put a locking nut on the little tang bolt that locks the teeth on the winch. This also worked loose.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2004 : 10:37:48

'I can't picture what threads you're referring to.'

There are 'lead' (lead as in leader) threads on the shaft that are part of the mechanism that tightens/loosens the brake disks during operation.

Edited by - on

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