Association Forum - auto pilot help

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

auto pilot help

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

77Gypsy
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/12/2005 : 12:26:07

on my previous post i mentioned a tiller tamer and many of you gave great advice, i bought the tamer online last night but was curious about possibly going the auto pilot route.

Are they complicated to install?
Does instillation require lotts of precision?

I do most work on Gypsy myself but an autop pilot seems to be a more precise piece of equipment and am not so sure it's something i want to attempt on my own. am i wrong?

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 15:41:17

Steve
Here is a link........
paulj
http://www.busse-yachtshop.de/dae_raymarine-pinnenpilot-zubehoer.html

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

Members Avatar

318 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 16:24:57

They are dirt simple to install if you are reasonably competent with tools and read the directions. The Autohelm 1000 or 2000 is the one I normally use and it requires two wires (usually 14 ga), one 1/2 inch hole in the cockpit seat,one 3/4 hole in the cockpit side for the wires, and a bought or fabricated tiller attachment piece ( I make them out of 1/4 by 1 1/2 aluminium flat bar), and a couple of bolts.
Alteratively you can buy mount extentions from Raytheon to set it up without making anything but its not as nice an installation.
Two hours will set one up if you make your own part. Dave

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 20:03:55

Like Dave said, installing an autopilot is pretty simple if you follow the directions. Here is a link to the [url="http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/SubmittedFiles/Handbooks/Autopilots/ST1000and2000plus.pdf"]manual for the ST1000/2000 autopilots.[/url]. If you read the chapter on installation, you can kind of get an idea of what it takes to install.

As for mounting, I prefer the cantilever mount because if I had a cockpit seat mount, I would have to move my full length cockpit cushions when using the autopilot. Additionally, with the cantilever mount, the only hardware on my tiller is a small SS pin sticking up a 1/2" or so atop the tiller. This results in a cleaner installation that doesn't interfere with legs or tiller covers.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 20:30:15

As above. But think of the benefits. I truly believe, as a decrepit old coot, that if I did not have the Autohelm I would give up sailing, since now I am alone most all the time . It allows you to raise sail, take breaks, go below, make the samdwich, etc etc, so the time involved in putting it in is repayed manyfold. And as has been pointed out, if you can change a household plug box, you can install an autopilot, not only that you will have the pride of doing it and the knowledge it is don e right! Fair winds, ron srsk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 21:34:40

Steve,

I have installed a Autohelm ST-2000 Plus autopilot on my 1979 C-25. The others are correct that it's as easy as drilling a couple of holes and connecting a couple of wires.

Just a few additional quick comments:
<ul>
<li>I mounted mine on top of the stbd coaming.</li>
<li>I installed the tiller pin in a hole on top of the tiller.</li>
<li>I added a 5" extension bar to the ram (readily available from Raytheon) to compensate for the greater distance from the coaming to the tiller.</li>
<li>If you go with the ST-2000, then you can reduce the factory recommended radius from the pintles for faster response and greater lock-to-lock included angle.</li>
<li>If you have (or would consider having) coaming boxes (like glove compartments for sailboats), then that would be about the perfect place to mount the wiring connector out of the weather.</li>
<li>If you want to do a super job on the wiring, Raytheon sells special Autohelm wire by the foot. It has the right number of conductors (6) in the correct wire gauges, with electonic interference shielding.</li>
<li>I strongly suggest that Autohelm tiller pilots be wired to their own separate circuit breaker. I have run into the problem that if the boat swerves more than the autopilot can easily correct for (due to wind and/or sea conditions, or the *&^%$#@! auto tack "feature"

), then the ST-2000 (and probably the ST-1000 as well) will draw far more than the advertised current when the ram hits its internal stops and stalls the motor. The result is likely to be either a blown fuse, or tripped circuit breaker. Obviously if the current protection is shared, everything else on that circuit is going down too. If the current protection is a fuse, you'd better have a lot of them on board, and get handy at changing them in rough weather!

Hence the circuit breaker suggestion.

</li>
</ul>
Other than that, I'm very happy with the ST-2000.

I highly recommend getting an autopilot of some kind.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2005 : 06:10:56

Steve,

Take a look at Simrad as a alternative to Raytheon. It is a good unit which I have used for two seasons without complaint. It's best attribute over Raytheon is price.

In any case, the autopilot is far and away better then the tiller tamer. Heck, you can sail all day on an autopilot without touching the tiller, if you really needed to. A very good investment.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2005 : 09:27:29

this is a very timely discussion for me, as I'm going to install my Raytheon 2000 sometime this week, weather permitting. I bought mine from Sailnet when it was on sale, and it also came with a free remote control. I plan on installing mine just like Leon suggests, on top of the coaming, and I did get the 5" extension.
So Leon, how far forward of the rudder pivot point did you install yours? I'll mount mine closer than the specified distance. I'm sure that having a balanced rudder also helps, in addition to having the larger unit.
I have a dedicated circuit for this too. I actually have three switch panels mounted on the boat for all of my extra electrical doo dads. I try to follow ABYC standards as much as I can. This is good practice for when I buy a bigger boat someday.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2005 : 13:29:54

Autopilot tip you won't find in the manual...

Mount the tiller pilot on the side of the cockpit opposite the outboard motor. This way you'll have full access to the outboard when the autopilot is engaged.

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2005 : 22:19:21

Look in the tech section under "Classical Cat" for some pics of my tiller pilot I installed (easily) awhile ago.

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2005 : 22:51:26

Steve,

I put in a Simrad ST10 a couple of months ago and it was pretty easy even for a guy with 10 thumbs. My installation is quite similar to the one on Gary's Classical Cat in the tech section (being two slips away from him might have influenced this). For what it's worth:

1. Intall it on the opposite side from the engine.

2. Make sure the holes in the cantalever will be straight up and down when you screw it in to place for use.

3. Put in an inline fuse.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 12:25:44

Being right next to Mike, I don't really like the ST10. Its much more light duty than my Navico TP1800 and the autotack doesnt't seem to work. Does not steer a very good course, either. But it works.

Almost never use my autotack anyways (not anymmore).

These are great tools and I consider them to be essential for enjoying the day. Even with a boat full of 4 guests, I still hook it up. Never know when I'll need a steady hand on the tiller for a moment or even a couple of hours.

Tips

Never adjust the boat for the closest possible pointing and expect the autopilot to hold maximum speed. Always set 5 degrees off the wind and the AP will do a much better job in gusts, puffs, and waves.

Downwind with big following seas and strong gusts you are better off hand steering.

Never expect to win a race under autopilot.

The autopilot does a great job heaving to. Just hit autotack and leave the sheets alone. Our fins don't heave to well by themselves but under autopilot it works great!!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 19:44:42

Jim,

If I'm not mistaking, the Navico is a Simrad under another name.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 20:07:21

I have the Simrad TP10 and love it. It was very simple to install and operate. Here's the set up on my 250.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2005 : 12:18:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tompotter
 I have the Simrad TP10 and love it. It was very simple to install and operate. Here's the set up on my 250.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tom,

Would a portside mount autopilot work better for you?

For example, when raising my main, my routine goes something like this,...

1. With motor engaged, point into the wind, set autopilot
2. Go forward, raise mains'l
3. Return to cockpit, shut engine down, lift it up and then tilt
4. Disengage autopilot

Having my autopilot on the side opposite the outboard allows unfettered access.

Oh, BTW, that's one ugly duck!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2005 : 18:04:24

Don't like my duck? He shows up every time I go to the boat. (He is ugly isn't he). The TP is far enough back so there's is no problems reaching the controls of the OB. I wanted to keep the port side clear of the mount since that's where the transom ladder is. Looked like it would have been a good knee knocker on the port side.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2005 : 22:22:58

Hey Don
You forgot a step: open cool beverage

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2005 : 08:36:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 my Navico TP1800 and the autotack doesnt't seem to work. Does not steer a very good course, either. But it works.
Almost never use my autotack anyways (not anymmore).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My Simrad (Navico) TP-20 holds a very straight course using it's own internal flux gate compass, but from the day I installed it, brand new out of the box, it has never worked with my Garmin 168 in GPS Route-following mode, and the Autotack feature has never worked - it puts the helm hard over, but does not straighten out after turning through 100º, the helm stays hard over until I reset the unit

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2005 : 22:03:40

Jim doesn't like my TP10(not ST10) because we couldn't get it to work right. The autotack took the boat around about 180 degrees. Also I didn't get the pin hole lined up correctly and because of my attempted fix the unit wobbles to the point were it can't work properly.

I talked to a guy down the street who repairs F/A 18's and I'm going be getting the unit installed correctly. Once I do this, Jim will love my TP10. I don't know about the autotack problem though.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.