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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

deck to bulkhead stiffening

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/25/2004 : 06:55:40

Any suggestions or pointers on stiffening the deck to bulkhead connections on my Catalina Capri 25? Apparently, this is a common need due to the way these are attached when manufactured. Mine is showing some of the telltale indicators.
If anyone has done this before, it would be great to hear how and if you are happy with the results.

Thank you.

Rick

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2004 : 09:07:14

How are they different than a Catalina 25? ...just curious.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2004 : 09:38:42

I do not know exactly Mark as I am not that familiar with the Cat 25. It is a bit smaller and has less accomodations in the cabin. I do believe the deck to bulkhead attachment is the same in both, but I may be wrong on that account.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2004 : 12:05:27

I think Duane has replaced a bulkhead on his C25. Maybe he can shed some light on it, if he reads this thread.

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2004 : 12:38:14

<font color="blue">Any suggestions or pointers on stiffening the deck to bulkhead connections on my Catalina Capri 25? Apparently, this is a common need due to the way these are attached when manufactured. Mine is showing some of the telltale indicators ...</font id="blue">

Hi there,

This is new to me ... what are the "telltale indicators?" What is the worst-case end result if this problem goes untreated?

BTW ... I checked your profile, but I didn't see a first name or nickname ... maybe I missed it from one of your earlier posts ... is there something you'd like us to address you by besides "existentialsailor?"

Happy Turkey Day everyone!

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2004 : 12:52:21

Buzz,

This is taken from http://www.wyc.org/capri25/tips.htm#Loose%20Bulkheads

"If you notice your leeward shrouds hanging slack and you see bolts constantly loosening at the base of your bulkheads, it's time to stiffen up your boat. One option is to replace the bulkheads since it's only plywood (Again, Frank, what were you thinking here, three #10 bolts holding the cheep plywood bulkhead down?). Others have added stays inside the hull that continue down from the deck to the hull or base of the mast. Another solution is to disassemble the bulkhead and use a small amount of epoxy to keep the bulkhead from moving. This, along with the three #10 bolts will keep the bulkhead from moving, but still allow you to remove the bulkhead at a later date. Watch for rot here!"

Initially, I just thought my rigging was tuned incorrectly and undoubtably, that is also true. However, once Swimmer was in her cradle and I started wrapping her up for the winter, I found much hardware loose, including chain plates. They were not like this when I first got the boat in September because I checked all of these things looking for signs of delamination or worse. We sailed in some pretty heavy winds near the end of the season and the leeward shrouds were very slack both port and starboard.

As to the profile, that and my signature have been updated, hope that helps.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2004 : 13:11:41

Rick,

Spent some time in Antrim/Hillsboro....Concord was nearest Chinese food! Where do you sail, Winnepesaukee? Sunapee? As far as the bulkhead, if you sail her hard enough to make things rattle apart, I'd disassemble and put back together using common sense, ample beefy hardware,(maybe add an interior "chain plate"), and goop.

Just me talking,

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618)
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2004 : 13:24:47

For Mark L. The Capri 25 was built to compete with the J24 for sales originally being offered I think in '83 or so. It is a mast head rigged 24' 7" LOA boat, with a beam of 9' 2", and displacing 2,785 lbs. The carry 276 sq ft of sail rated area. The rudder post is inboard (inside the huge cockpit), and the interior - while way nicer than a J24 - is spartan compared to a C25. If you look on the Catalina Yachts website at the Capri 22, the Capri 25 was similar in design but larger. Here's a link: http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=14

BTW: most PHRF handicappers have the J25 and Capri 25 pretty close to each other. The J24 has an advantage on windward legs. But the Capri 25 with that huge masthead spinnaker can really real the J's in on reaches and runs.

For Rick,
Replacing the bulkheads is not a big deal if you have some basic woodworking skills and tools. If you want to "beef up" the bulkhead go to a 3/4" marine grade plywood and either epoxi or mechanically fasten the bulkhead on the top, bottom and outboard edges to the interior of your boat. You could also "anchor" the lower shroud chainplates with a 1/4" or 3/8" rod of stainless steel that you secure to the chainplate bolts with a turnbuckle and extend the rod down and through the seat. Reinforce the inside of the seat with a backing plate and/or knees. These mods should firm the rigging bases pretty well.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

sanibelle
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2004 : 15:07:51

" either epoxi or mechanically fasten the bulkhead on the top, bottom and outboard edges to the interior of your boat."

Bill,

By interior, do you mean the existing bulkhead?

Joe Russo - C25 Sanibelle FK/TR

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2004 : 18:04:34

This is a closeup of the deck to bulkhead mount, notice the 3 screws in the plate on the bulkhead.

[url="http://www.y44.com/ims/pic.php?u=1533EK6c6&i=9805"]closeup of deck to bulkhead mount[/url]

That is all that holds the deck on in that part. Not as easily visible, but note the two metal pieces fore and aft of the bulkhead. Those are what the rigging is bolted through. When it all gets loose, those slap up against the undersaid when you come about or tack. I found all that hardware loose. Now some might be due to temperature change and certainly some due to poor tensioning of the rigging, but I believe I have alot of flex in there.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2004 : 10:41:19

Joe,

I was talking about fastening a new bulkhead to the interior liner.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2004 : 10:55:44

Rick,

It's too bad you didn't have someone below to watch what was happening as you sailed. If you started out sailing with a fair amount of tension on the lower shrouds and the nuts actually began loosening after sailing in a brisk breeze, I'd be concerned about a couple things. One is that the backing plates are compressing the hull from the inside and working the chainplate fitting up and down through the deck. This might be an indicator that the hull core material has gotten wet and is non-functional. This - of course - leads to the second concern that there might be extensive water migration that may have weakened your boat in other areas.

Since the boat is on the hard for the winter, it's a good opportunity to remove the chainplate fittings and examine the core for damage. Repair as needed and recalk for waterproofness.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2004 : 19:17:06

Thanks for the advice and warnings Bill.

I plan on doing just that to the chain plates and I will thoroughly examine the core while I have them apart. I also want to put the equivalent of chain plate on the stanchions as they don't have them. I have one of those that has gotten quite loose. Need to inspect the core around those too.

Just wait till I post the pictures of the motor mount and the portlights! I figure one problem every couple of days...don't want to wear out my welcome!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2004 : 22:20:44

We have an early Capri 22 at the club that has pulled its chainplate backing plates through the deck. Capri's were not made like Catalina's. As Bill said they tried to compete with the J-24 but did not use balsa core to do it, so the construction of that era Capri has always worried me.
Rick, your bulkheads do not hold your deck on. The hull to deck joint does that. Your problems with your keel, rigging and other things seem to be adding up to a questionable purchase. What is the history of this boat? Why did you decide it was a good buy? How much did you pay? Do you know the PO? Are you PO'ed?

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 05:55:06

Hi Frank,

No doubt this was a questionable purchase, but it is a risk I am willing to take. You see, I knew Swimmer was a "fixer upper" and the purchase price fully reflected that. Obviously, I'm not very knowledgable about sail boats, but I want to learn and this seems like an excellent project to learn both about sailboat construction and sailing. Am I PO'd? No, not at all. I'm excited about the prospects of bringing this boat back to her former glory. She used to win a lot of races on the lake where she has been since new. Will I be able to do that? Time will tell. You may be reading 6 months to a year from now that I decided it wasn't worth it, or you may be reading of the continuing progress I am making in restoring the old girl. Nothing I've found so far has put me off, though admittedly, my limited knowledge may make me underestimate the significance of some things. As long as I end up doing the majority of the work myself I will accomplish two important things: I will be learning the boat inside out and I will be keeping costs under control. That doesn't mean I won't be seeking more experienced help and advice. I'm enthusiastic about her prospects, but I realize some things may be beyond me despite my enthusiasm.
.
Thanks Frank for the clarification on the bulkhead to deck connection
.
Also, thanks for the candid questions Frank, a reality check is never a bad thing.

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2004 : 14:57:14

Rick, as long as you keep your enthusiasm there is almost nothing you cannot learn to do, and there is no better site than this one to have friendly people to offer assistance. Just keep plugging along, learning as you go, and you will be surprised how "the list" will go along. Of course for every item that comes off the top of the list another one, or more, goes on the bottom! But we have all been there. Main thing is to remember to go sailing every now and then. God Bless, ron srsk Orion SW FL

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