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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Mast light wiring.

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sodonnell
1st Mate

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76 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/27/2005 : 21:24:08

Looking for help making sense of wiring that SHOULD be in the mast.
I bought a 1980 C25 a couple of years back with all the wiring in the mast removed. Didn't matter as I only day sail but now I want to finish up the lights on the Mast.

Looks like I have a steaming or Deck light fixture mounted right at the spreader level. (Is this a deck light?)

The connector at the base of the mast looks like it has three connectors, which makes me think there was or should be another light somewhere on the mast (maybe at the top?)

One other related question; looking at the switch panel, I see "Mast" and "Running" switches. I'm guessing the "Mast" switch should control just the single light at the spreader level. What lights are tied to "running" ?

Thanks so much for any information.

Scott

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2005 : 22:19:44

Scott,

I believe that the stock mast lighting for your year C-25 was a steaming light (which also goes by the name of "masthead light") on the front of the mast near the spreaders, and an anchor light at the top of the mast. That would explain 3 wires - one for each light, and a shared return.

When I rewired my mast, I ran 5 wires - a common return or "ground", a steaming light, a foredeck light (floodlight), an anchor light, and a spare circuit at the masthead for future use. I also ran coax for my VHF antenna. I abandoned the original 3-pin deck connector and its wiring in the headliner. I installed a new 5-pin deck connector, and ran a new mast circuits harness from near the top of the compression post back to the distribution panel.

A lot of sailors are switching from separate steaming and spreader lights to a combined steaming and foredeck light fixture as I did. Being in front of the mast, a foredeck light doesn't shine in the helmsman's eyes - there's a V-shaped shadow behind the mast. I find a foredeck light is very helpful in dealing with foresails, anchors, docking, etc. It can also really light up a jib if you feel the need to be sure another vessel knows you're there.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 08:49:00

Gents,

My 88 tall rig came with a combination steaming light/deck light near the speaders and of course, an anchor light at the mast head.

Please do't take offens but,you need to know two things from a marine regulations standpoint. First, a 25 foot boat is required by state and fed law to have running lights (red/green in the bow, white on the stern), an anchor light, and a steaming light. A coast guard/DNR/marine police boarding and inspection will cost you if you don't have them or they do not operate properly.

Second, the only time a steaming light is to be used is when the vessel is under mechanical power (a motor) or under power and sail during periods of limited visibility. The only lights that should be shown while under sail only during periods of limited visibility are the running lights. Any other lights shown may cause confusion and liability questions if you are involved in an accident.

Finally, I found that the switches on my panel were not wired at the factory correctly. The anchor light operated the steaming light, the steaming light operated the stern light, etc. You will need to spend some time getting these organized when installing your system. Catalina Direct has the correct deck plug for your system. I don't recall how many pins except that it's more than three.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

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jlguthri
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 10:05:24

Not as useful as perhaps it should be, but sometime a picture helps.
http://www.westmouthbay.com/errata/Catalina25Manual.pdf
see pages 11,12

Edited by - jlguthri on 03/28/2005 10:05:58

sodonnell
1st Mate

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76 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 15:10:49

To all,

Thanks for the quick response.
In regarding to the switch panel.
I have on my panel
Running
Cabin
Bow LT
Anchor
Spreader

Forgive my lack of knowledge here.
But I need to clarify the basics here.

Spreader = Steaming light in the middle of the mast
Anchor = Just the (non-existant) Light a the very top of the mast.
Bow Lt = Red /Green up front
Cabin = All Interior lights.
Running = ?????? Just the Stern Light?

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 16:02:14

Scott,

Apparently when your boat was made a deck light was not installed in combination with steaming light. Your panel should have a separate switch for the running lights (bow and stern), anchor light, steaming light, deck light, and cabin lights. That's five switches on your panel.

Running lights (red/green bow and white stern)are generally on at the same time and should be on the same circuit. Everything else is individually selective for a particular situation and should be on their own circuit. If you find yourself without enough switches you may have to add a fused toggle switch or a bus bar behind your panel to free up a switch or two. If you still have your owners manual it will tell you what color wires lead to which device. On my boat black is for the deck light, red for the anchor light, blue for the cabin, white for the running lights, and yellow for the steaming light. Green is the ground.

Hope this helps

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - aeckhart on 03/28/2005 16:51:09

Gambit
Navigator

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USA
160 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2005 : 13:38:11

Thanks jlguthri for posting the link to the owner's manual. However, even upon review, I share in this confusion.

The panel indicates the following 5 circuits:
Running lights
Cabin lights
Bow Light
Anchor Light
Spreader light

But the lighting wiring diagram shows 4 circuits:
Running lights
Cabin lights
Bow light
Anchor light

I assume the Bow light is the one part way up the mast and that the reflector should be pointing down (towards the deck).
I assume the anchor light is for the light at the top of the mast (non-existent) on my boat.
It only shows hot wires going to the mast light connector.

So, are my assumptions correct?

Where is the spreader light? (hey if the bow light is on the mast all bets are off right?)

There is no mention of Steaming lights in this manual.

What I think is my bow light has the reflector mounted so the light points up. I suspect that it was put on backwards by the PO after making a repair.

In any case it is very helpful to see the lamp types and quantities so I can get that squared away before launch day on April 23.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 13:30:54

OK, lets start fresh.

The bow light(s) is configured one of two ways depending on the year your Catalina was made. On older boats it consisted of two lights, red and green, on either side of the bow. On later boats Catalina switched to a single red/green fixture on the bow pulpit. The bow light(s) should turn on and off with the white stern light which is located on the stern pulpit or affixed to the transom - port side, again depending on boat year. Under normal circumstances these lights are called "running lights".

The light half way up the mast near the spreaders and referred to on your panel as the "spreader light" is a combination "steaming" light and deck light. The white light facing outward (steaming light) is used only when motoring and identifies the boat as running on motor alone or motor and sails. The deck light is a utility light used to illuminate the deck at night. It is never used when under sail or motor - or not supposed to be anyway.

The anchor light is the light at the top of the mast and is used only when at anchor.The cabin circuit provides power to the cabin light fixtures.

All of these should be on separate circuits. The running lights (bow and stern) should be combined on a single circuit. If you add a lighted compass and lighted depth/speed instruments, they should also be on the running light circuit since you would want all the lights required to run the boat at night to turn on with one switch - at least I do.

Obviously you can't pile 3, 4, or more wires on a switch connection. It's a safety hazard. Purchase a bus board from West Marine, run a hot and ground to the board from the switch and panel and attach your device wires. I think bus boards come with 2 to 12 circuits each.

I'm not sure how this filters out on your panel. For sure you'll have to relabel to correctly identify each switche's function. I am not an expert on marine electronics and wiring. You may want to get a book called "The Small Boat Electrical Bible" or Nigel Calders book on maintenance and repair which has a good electronics section. There are many others. If you are still unsure of what to do, get an electrician, preferrably one who has experience with marine setups.

Hope this helps.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

jlguthri
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 16:07:57

My installation doen't exactly match the manual either.

The wiring diagram only shows the mast connector, not the individual lights.

The diagram shows two hots (+12VDC) and a ground to the mast connector. They share the common return (ground). You can verify this with a multimeter.

I plan to redo mine the way "I want it" as a next years project. This year, I'm trying to get my instrumentation straight. I'd personally like a seperate circuit for my instrumentation and even another circuit for my instrumentation's lighting. I also want to redo how my cabin lighting is switched.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2005 : 11:47:27

Josh,

Sounds good. We all have our own preferences. Skill and knowledge also play a role in the intricacies of the system you elect to set up. One thng you might do is check other boats out and see how they do it. One thing you should do though, is make a paper diagram which will include present and planned additions. There's not much room to work with on the C25 panel bulkhead. You want to stay neat and organized as you build your system.

Al
GALLIVNT #5801

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mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2005 : 20:22:48

On my 1979 boat(I'm the original owner)the bow light is on the mast for use under power, the running lights are the bows (red and green) and the stern light. This is how my panwl was orignally configured. I use the spreader light switch for my new deck light. The anchor light switch is for my tiller pilot and stereo.

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jlguthri
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2005 : 00:23:09

yea.. in my case it is as much of a case that I need to clean up the wiring of whomever redid the wiring before me... shoot, I don't think my panel is where it origianlly went anyway... if i have to redo it, might as well do it how i want :)

I'll second what you said... there is no bigger headache than troubleshooting unlabeled spaghetti, without a schematic...

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2005 : 06:39:23

jlguthri
Go to an auto parts or Radio Shack type store and get some wire markers...numbers that you wrap around the wires. Write down in a spiral book what wire goes where and what it's guage is if you can tell. This makes later troubleshooting and rewiring much easier than trying to figure out what color that faded wire was. These labels can also be applied to the switches and buss bars, making reconnections a lot more simple.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611766468&ccitem=

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2005 : 12:50:57

Just as a note: Spreader lights were (are) an option, not standard. They are lights fastened to the spreaders pointing down at the deck for night work on deck. It is common to find the spreader light switch used for some other application (tillerpilot, etc), where the spreader lights do not exist. Fair winds,. ron srsk Orion SW FL

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georgiaboater
1st Mate

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USA
72 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2005 : 23:10:49

And now I know why the "anchor light" is called the anchor light.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 09:32:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by georgiaboater
 And now I know why the "anchor light" is called the anchor light.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I run my anchor light to illuminate my Windex. I do not have enough circuits to have independant Windex and Anchor lights.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 10:56:29

I think there are four things that are causing a lot of the confusion with the lighting

1. On many boats, especially stink-boats, the bow light and steaming light are synonymous. The Red and the green are called sidelights or red and green lights.
2. Many an owner, a previous owner or a dumb previous owner has rewired the lights to serve their own needs, if they know that the bilge pump is on the second switch down, they really didn't care if that actually said radio....or stern light. While I’d love to believe none of us ever did this, I’m sure it happens.
3. Because of the numerous terminology, Spreader Lights, Deck Lights, Masthead light, anchor light, bow light, stern light, running lights, anchor light I think Frank and the boys might have used whatever labels were laying around as long as they worked... For example my boat has a spreader light which equals the steaming light. This is an original label plate as far as I can tell.
4. The addition of the deck light, I believe was an option early on and a regular feature later. Different owners are looking at different things when they attempt to describe what the current state is.

On the Flying Wasp, the panel was originally labeled as follows:
Spreader Lights for the steaming light
Masthead for the anchor
Running lights for the red/green and white lights

Once I rewire the remaining portion of the boat over the next 3 months I will install a new Blue Sea Systems 8068 panel that will give me 13 circuits and a ton of labels so everything can be named properly. This will replace the factory original panel and the supplementary Sea Dog electronics panel.

The important things to remember –

1. During a clear day, you don't even need to have lights installed, as long as you’re in before dark....

2. When in bad weather, low visibility or at night:
Under Power - Steaming light which shines only from the mid mast on forward 180 degrees. Even if you have cloth up, if the motor is running this needs to be on.

At any time the red/green (225 degrees total shining forward) and the stern light (135 degrees shining aft).

At Anchor - White 360 degree all around.

Shall I compound the issue and throw out the tricolor light as an option?
If we were just 2 feet shorter all we would need is a big flashlight.....
dw

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