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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

JIB SOCK - ZIPPER vs TWIST LOCK?

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/27/2004 : 14:22:50

I need to buy a jib sock for my new 135 genny. I have seen these with either zippers or "Common Sense" 1/4 turn fasteners. Which is preferrable? One thing that worries me about zippers in outdoor use is that they get clogged with dirt and salt, and UV exposure probably chews them up. I was going to buy one from Catalina Direct, but theirs are zippered. Would I be better off to find a canvas shop that makes them with CS fasteners?

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25WK/TR Mk. IV #5857 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

"You might get there faster in a powerboat, but in a sailboat, you're already there"

Edited by - on

Designwiz
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 16:02:39

Within the next couple of weeks I will also begin making my own. I have choosen to use velcro to close up the open edges. The middle section for about a foot will not have any velcro for the jib lines to exit. I will use the jib halyard (not being used becuase of the CDI furler) to hoist it. Was able to find Velcro hook and loop on Ebay (had to bid on 75 feet worth) and the price was right. Hope it all works out but the materials were cheap enough in case it does not. Have a few ideas for the top end so it does not get hung up when raising it. Like a split plastic sleeve ahout a foot long sewn into the material to keep it moving straight up and keep its round shape. No matter what is used to close the sock someone will have to go to the bow to zipper, clasp, or velcro it shut or open it.

Edited by - Designwiz on 08/27/2004 16:47:43

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 18:09:01

I'm having the canvas guy in our sailing club, who does really nice work, make me a jib sock for my furled headsail. He is going to use the quarter turn fasteners, as he says they are better, and can take the wind pounding better when the boat is in the slip. Maybe it's because it is easier for him to manufacture that way, I don't know. But I do like to give my business to a local guy first if possible. When I talked to Catalina Direct they wanted me to supply measurements, my friend in the club took his own measurements from my boat. That's one less thing for me to potentially mess up.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 19:28:16

Frank, how 'bout a picture when your's gets done. I'm curious how close the fasteners will have to be to keep the sock closed. I looked at the zipper type on the Cruising Direct website and thought, "That's a loooooong zipper." Probably impossible to repair/replace.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 11:00:08

Hey Bubba,
If my guy ever finishes the project, i'll let you know about fastener spacing

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2004 : 19:02:14

Larry,

IMHO there are no zippers made that will stay crud free & never jam in a seagoing environment. Velcro is great if you have access to enough industrial grade stuff & someone to make the sock for you. Go with the quarter turn fasteners. KISS principle applies.

Edited by - on

jguyot
1st Mate

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USA
97 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 10:11:51

I currently have a Jib Sock on my 250wk and I have the zippers. This is my fourth season with it and have had no problem with it, but I am on a lake. They used 3 (The canvas shop told me the longest zipper available is 10 feet)"Plastic" zippers with the big 'grippers' and I have had no build up on them at all. Given the choice, I think I would still prefer the zippers over the 1/4 turn fastners as it is much eaiser to 'zip' and pull at the same time. The hard part with the 1/4 turn fastners is that you need two hands to fasten them and still need one hand to pull the halyard up at the same time. This, I believe, would leave you one hand short

if doing it solo!! or at least a lot more difficult.....

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 12:09:10

What is the advantage of the sock over a sewn on leech/foot cover for a roller furled headsail?

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 14:12:52

One advantage of the sock for roller furling is the sewn on UV cover doesn't stretch the same as the sail, so after a while you lose good sail shape.

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NuNees
Navigator

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USA
125 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2004 : 20:03:50

I am looking at a boat that has no UV protection for the Jib/Genoa ... current furled genoa has a sewn on protection strip.
How do you get a sock to go all the way up the furled sail?

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2004 : 22:18:28

Bill, you haul it up with a halyard. Ideally, you'll have a free jib halyard if your roller-furler has an internal halyard. Check this Catalina Direct website:
http://www.catalinadirect.com/furling%20jib%20sock/furling%20jib%20sockintro.html

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2004 : 08:59:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Mason
 One advantage of the sock for roller furling is the sewn on UV cover doesn't stretch the same as the sail, so after a while you lose good sail shape.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John,

My sewn-on sail cover is not simply added to the foot and leech, but overlaid on the sail cloth. With this setup, I can't see how there would be a difference between the stretch rates for the sail cloth under the sail cover and the sail cloth in the rest of the sail?

I'm not sure exactly how old my furled sail is, but even with the sewn-on sail cover, it has maintained an excellent sail shape.

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2004 : 12:02:34

I finally got around to installing the new (never used, came with the boat) CDI roller furler and new 150 head sail this season. However, before I installed all this new stuff. I wanted to protect it as best I could. I was also in dire need of a new main sail cover, so we decided to make all sorts of canvas covers for everything last winter. One reason I wanted a sock for the head sail was the obvious U.V. protection it provided. However, we get at least one or two real bad winds (50-80 MPH) that come through the area in the spring. I’ve heard of a few head sails, that when not covered with a sock, are forced to unfurl in these freak high winds. Needles to say, the results are catastrophic. My sock has a full length zipper to keep these strong winds from getting in and tearing fasteners apart. After one season, the “pull” on the upper zipper was missing due to lots of flogging in high winds…but the zipper slide continues to function just fine. Also, when installing a zipper, you should allow for canvas overlap to “hide” the zipper from the elements. The two halves of the sock should come together so you do not see the zipper. Fair winds. Todd Frye

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2004 : 13:51:28

Don,
It's the difference in stretch between the sailcloth and the sunbrella material. If the UV material was just "floating" on the sail there wouldn't be a difference, but it's stitched onto it. The sailcloth stretches, the sunbrella material doesn't stretch as much. Doesn't matter as much whether the sailcloth under the sunbrella stretches the same or not.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2004 : 14:12:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Mason
 Don,
It's the difference in stretch between the sailcloth and the sunbrella material. If the UV material was just "floating" on the sail there wouldn't be a difference, but it's stitched onto it. The sailcloth stretches, the sunbrella material doesn't stretch as much. Doesn't matter as much whether the sailcloth under the sunbrella stretches the same or not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would think that the Sunbrella material stretches more than sailcloth, but I'm no expert on fabrics.

Anyway, if a sock is better than sewn on covers, then why do almost all the boats in Cruising World have the sewn on type?

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2004 : 14:59:43

"Why" anything? Because it's easier! Why roller furling? Because it's easier!

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jmorrical
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2004 : 17:58:50

I have the Catalina Direct zipper jib sock on my 250 WK CDI Furler. I run it up and down 3-4 times a month on average and it has been on the boat for four seasons on Lake Conroe north of Houston, TX. The zipper is one run, top to bottom of the sock, with zipper tabs at both ends. They zip closed toward center to allow closure where the jib sheets winds from the furled jib. All zipper materials are heavy duty construction non metal and will not corrode. It has been very durable. I have never had any jamming as someone mentioned as a concern. Dust, dirt, bugs, and spiders haven't jammed it. Ice might, but I dont generally face those winter conditions in Texas! It hasn't shown any evidence of wear either. I would buy one just like it next time.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2004 : 09:20:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 ...if a sock is better than sewn on covers, then why do almost all the boats in Cruising World have the sewn on type?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Mason
 "Why" anything? Because it's easier! Why roller furling? Because it's easier!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John,

Although my question wasn't directed to you, you've made my point. We put furlers on boats for the ease and convenience even though we may pay a penalty in sail area, shape, versatility, speed,...etc. Without the need for a spare halyard, zippers, velcro, twist locks, going forward, the sewn on cover just adds to this ease and convenience.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2004 : 11:45:40

Based on the previous comments, I humbly withdraw my earlier comment regarding zippers. That being said, I think I'll defer messing with a sock for now & stick to a sewn-on cover.

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2004 : 13:35:32

I'll be the first to admit it. I'm lazy. I like easy. Unless that ease comes at a price, 'cause I'm also cheap!

I thought about a jib sock, even bought the sunbrella material (on Ebay at a great price, did I mention I'm cheap). Then the laziness kicked in. I'll continue to use my jib's UV cover. Maybe I'll make a cloth companionway cover. Next season

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