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Is a C25 the Right Boat for Me?

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Sea Wolf
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/27/2004 : 05:26:20

I'm a new sailor about to purchase my first boat. I'm looking for a boat I can trailer around CA and up to WA and Canada. But mostly I'll be sailing near home in and around Morro Bay up toward San Simeon and maybe occasionally down toward Pismo; also to and from the Channel Islands. I'd also like to do some sailing in the San Francisco Bay.

Is a C-25 practical for these waters?

Would one keel configuration be preferable over another? I will be doing mostly ramp launching so a shallow enough draft is needed, but as much stability as I can get is desirable along the Central Coast and SF Bay.

Thanks for any input

Edited by - Sea Wolf on 08/27/2004 05:28:35

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 06:09:40

Make sure you get a trailer with a tongue extension

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:11:00

If you get a wing keel I guess a tounge extension would help. I have a fin keel and I attach a 30 foot tow strap and disconnect. This way the truck doesn't touch the water. For trailering the c25 is kind of heavy adn you will need a strong and heavy truck, we have a 1 ton but a 3/4 ton would do. I have done more trips with our club than most of the smaller easier to tow boats so it can be done, you just have to plan it out a little better.
For the areas you are going to sail in I think a keel boat would be better than a water balast, but thats my opinion. It is more to tow but worth it.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:05:30

Hi Wolf... Have you been lurking here for a while, or have you tried the Search function to look for threads on trailers, launching, keels, etc.? There's a lot here from previous discussions.

The wing and swing keels on the C-25 are generally the choices for trailering, with the advantage (and higher cost) going to the Wing. There's only a couple of inches difference for launching and retrieving, and while the wing is shallower under sail, folks here seem pleased with its stability. (It has a lot of lead down low). The swing keel requires inspection and maintenance--especially in salt water. 1500 lbs. is a lot of cast iron to pivot and hoist with a cable and winch. Catalina only offered the wing in the later years of the C-25, although a number of swing keel owners have retrofitted wings. But generally, the wing commands the highest price--usually over $10K.

Either way, you're talking about a 5000#+ boat that becomes a 7000#+ package behind your tow vehicle, which needs some weight and wheelbase as well as power to handle it safely. But for the sailing you're interested in, I don't think you want much less boat. I won't offer any opinions on the C-250 Water Ballast model for those venues, except to say it gives you the most cruising boat for the trailing weight, launchability, and ease of rigging. But it's also newer and more $$.

One more thing--how are you going about learning how to sail, navigate, and cruise? There's a lot to learn, and most of us here are still learning it.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/27/2004 10:08:27

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:15:32

"Is a C-25 practical for these waters?"

Absolutely. IMHO There may be no better boat for your intended usage.

"Would one keel configuration be preferable over another? "

Yes, the wing is the most preferred configuration... a swing will do, but requires regular (annual) inspection/maintenance on the hinge, cable and winch. The swing keel itself should be epoxy coated for salt water service.

IMHO follows:
As has been mentioned, you'll need a full-size 3/4 ton pickup for safe towing. With the price of fuel nowdays, a diesel engine is highly desirable if not essential. (With my diesel I get close to 14mpg when towing). A galvanized trailer is HIGHLY desirable, but may be hard to find. Corrosion resistant galvanized brakes a must. Stainless disks a plus. An extension tongue is a must for frequent ramp launching. Makes sure the trailer has heavy-duty trailer service tires!

Edited by - on

Sea Wolf
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 11:22:43

Thanks for all the input so far. I'll definitely do some more homework on the keel situation including searching here for as many threads as I can find now that I know what sort of debate to look for. The choice may come down to what's available to me. I have a background in mechanical engineering, so I'm not afraid to retrofit in time if I need some upgrades.

My understanding, with Hunters for example, is that the water ballast is somewhat less desirable for coastal cruising in the kind of seas around the Central Coast and northward. Is this true of C250's as well?

How am I learning to sail?

Good question. There are a couple of sailing schools in my area that I'm looking into. The sailors I know tell me training and schooling is a must. I've been devouring books on the subject including the ASA's manual. I'm on my 4th book on sailing fundamentals at this point. I have a fairly good handle on the basics at least and my early sailing will strictly be planned according to smooth weather forecasts. Fortunately, around here most of the year the weather is very consistent. The local weatherman has an easy job.

Though it doesn't begin to qualify me for open seas in a real boat, I have had a little experience "skippering" a cat-rigged small catamaran in ultra-smooth conditions; enough to catch the bug and have some idea of what to expect.

I haven't gotten to navigation yet, but I have experience with GPS and complex mapping, so I don't expect to have trouble with charts. Effectively getting a boat from A to B on the map over greater distances than a mile, I'll have to learn.

Having a decent idea of what's involved, I had planned to a boat under motor out to an uncrowded calm nearby lake to break in; running drills from the ASA guide to familiarize myself with handling before I get anywhere near the coastal waters. Which brings up another question that's been on my mind, what are good learning conditions... that is what kind of wind speed is enough but not too much for learning to handle a C-25?

Any books or advice on going about learning would be great as well as any other comments about C-25's in the California coastal waters or the waters of the Central Coast in particular if not the SF Bay (which I know is a huge subject in iteself).

I will probably have whatever boat I get serious about surveyed, but as I browse, maybe any advice on things to look for when buying might be helpful too.

Thanks again.

Edited by - Sea Wolf on 08/29/2004 15:46:24

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 11:51:27

I keep my swing keel C25 in the Columbia River, but have trailered it, nearly yearly, to the San Juans, as well as big lakes inland. It is a nearly PERFECT boat for me...and the keel maintenance has not been the issue some would have you believe, although it does take an hour or so to replace the cable every few years! Gee......

My feeling might be a bit different if my boat LIVED in salt, but occasional trips to the sea, followed by fresh water baths, has not been an issue for the swinger, which has trailering- as well as shallow water-getting off sand bars-type advantages.

I think a survey is a good idea, especially if the investment is substantial, although on a bargain boat I would do the survey myself (but I have some experience with these boats...having bought mine the first time in 1983). After having a 30'er, I went back and bought the trailerable 25 BACK....The issues include blisters( like any boat)....rigging quality/upgrades?(like any older boat), water/rot in the deck core (as in nearly any boat), and overall maintenance, appearance, sails and electronics issues that can cost money after the purchase.....and auxiliary/bracket issues, all of which have been addressed on this forum ad nauseum.

BTW: I have been out for over 3 weeks in my boat, and regularly cruise with my family of 4. It is a little like "camper" camping, and one must get off the boat and play on land....but it has been entirely adequate. I think I have as much fun, or more, with less maintenance, than the big boys! Also, (IMHO again) water ballast is not for me, personally, but I am Old School....where keeping water OUT of the boat was a basic principle.

Gary B.
Vice Commodore
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

P.S. Ramp launching in salt is REALLY hard on trailers...make sure you go galvanized, and maybe SS brakes?, or watch a painted trailer disintegrate before your eyes....and they are spendy to replace! I sling my boat in and out of salt, but ramp launch in fresh...it is a painted EZLoader and I stopped the salt-ramp bit after just a couple of dips....no more!

Edited by - Gary B. on 08/27/2004 11:54:46

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 11:53:50

Wolf,

The area you are planning to sail in is considered by many to be "Off Shore", especially out to the islands.

Maybe I am just a woos, but one of the reasons I keep my boat on SF Bay instead of at Pillar Point Harbor a mile away from my house in Half Moon Bay is because I do not consider the C25 a true blue-water boat. In the last five years I have learned that SF Bay itself can be a scary place in a small boat. Because I live 200 yards from the beach I can seen how quickly the conditions change on the water. There is a reason that our little fishing fleet that ports at Pillar Point suffers more than two fatalities every year with lost boats and injuries at sea. A highschool mate of my daughter's, his father and a deck hand were lost crabbing a few years ago in a sound boat, no more than 20 miles out. Just disappeared, with no wreckage. Freighter? Tanker? Submarine? Conditions were moderate to Force 4, cloudy.

My Buddy Paul and I plan to sail to Half Moon Bay sometime, in company, Hey Jude and Sparky (both fin keels), and after thorough planning. It is only about 40 miles, but we will treat it like making a passage because of the transition from Bay-sailing to Ocean-Sailing at the Golden Gate.

This is quite different than when we just "go sailing" on the Bay.

If I planned to frequently sail the coast, as far north and south as you do, I would plan to move up to a C30, with good radar and a well maintained engine. I am sure others of our group disagree with me and allowing for differing levels of experience and preparation of the boat, probably would not hesitate taking a C25 anywhere.

If you do plan to be out on the deep blue, I recommend you go with a wing or fin keel. You will remove one potential mechanical thing that can cause problems.

I would like to hear from our brothers that routinely sail offshore and their opinions.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay (Brisbane Marina)

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:12:14

I wsould recommend you read -- and heed -- "First You have to Row a Little Boat," by Richard Bode (Warner Books). I am very thankful I started sailing in Sunfish and then first owned a Mobjack (17 foot open sailing dinghy). Sailing in tippy little boats made me a much better sailor than I would have been had I started in a C25 or equivalent (much less a C30 or the like).

Don't worry about celestial navigation and long cruises for a while. Stop reading books as a substitute for getting out on the water. Enroll in sailing classes; find a friend with a little boat; at worst, buy or borrow a Sunfish or something that gives you instant (and sometimes very wet) feedback. When you can gybe without capsizing or decapitating crew; when you can luff up to a dock without a motor; when you decide you so love sailing, from doing it regularly, that you're willing to spend thousands of dollars on a boat and hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars per year on maintenance and fees; when you're prepared to spend many hours every year varnishing, cleaning, painting, scrubbing, and otherwise maintaining, then look for the right cruising boat.

And a C25 is a great place to look then.

Brooke

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:21:52

Your best all-around choice, if you can find one for sale, is an '88-'90 C-25 WK, with a hull number between 5803 and 6031. These 228 boats represent the so-called "Catalina 25 Mark IV", the final and best design version. What sets them apart is a redesign of the interior liner with a lowered floor that gives 4"~5" more headroom inside the cabin than the earlier boats. Of course, they command a higher price, but you can usually find one for under $12000 in mid-winter when boat prices are lowest. As for the trailer, here's what to look for:
1. Galvanized, not painted. Painted trailers used regularly in salt water require sandblasting and re-painting every 4 or 5 years ($1000 cost), and a complete rebuild of the brakes, at $150 per wheel, every 12 to 18 months.
2. Heavy duty coupler, DICO #10 or equivalent.
3. Heavy duty frame side rails made of 6" channel iron with 5" crossmembers. Medium duty trailers have 5" side rails with 4" cross members.
4. Heavy duty 15" 6-lug wheels with 12" brakes and Load Range "D" tires. If the the wheels are 5-lug with 14" tires on 10" brakes, it is a medium duty trailer.
5. Heavy duty 5200# capacity Axle tubes, size 3" x 2". If the axles are 2" x 2", it is a medium duty trailer.

If you are looking at a boat that does not come with a trailer, keep in mind that used trailers for sale that are big enough and heavy-duty enough to carry a Catalina 25 are as rare as snow in the Sahara desert. You will likely end up having to buy a new trailer, and these cost not less than $7800 (for a 10,000# capacity, galvanized, with roller bunks). Be sure to factor in this cost when negotiating price. For $16000, a typical price, you should get a Catalina 25 Mk. IV, reasonably well equipped, with sails and all rigging in good shape, a 4-stroke Honda or Yamaha outboard in good running condition, and a heavy-duty trailer, also in good condition with a recent brake and bearing replacement. At the other end of the price spectrum, you can find older Catalina 25 swing keel boats also with a trailer, for $5000 to $9000, but keep in mind that keeping a swinger in salt water will require more frequent replacement of the keel winch, cable, and turning ball, and may involve you in boring out the keel pivot hole and installing Catalina's bronze bushing repair kit if the keel is very rusty and the pivot hole has elongated from corrosion. This repair can in theory be done by anyone with average mechanical skills, but handling the 1500# keel once it is unbolted from the pivot requires lifting equipment that most people don't have in their garage. So IMHO, the keel pivot bore-out-and-bushing is a repair best left to a boatyard, and that can be somewhat expensive. Good luck in your search!

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:46:28

I'm in the market for a C25, probably a swing keel. I've monitored this site with keen interest and want to thank all you seasoned C25ers for your considered and detailed responses, and also thank the other newbies for asking the questions that have been burning in my newbie brain ever since I decided to move up to a dry boat.(I've windsurfed & hobied & lasered) and As you can probably appreciate, a newbie, or perhaps a 'notquiteyetie' like myself,gets a different story here, than from the yacht broker or determined seller. My quest for a trailerable sailboat (I live in Calgary Alberta) means I am in the market for a trailer as much as a boat. The yacht brokers I've communicated with are unresponsive to my requests for detailed trailer info.
Thanks again.
And one more thing, since I've identified myself as newbie once removed, what the hell is IMHO?

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 13:03:05

... And one more thing, since I've identified myself as newbie once removed, what the hell is IMHO? - Stampeder

Hi Mike,

"IMHO" stands for "in my humble opinion" ... not that we're all that humble, but it sometimes takes the edge off.

Welcome to the group!

Edited by - on

Sea Wolf
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 15:24:01

I appreciate the input especially on the trailer situation and the issue of sailing along the Central Coast with minimal experience. I've paid particular attention to the shorecast for some time now and from what I can tell the conditions have been rather benign for at least a couple months. Daily winds have generally been 10 knots, occasionally up to 20 knots. Swells have been generally 2 to 3 feet, but some days up to 5 feet. There is typically a windy season in spring and early summer where the winds are much gustier, but otherwise, even in winter, the weather is fairly consistent. From what I've observed and read of the SF Bay, it seems that winds on the Bay are often considerably gustier on a regular basis than what I've been observing here and the shallowness of the bay, the tide, and the traffic all present some problems that I think may be less an issue on the Central Coast. For whatever that may be worth.

That is not to say that the conditions are constant all along the coast. North of Morro Bay conditions become harsher I believe approaching San Simeon and Big Sur, probably more like the waters outside of the Golden Gate and down through Monterey. Approaching Pt. Conception to the south I know there are some dicier conditions too. There are quite a few boat wrecks around the point caused by boats getting too close to shore, unable to escape particular currents I believe. But between Cayucous and Pt. Sal I think there is a large zone of amiable conditions. I'd be glad to hear from anybody with first hand experience in this area. I know many fisherman travel in this area in motorized skiffs 15' and less and go out as far as 20 miles or more for Tuna. But those guys also know well what they're doing. I'm not as familiar with the Channel Islands area, but Santa Cruz Island (the closest) is about 25 miles off the coast from Oxnard, so it's farther than it looks from shore. I know the conditions outside of Santa Barbara are generally consistent and fairly mild as well and there are a lot of Catalinas and Hunters and similar "small" boats in the marinas used for trips to the islands; so it's being done. What level of skill is recommended for sailing out to the islands though I have no idea.

All said, I definitely do need to get on the water, in the small craft that the sailing schools teach with and do some tacking and jibing about the bay. In addition to getting some instruction that will allow me to talk directly with the people who know the local waters before fully engaging. My "ashore knowledge" is definitely to the point where I'm ready to get out.

But I am prepared to put in the effort and investment associated with sailing. I have been wanting to pursue this for years and what time I have had on the water has been the motivator as well as the desire for the capacity to explore and take advantage of living on the coast. Now that I am finally able and willing, it's a good feeling to be on the way. Having some idea of the cost, by determining what boat will work for what I want to do has convinced me this is feasible. It's taken a lot just to figure out that a C-25 might be what I'm looking for.

Edited by - Sea Wolf on 08/27/2004 15:41:27

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 16:18:47

If you want to come to San Diego I'll give you free sailing lessons in my 1978 C25 fin keel standard rig.

Are you planning to store the boat full time in the water (slip)? Swing keels are not recommended for this, although many people do.

How many people in your family? The C25 is great for 1, excellent for 2, livable for 3, and crowded with 4 adults (or adult sized) on board for a long cruise. That said, we routinely cruise with 4 people and 2 dogs. You will want a pop-top model. Probably standard rig since you are a beginner.

What is your approximate budget? Older fins or swings can be had for around $5K, Wings for around $10K, the new C250 in the mid 20Ks. Trailers add quite a bit more.

The C25 is a good boat and I've had it in 20 knots of wind and seas to 6 feet. I sail almost every day and take on most any southern California conditions without too much fear. You have to know how to sail because, if it gets really rough, the motor may get dunked and besides the boat is more stable under sail. That said, you'll be motorsailing in light winds a lot. A good, reliable outboard is a must.

I would be real nervous about rounding Point Conception in a C25. The way to do it would be to wait until summer, wait until its calm, then (headed north) anchor in the Cojo anchorage above Santa Barbara, then motorsail around to Morro Bay in morning light air, always being ready to run back if the winds and seas come up too much.

Where do you live? I think we have some members in Morro and several in SF bay area. As to California from Santa Barbara south, I think the C25 is an ideal choice for a small crew in almost any weather you are likely to see less than a Small Craft Advisory.

Edited by - on

Sea Wolf
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 18:44:19

There will be 2 of us, my wife and I (she wants to learn too which is nice), and probably usually our dog--that should be interesting. How is it having a dog aboard? I was planning to keep the boat on the trailer in the back yard. I was hoping to start somewhat "on the cheap" probably in the $5k-$10k range. I've seen quite a few boats in that range, but I may be flexible somewhat as safety is the primary concern. My thought was that I could improve the boat as needed or upgrade to another boat as I acquire some first-hand familiarity for what's ideal.

I live in Santa Maria and am regularly in Morro Bay & Avila. Incidentally, in Avila/Port San Luis there is a hoist, so from what I'm gathering it may be worth the $20 to dip the boat.

I just got a response to a letter I wrote to someone at the Port San Luis Yacht Club referring me to a resident local pro for further advice. I didn't get advice on the C25 specifically for here, but I was told lessons and working on lakes for a bit was a good idea as the water can be challenging sometimes. Makes sense.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 19:32:15

C25 sounds perfect for you and a swing is OK since you are going to keep the trailer in your back yard. If you have $10K to spend you can look for a late model wing. Probably a Standard Rig would be better than a Tall Rig for you. Read the articles on our Tech Tips page about what to look for when you go to buy a C25.

When you get the boat, trailer down to Mission Bay. I'll get you a guest slip, we'll help you rig and launch the first time, and there are miles of delightful sailing inside the bay. When you are ready, you can head outside to a Pacific that is much more behaved and predictable than in your area and sail over to San Diego Bay.

Although you have many choices in that price range, a C25 is a good one because there are lots available, parts are readily available, sails are off the shelf, there is a lot of expertise (like on this board), its about the biggest sailboat you can really trailer. The boat is very simple to maintain, cheap to own, and mine is 25 years old an still sails very well (although shows its age somewhat). The boats last if cared for. Of course, most everyone on this forum went through a similar analysis as you and chose the C25 over all others!

Check out my web page about all the things we've done with our C25 in the last year. http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/indyIII.html Its a great boat for kids and dogs as well.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 20:09:02

I've been following along, as this all applies to my situation - except I'm not in CA. Specific to trailering & Launching & retrieving - what is the difference between a wing and swing?

Edited by - on

Sea Wolf
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 11:00:36

Just got a chance to check out some of the voyages of Indiscipline. Cool stuff. I'm think I'm getting sold on this boat.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 11:15:22

"I'm think I'm getting sold on this boat."

Yes, there's really nothing else in it's class. The about the biggest, most robust sailboat you can trailer short of spending $40K on a Norsea 27 or Corsair F30.

"Specific to trailering & Launching & retrieving - what is the difference between a wing and swing?"

In terms of draft required, not much. Darn close to being the same.

One difference is that with the swing you come onto the trailer without having keel contact (it's cranked up all the way)... as soon as you clear the ramp, you lower the keel into position onto the trailer supports.

The wing keel has to settle properly into position with full and proper contact on its carrying pad as you pull up the ramp... if you tow with the keel 'cockeyed' or otherwise mis-positioned on the trailer you can damage the boat, so a little more care is required going on and off the trailer.

Here on Humboldt bay we have a ramp that is notorious for being out of level... it puts boats on the trailer with about a 5 degree list to starboard. I've seen guys spend 20 minutes pulling up and down the ramp while cussing and trying to figure out why their boats just aren't going on the trailer straight.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 12:22:43

Trailer Prices: Those of you in the construction industry are probably aware of this already. Structural steel has suffered drastic price increases this year, to all-time record highs, and this is being reflected in prices for new boat trailers. The typical Catalina 25 trailer that could be purchased new from Trail-Rite in Santa Ana, CA last year for $7200 is now several hundred dollars more. Champion Trailers in Louisiana is adding a surcharge to the prices shown in their catalog, and you have to call them to get the price for that day. It's like they're pricing steel as if it was live Maine lobster in a fancy restaurant! I'm told that the big surge in price for steel, Portland cement, and plywood, is due to some big construction projects in China that are causing shortages of these construction staples. And of course the war in Iraq isn't helping. Anyway, it's something to keep in mind when boat shopping, that if the boat doesn't come with a trailer, it will be even more expensive than usual to have one made.

Edited by - on

dhunt
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 13:21:01

What GREAT responses . . . every time I log on to this forum I am happier about owning and enjoying Solitaire. The advice here is terrific. Sea Wolf . . . LISTEN to Brooke Wilson . . . LEARN TO SAIL A SMALL BOAT FIRST! They are cheap, easy to launch and store, great teachers and FUN to sail. I've sailed actively for 39 years and the stories I like to tell most are about experiences on open boats of 17 feet or less. When I retire to the 'big boat', I will have a sailing dingy and a windsurfer on board. For the record, I own a very old 14' Dagger (with a brand new sail), 20' Ensenada and the C-25. I vote with the crew here . . . any use short of 'off-shore' or 'live aboard', the C-25 is hard to beat.

Edited by - on

Sea Wolf
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 13:46:02

One book I read recently addressed the issue of building a boat. That's out of the question for my purpose, but apparently there is an expression: "Before you build a boat, build the dinghy first" I'm seeing a lot of advice to that effect on sailing in general too. I just encountered an interesting article on it at sailnet. If anybody's interested it's [url="http://www.sailnet.com/collections/learningtosail/index.cfm?articleID=suelar0179&coll_cat=Startingout&Coll_name=Starting%20Out"] here[/url]

I like the idea of taking a little boat out to the lake. As I mentioned, I've sailed some with a small catamaran, which had a lot to do with cultivating my interest in sailing. But I'm also interested in exploring the coast from the water and spending some nights aboard, which brings me into the realm of cruising.

I am taking this advice to sail small boats seriously though and it sounds fun. I know I'll need a dinghy anyway, and though it takes up more space, sailable hard tender appeals to me more than an inflatable. So I see no reason not to get a dinghy to sail while I'm looking for just the right cruising boat.

Edited by - Sea Wolf on 08/29/2004 15:39:29

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 16:30:56

I'll "third" the small boat suggestion, and I'm glad you're leaning that way, Wolf. That's where you really get to understand the relationship of the wind, the boat, the ballast (you) where you want to go, and how fast you get there. In a little boat, you get those things or you get wet! I always emphasize understanding your course relative to the wind, and tacking--not jibing--until you really understand the basics and are ready to learn how to control a jibe. Lots of new sailors get wet when they just "drive" the boat around, doing unplanned, uncontrolled jibes. You've probably learned at least some of that on the catamaran. I still love to get out on a sunfish!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2004 : 22:16:36

I bought a boat and a book. I loved my Tanzer 16, too big for a dingy but a wonderful size for tent sailing. It could handle just about anything and had a motor and lights.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2004 : 22:59:17

Frank: The sail is over... drop the sails! OHHHH... I get it... Wing-'n-wing, giving the truck a boost!

Wolf: FWIW, I offered some applicable comments on the new "sailboard" thread. Every case is different--"Your mileage may vary"--especially since you're not a lake sailor. But don't study it to death!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/30/2004 12:13:23

Sea Wolf
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Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 11:43:24

Yesterday I finally got down to the harbor in Santa Barbara to look at some boats that are for sale first hand. I've been doing plenty of looking at boats lately in person, not well knowing what I've been looking at, but yesterday was the first time I got to personally examine some of the specific models I've been studying. I was surprised at how big the C25's really are. I've seen plenty of pictures with trailered C25's making big trucks towing them looks small, but it didn't fully sink in until I stood next to one. Amazingly, my wife wasn't daunted by the size. I also was aware of the weight of these boats, but it hit home more standing by one. My 1/2 ton Silverado has made several 1000+ mile trips towing a 5th wheel in excess of 8000# in fairly good form; including over some pretty formidable passes . The truck's had several improvements done to it like high temp brakes, extra springs added to the rear end and air shocks to keep it level under a big load. It can handle the load and the vast majority of the towing will be under 45 miles on pretty flat ground. The engine could be larger, it's only a 350, but having done well with bigger loads, I'm confident it will suffice for these big boats.

However, keeping it in my back yard, and the cost of extended towing has me rethinking my immediate objectives. Today, my tape measure is coming out just to understand the reality of the space I'm working with. Besides my real estate limitations, I'm thinking now, that if I hold to this boat, it would probably be a whole lot easier to depart and arrive with the boat if I kept it in a trailer yard. I'm going to have to check the cost of that and compare it to just keeping it in a slip.

The other size issue that concerns me is rigging. That mast looks big and heavy. I've read up a little here on the process and tricks of getting underway from trailer, but I'm still wondering how long it will take and how much sweat will be required to get afloat. I'd appreciate any thoughts on that.

As I get closer to making a purchase, I've also been thinking about launch costs. The hoist looks like it would have a lot of advantages, but the rate is $20 round trip (in and back out), so that can add up if I manage--as I hope to--to get out several times per month. In which case I could have bought a slip and avoided gas, towing, rigging, etc... But the cost is getting to be more than I intended as somebody who set out to keep a boat at home and trailer to the free ramp in Morro Bay regularly. So there is still the ramp, but it looks like a big job getting it in, and then there's the corrosiveness of repeatedly dipping the trailer into the brine.

The basic question I guess I have is how often do you guys get out and how much money and effort does it take to do so?

I'm wondering if a smaller boat, maybe in the 20' or less size range might not be best to break in with. Yet, in all my studies of interior layouts, I just don't see being happy with the toilet under my head if I'm sleeping in a v-berth. And the waves and wind and where I want to go seem a little strong, though a local yacht club admiral trailer-sails an 18'er locally, hauls south a little to launch to the Channel Islands, makes the 4-5 hour drive up to the SF Bay occasionally, and generally goes everywhere I want to go; so it's doable in a smaller boat.

Aside from the fact that these boats can be loaded onto a trailer and hauled, that they are very roomy and nicely laid out inside for trailerable boats, that they seem pretty well suited to my somewhat challenging local waters, and that there's a lot of bang for the buck in terms of purchase price, another thing these boats definitely have going for them is this association and the website and forums. Thanks for all the help and patience with all these thoughts and questions.

Edited by - Sea Wolf on 08/30/2004 13:08:53

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