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Catalina 25/250 International Association

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2005 : 16:48:11

But what if some guy or gal from Aukland or Perth joins the association, wins the trophy, and decides to have the next international challenge held down there? Will we need a draft deed of gift to decide such things?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2005 : 18:15:38

The officers evaluate bids from competing clubs to host the event. There is a rotation : east coast, midwest, west coast, midwest, east coast, ....

I seriously doubt we'll agree to host the Worlds event in Austrailia, but might be quite happy to get a Fleet going there.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2005 : 22:37:41

IMHO, the 'International Association' should continue to hold the championships on the current rotation in the continental US in perpetuity. The international designation is part courtesy, but most of all - recognition of the popularity of this boat...and just in case it needs to be said again; maintaining a high profile and therefore the popularity of the C25 helps to ensure that Catalina continues to support the older models - the direct off-shoot of which is - a greater holding value of our asset. Its been pointed out that Catalina sometimes forgets to include C25-250 in some of its material - I say, lets give them another reason to acknowledge.

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2005 : 12:21:18

OK, how do we vote on this?

We can either vote as a whole group...or just let the current leaders decide it or a combination of the current leaders plus fleet captains who will in turn vote the way their members want them to vote.

Edited by - coach on 02/18/2005 12:22:39

Capt. Kurt
Navigator

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185 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2005 : 18:54:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by familysailor
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gnorgan
 Isn't the distance from Southern California to Kansas about the same as from Europe to Kansas?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What size of tow vehicle you would need to tow your C-25 from Europe to Kansas?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why not just sail it across the pond? :P

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2005 : 16:41:06

Our experience has been:

We changed to the Catalina 34 International Association a few years ago.

We have boats in the UK, Canada, Australia, Costa Rica, and New Zealand.

We continue to call our regattas Nationals because our overseas brethren don't really get fair shake to join in the racing. We have had some east coast skippers fly to the west coast and borrow boats to race, but as far as I know, we haven't had any overseas competitors in our Nationals. Seems only fair to us, although World Champion does have that cachet.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2005 : 20:51:35

Is there a way to have a forum poll to see if there is a consensus in letting the officers handle a name change, or do the by-laws require a vote of the membership? I would think the officers could make that decision as it has no direct impact outside of changing the word "National" on the forum and Telltale and Mainsheet Magazine...Dan #727

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2005 : 23:22:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 Jim,

As you correctly identified, we are truly an International Association and, as such, should put a vote to the members to change name of the association to reflect the same.

Regarding a World Championship however, I think it would be incredibly unfair to our members that hail from other than continental U.S. waters; including our brethren in U.S. territorial waters. Nice try, though. ;-)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've tried to keep my mouth shut about this thread as long as I could but I can't anymore.

I agree with J.B.

I've always thought of this as an international association though it's called national.
One thing I don't see is our calling our "Nationals", "Worlds".
The U.S. probably has the majority of the 25/250's in the world but what gives us the the right to tell other 25/250 owners, that may be better/faster sailors than us, if you want to prove your worth against the "world" organization you have to come to us.
How many of us here could, or have the money, to ship our boats, which would probably be at least 4 times as much as we spent on them, somewhere else in the world just to compete in an "International" race when we could take them to Kansas for the same thing, except for the "International" rating.
I'm 47 years old also and I would love to be able to acomplish a feat which was internationally recognised but I think what we are talking about here is making up our own rules to make our nationals just appear International.
To me thats like "I'm the best on the block so I'm the best in town!" which isn't the case.
We have members from all over the world, and if they want and have the money and gumption to come all the way to Kansas this year to compete, more power to them, to call it international, I don't think so.
IMHO

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2005 : 23:28:06

I disagree and, if we have the 2008 Nationals here I can provide rental C25s and C250s for those who want to come to San Diego without their boats.

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2005 : 00:14:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 I disagree and, if we have the 2008 Nationals here I can provide rental C25s and C250s for those who want to come to San Diego without their boats.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

But can they supply you with a boat if you have you go there?
Or would it be a rule that races could only be held in the states?
And if they could, how competetive would you be on a strange boat witout yours sails, your running rigging, your standing rigging, a boat with whatever the water is able to attatch to the bottom?
I think we are at an unfair advantage requiring other members throughout the world to have to come here to compete for an international trophy.

(edit) <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 
I seriously doubt we'll agree to host the Worlds event in Austrailia, but might be quite happy to get a Fleet going there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
"We" are the Association, which includes sailors from all over the world, which includes Austrailia.

Edited by - Charlie Vick on 02/20/2005 00:39:51

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2005 : 09:04:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Charlie Vick
 "We" are the Association, which includes sailors from all over the world, which includes Austrailia.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Precisely, which is why I wholeheartedly support changing the name to Catalina 25/250 International Association in order to enfranchise non-U.S. participation in the class' association.

However, calling what is currently a U.S. regatta the "Worlds" would seriously disenfranchise those same participants that we say we want to acknowledge. We, the Association, would be free as a collective to vote as "we" saw fit, but the predominate U.S. membership would cause even the balloting to be equally unfair.

As an alternative, how about changing the regatta to the North American Championships and opening the rotation of venues to include Canada and Mexico? At least that would be more representative of the realistic possibilities for participation.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2005 : 09:51:33

Coincidently, while reading the Catalina 36 section of the latest Mainsheet magazine, I came across a reference to them changing their name from "Catalina 36 National Association" to the "Catalina 36 International Association". From their website,...

"The Catalina 36 family has been growing. Going into our tenth year we have strong, active fleets on both coasts as well as on Lake Michigan. According to our Tech Editor we now have boats and correspondents in the UK, Australia, Canada, The Netherlands and Hawaii. We are now an international organization and may soon change our name to IC36A, International Catalina 36 Association."

Being the son of Canadian citizens, I wouldn't mind recognizing the fact that some of our members live outside our national borders.

Interestingly, I've dealt directly with more Canadian C25 owners than owners from the states. I bought a bunch of gear from a Canadian C25 owner just across the river from me, sold my old main to another C25 owner in Windsor, and sold an extra poptop tent to another Canadian.

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2005 : 09:57:37

Why don't we put a few options on a ballot and allow members to vote.

1. Change the name to the Catlalina 25/250 International Association
2. Change the national championship to the world championship
3. Change the national championship to the north american championship
4. Leave everything the same and make no changes

Seems to be quite a different amount of views on these topics. So, put it up for a vote or just
let the leaders make a decision.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2005 : 12:00:42

Yes, we will put it up to a vote. I'll check the bylaws and see if we can do it in the next telltale or if we have to wait until August.

Meanwhile, keep the debate coming.

I think

(1) International Association recognises our truly world-wide membership

(2) International designation enhances prestige of our association

(3) "World" Championship enhances the importance of the event. Perhaps we could even get a tiny bit of coverage in SAIL, Latttitude 38, or the like.

(4) We reach out world-wide and encourage growth of fleets. Should a fleet and club present a viable bid from another country, the officers would consider this bid on an even playing field with other bids EVEN if that meant that the majority of US members would not be able to compete.

(5) In reality, today, nothing would be changed but some of the titles on the web page and our page in the Mainsheet. No sailors in Austrailia, Europe, Canada, the Carribean, or Latin America would be disenfranchised. Instead, we would be extending a hearty welcome to:
(a) build a fleet
(b) come to the World Championships
(c) present a bid to have the event at their facility sometime

I believe in Europe the boat is called a Jaguar 25. We could include that in our pages/titles for search engines. If Austrailia has a brand name, we can include that as well.

Be aware that your Officers and Staff are actively engaging Capri 25 association to discuss a merge with our association. That could help give us even more members and hence international stature. 

We already have at least 1 Capri 25 member.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2005 : 13:10:54

There is also a modestly active Capri 25 group on Yahoo that I belong to. My point being that the Capri 25s obviously still has a good following and thus will hopefully be a good addition to the association. Yes, of course I do realize I have some bias on the matter.
As to the change to international, I think if it is handled in a considerate manner, which to me is the hallmark of this association, it would be a wise move.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 09:42:14

Prior to the annual elections the current officers will consider this question and prepare the necessary wording to amend our current by-laws to accomplish the name change. That is if "International" is something we can accomplish with out the consent of some sailing organization. That aspect of the question would have to researched.

On the other hand if we are International, then sometimes the World Championships would have to be held elsewhere, may Auckland or ???

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 10:20:21

We should not automatically consider the Australian or British Jaguars as "Catalina 25s," and therefor entitled to compete in the Catalina 25 National or World Regatta. After the molds were sold, consumer demands might have caused the Brits or the Aussies to make modifications to the hardware, hull, rudder, keel or rig of either version of the Jaguar that would prevent them from being equally competitive. Before any such decision is made, someone should make a comparison between the C25 and each version of the Jaguar 25, to see if the Jaguars have any modifications that disqualify them from racing against C25s on a one-design basis. I remember at least one discussion on the forum that suggested there were some significant differences in the British Jaguar.

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 10:28:54

Steve Milby wrote:<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I remember at least one discussion on the forum that suggested there were some significant differences in the British Jaguar.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, many of them came with a V-12 and wire wheels.
(sorry, couldn't resist)

Steve

Edited by - on

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