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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/09/2004 : 21:57:32

As the proud new owner of a 42 I've been actively participating in the 42 forum, much in the same style that I've done that here....

Except that the people that run that forum, not necessarily the members, have a different idea of what a forum should look like. I posted a message soliciting experiences with custom weather services. Today I got the following e-mail:

Oscar,

I've pulled your question on weather URL's off the forum as it doesn't relate to the objective of the forum which is a discussion of the Catalina 42. I waited for a day to see if anyone responded.
As a pilot, I'm sure that you have access to many weather related sites.
I hope you're enjoying your 42 and that you will be able to take her out once it stops raining out there.

Garry Willis
C 42 Forum Moderator
C 42 Technical Editor
Mainsheet Magazine

To which I replied the following:

Gary,

If you would have read my post more carefully, you would have understood that I was not looking for sites, I was looking for services people have used. Services that provide a live human being which serves the role of dispatcher, with all the weather tools at his or her fingertips, and who provides a one on one service. I was hoping to tap into the experience of other 42 owners who might have used such a service.

Having owned a Catalina 250 I've spent many, many hours on the 25-250 forum. (1230+ posts) Discussions are not always about the 25 or 250, but about cruising spots, boat shows, funny or scary experiences. The only hard rule is to not insult anyone, and to that end stay away from politics and religion. It is a fun forum, people laugh and cry together. There is a sense of community. Your effort to enforce a formal to the point forum leads, in my humble opinion, to a dry, humorless, stuffy environment. Sailing is supposed to be fun, so should the forums be.

And, if you want to be consistent pull the Yamaha in the SFO area, the inflatable, the Honda generator threads, the flopper stopper, the hurricane discussions, as these are all general sailing subjects, and not specifically related to the Catalina 42.....you appear to be measuring with two sticks here.....

You've lost my interest.

Oscar.

I'm hanging here if you guys don't mind....

Lady Kay IV, Dragonfly 25 # 54 Former C30#618-C250WB#618-C42#76

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2004 : 22:04:59

Welcome home! (...even though you never left.) Good return, though.

Have you tried Cruising World? http://www.cruisingworld.com/forums.jsp

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/09/2004 22:07:59

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2004 : 22:12:28

Thanks Dave, yes I have Cruising world on the book mark list. I also sent my rant out on the 42 list server...turns out I'm not the only one that got whacked by the 42 forum Nazi's....

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2004 : 22:28:08

Sounds like a very dry, humorless forum. I wonder how they would react to an illustrated thread regarding the new 1200 HP Catalina 42 MK.lll Thundersailor?

But their loss is our gain.

Edited by - oldsalt on 09/09/2004 22:29:41

ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2004 : 23:08:15

As I might be a future C 42 owner, at least I won't be swayed in my decision by this C42 owner
"Gary" the "Forum <s> Moderator</s> Intolerator.
Actually I'm thinking of chartering a C42 in the caribbean soon.

I don't know how many C25 owners bought one in part because of this forum (me inlcuded).
I wish he knew of my sentiments.
<s></s>

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 03:06:39

OldSalt wrote:<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I wonder how they would react to an illustrated thread regarding the new 1200 HP Catalina 42 MK.lll Thundersailor?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oh boy, I'll get my design team on it right away!

Nah, won't do it.

News like this makes me appreciate this place and the knowledgeable, friendly, sociable people that participate here even more.

Steve

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 07:48:38

Boy I'm glad that we don't have an intimadator on our forum. If we did I would have about three posts and would probably not pay much attention to what's going on.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 08:50:02

I don't think I'd last that long at a site like that very long either. If I did I'd probably go into administration or something. Shudder

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 10:18:20

Maybe we should all join the 42 site.

Edited by - on

Tony Partain
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 10:52:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Maybe we should all join the 42 site<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I just did and here is my post.

Hurricane Ivan is bearing down on us and we need help. We didn't sign up for weather service and we don't know which way to go!!! Fears is taking over, my wife and kids are crying uncontrollably. I am concerned that the posting nazi will strike down our last chance at life.....

. I hope somebody will take pity on us and help us out. Posting nazi could you find it in your heart to look out for us and not delete this post so we may have a chance to find a way out of this terrible situation?

Edited by - Tony Partain on 09/10/2004 11:49:42

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:11:08

There are some so-called 'boating' sites out there where over 1/2 of the posts seem to be non-boating related. Perhaps those who run the C42 site are overcompensating for fear that their forum gets out of control (which I think is unlikely because there are relatively very few C42 owners). I think this site has a very palatable mix regarding the amount of non-C25/250 posts. Because it appears such a reaonable mix has occured naturally, without control from 'the man', perhaps that says something about the type of person who owns a C25/250.

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 11:27:46

I visit the Crusing World site often when the activity slows down here a bit and can say they can get kinda radical over there about non boat related subjects (i.e. politics) but overall its a pretty informative site especially for those who have dreams of someday taking to the big water and never returning... but

There's no place like home, there's no place like home...

Just stick around here Oscar... we like ya!

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 12:10:02

Hey O, you gonna come to Cheney next year for the Nationals? You could hop for free and catch a ride on someone's boat.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 12:47:46

Hi Oscar,

'Sorry to hear about the cold-shoulder reception you've gotten on the C-42 forum ... although I'm not the least bit surprised. That sort of snobbery is exactly what I would have expected. I would imagine that the vast majority of those folks wouldn't even think about working on their boats ... they just let "the yard" do it.

As has been repeated many times on this Forum, the larger the boat, the less likely it will ever leave the slip. I suspect that you will be logging many hours of sailing while most of the guys who populate (or should I say "pollute") that C-42 forum will just go to their floating condos and have cocktail parties ... what a waste.

Most of us here have never met each other face-to-face. Nevertheless, I can't count how many times I've said things like "A friend told me," or "I've got some friends in Florida who are taking bashing," etc. etc. These are C-25/250 friends whom I've never met, yet they are truly friends in my book. I wonder if any of the guys on the C-42 forum could make the same claim.

'Sorry to get on my soapbox ... it's good to vent sometimes.

BTW Oscar ... stick around ... you're one of the friends that I/we would miss.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 12:59:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tony Partain
 I just did and here is my post.

Hurricane Ivan is bearing down on us and we need help....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh geez--he actually DID it! Hey Tony... Let's not start class woarfare here...

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 13:03:08

Oscar, how about we take up a collection? Say every member of the C25/250 National Association chips in $1000. Then I will buy a C42 and Spike can become your new forum host.

Edited by - on

Tony Partain
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 13:16:31

Nothing like a little fun!! What are they going to do? Take my trophy? HA! Do you think the posting intimidator is going to hunt me down? I just can't take them to seriously you gotta laugh!! No snobs allowed. Besides a C250 can out maneuver a C42. Bring it on Norm!! HA!

Tony Partain
President
National Champion
Jokester
Prankster

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 13:23:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Buzz Maring
 As has been repeated many times on this Forum, the larger the boat, the less likely it will ever leave the slip. I suspect that you will be logging many hours of sailing while most of the guys who populate (or should I say "pollute") that C-42 forum will just go to their floating condos and have cocktail parties ... what a waste.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I can't speak for all C-42 owners, but one kicked butt in last year's Transpac, winning its class and beating a lot of bigger and "faster" boats--including most of the Cal 40s. That's some serious sailing.

There's no doubt that a C-42 is less of a daysailer than a C-25--you don't just run down to the dock by yourself and push off... But I know of some C-42 owners who are active, serious sailors. In my mind, that's about the entry-level size for real ocean cruising. If I saw one on something smaller than one of the Great Lakes, I'd have to chuckle--that would qualify as a "condo."

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 13:28:01

For whatever its worth, information I obtained from reading this forum is what convinced me that the boat to buy was the Cat 250 WK.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 13:31:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frogger
 For whatever its worth, information I obtained from reading this forum is what convinced me that the boat to buy was the Cat 250 WK.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We couldn't convince you to get the Mac 26M, huh?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 13:55:06

Oscar, welcome back...

I'm chuckling about past memories of the C22 bunch who miffed at the Mainsheet granting equal space to the big guys simply told them to bugger off. A few C22 folks have gotten back with the Mainsheet, but the huge majority of C22 folks do their own thing.

After that, the big guys suggested we have All Catalina Associations replace our C25-250 National Association so they could gobble up our much larger membership to foot the bill for their desired associations...which they would run cuz they got the bigger toys.

Our officer staff at that time said.... thanks....but no thanks.

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 15:31:45

I recall my first time putting Boaty in at Bear Lake. They have a fine marina and active yacht club. When lake water is used for agriculture towards the end of summer, dropping water levels force the big boats (30’- 40’) to pull out. It was exciting to walk amongst all these big beautiful boats lined up in the parking lot, getting new bottom paint for winter dry storage. I was anxious to help one captain reach his paintbrush, but when help was offered, he looked me square in the eye, turned and walked away. Man that smarts. I suppose we have all been snubbed at one time or another, but it never seems to be a whole lot of fun. This board is something rare and unique, and I hope that never changes. My first encounter with an Internet forum was the Catalina Association, which has given me courage to try auto forums (etc), but you guys are still the best. I appreciate your humor, wisdom, insights and help. Fair winds. Todd Frye

Edited by - on

Tony Partain
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 15:34:05

I'm scared now. The guys over on the 42 forum are replying to my post like its a real situation. The tone of this post was over the top, you would think that they would catch on!! I haven't laughed this hard in a while. LOL

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 17:46:20

way to go Tony! Have fun with it

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 21:22:15

The key question is, is Oscar OK with this little game? He might want to have the option of getting some info from them...

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2004 : 22:16:03

As a member in good standing of this forum I hereby award myself the annual: (drumroll)

"Most replies per hour trophy"

The thread is 24 hours old and we're heading for page two.

First of all, I am between tears and laughing convulsions reading this stuff. So is the Admiral. You guys are a good buch, and you know it.

Second, as has always been one of the great strenghts of this forum, some very good insights are hidden in between the Bravo Sierra.

After cooling down from the initial shock of being censored for asking a question about weather,

, I thought about it some more and decided to take the high road and work the system. (A rare moment for a man who is a rebel at heart, and generally only conforms enough to make a buck flying airplanes, yes, by the book, it's a career decision)

I have also taken the discussion to the Sailnet 42 list, where 42 owners can speak without fear of being "moderated".....(Although like anywhere else Sailnet would not tolerate crude behaviour.)

So I put forth the following proposition:

Gary,

If you subscribe to it, which i suspect you do, you will have noticed that I brought this matter to the attention of the Sailnet list. So far most of the responses, and the e-mails I have received off forum, are, to varying degrees, in agreement with my standpoint.

In a member supported organization, the members can voice their opinion and effect change. I am a member and I am thus hereby formally proposing a redefinition of the mission statement of the forum:

To let the forum be a more "laissez faire affaire," "where owners of the Catalina 42 can share in a broad spectrum of matters pertaining to the enjoyment of their boats. "
All with the understanding that abuse and uncivilized behavior will, off course, not be tolerated. (If you cut out politics and religion you are three quarters of the way there...) My experience with the Catalina 25-250 forum is that it will be, in fact, mostly and effectively self policing. Most people are here to, and want to, talk about sailing. Meritless posts will be ignored. People going off-topic too far will either be ignored, or told, in public or behind the scenes, to cut it out. All this without individuals forcing their idea of what is important to the members on what is a community asset. My opinion is that this is the best way to grow and have fun.

I encourage other members to chime in on this. If there is a majority, you (you Gary and others currently at the helm) should act accordingly. If there is only a few of us, and most people like the status quo, then there is no merit to my proposal. If it's close, and a lot of people seem to care, an easy on-line referendum is the way to go.

All this is in no way a reflection on you personally. Your time, knowledge, and your contributions are very much appreciated.

Oscar, Catalina 42 #76, "Lady Kay"


So there you have it. We'll see what happens.

As to your assorted comments:

Tony, a little sophomoric humor is not uncalled for once in a while. I replied in kind, but as you noticed I followed your lead again and retracted. What really scared me was the people that took you serious.....maybe they don't deserve better.......

There are, like any other boat, many 42 owners who use their boat frequently. In fact, 200 out of 800 or so produced are members, there are frequently tie ups of 6-10 boats.....how does that compare to this forum? Prorated? Apples for Apples?

Dave, believe it or not, the 42 is just a big 25. One relatively agile man can row up to Lady Kay, take off the mainsail cover, crank the diesel, drop the mooring line, put to the starting line, raise the main (well lubricated with almost a whole can of sailkote) by hand except for the last six inches, and roll out the jib in five minutes. The boat is well designed. It's a good old tub.

Ok...enough. I gotta go to my bunk. This morning they drugged me and stuck a camera up my WHEEEEEEEEHHHHHHNER

to confirm I'm stone free....guess I'll have to go back to work now. Then I came home and in my narcotic stupor dug up the lid to the septic tank and had it pumped whew

.....now I'm sitting here ranting away.....

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay"
C250 # 618 Good Survey, check's in the mail.
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 09/10/2004 22:21:26

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