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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Swing or Wing

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dberg
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/22/2005 : 09:51:29

I am a newbie to sailing and am looking to sail on Grand Lake in St Mary's Ohio. It is a shallow lake 6-8' deep that has an occasional stump along the lake shore. Most of the other boats on the lake are using center boards or swing keels but have broken some cables when the keel comes back down after a stump collision. I am pondering the thought of trying a wing keel. Any thought or ideas would be appreciated.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 10:21:54

the wing is a lot better if you can find one. Since you have a fresh water lake, the swing will work great but you have to keep up on the maintenance of the cable mechanism. Its calls for a haul out, inspection and repair if necessary about every 2 years. Parts are readily available.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 10:27:10

I think your flirting with disaster, no matter which keel you choose.
I'd be looking for a deep water lake even if you had to travel further. "Just my two cents"

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 11:01:44

Under the right, or better wrong, conditions the swinging keel coming down will do more than just break the pennant. If it hits the stops hard enough it can damage the fiberglass....more than one boat has sunk this way....

I wouldn't mess with it....WING.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 12:41:17

Or you can do what the rest of us do when we are approaching shore -- crank the keel up. If you're in fresh water, you can probably go longer between keel maintenance -- I replaced my keel hangers this year after five years in salt water and they were indistinguishable from the new parts. But I agree with bear: if the lake is really only 6 - 8 feet deep, I'd be sailing a smaller boat or looking for deeper water.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 05/22/2005 12:45:57

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 14:59:13

wing

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 15:15:52

Wing or shoal, there are a lot of nice shoal keel boats out there.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 17:34:55

dberg,

I've had my swing keel Catalina 25 for nearly 10 years. It's my second swing keel boat, and before that I had a centerboard boat. Several times I've run the C-25 swing keel up over obstacles and had it drop on the other side until the cable caught it. The sound that makes can cause you to wake up in a cold sweat for weeks afterward. However, nothing broke. These are not fragile boats.

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend any Catalina 25 for use in "<i>a shallow lake 6-8' deep that has an occasional stump along the lake shore.</i>" If you're worried about what hitting a stump might do to a swing keel boat, stop and consider what that same hit is likely to do to a fixed keel boat. I'd rather take that hit with a swing keel or centerboard, thank you very much!

-- Leon Sisson

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 20:11:18

In fact...
If I were in your situation I would probably be looking at one of the Macgreggor 26 boats from before the wave of insanity hit them. When you see how low they sit on a trailer you see that they can float in 2ft. Or there is a Hunter 22 that was the first hull ballast boat. It does not use water ballast, just lead or iron. It is a tender boat but they are very cheap and draw very little water. There are usually several of them on Ebay.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 22:47:09

In your waters, I'd probably opt for an O'Day 22 or 25. They have a shoal draft of 2'6" and I know of 3 people who never even lower the centerboard while sailing.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 10:53:26

Dberg,

Also bear in mind, if you DO choose a wing, the danger of hitting a submerged obstacle with your rudder. If I'm not mistaken, on the wing keel version, the rudder becomes the lowest part of the boat in the water, and therefore is likely to be the first thing to contact the underwater obstacle. This could tear the rudder off at the lower gudgeon leavin a large hole in it's wake (bad pun!

I know it's a long drive, but you could always come over to Alum Creek Reservoir's sailboat-only marina!

We could use more C25s!

Good luck regardless of what you choose.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 10:59:24

I agree with Leon. If you hit a stump with a swing keel boat hard enough to lift the 1500 lb. keel and drop it, breaking the cable, the likelihood is that you'll also do structural damage to the keel of a wing or fin keel boat, if you hit it with the same force. C25 swingers have been sailing Grand Lake St. Mary's for perhaps 20 years.

The key is, don't hit those stumps, and if you do, don't hit them hard. Talk to the long-time sailors on the lake. You can bet they know where all the serious stumps are located. On Brookville Lake, in Indiana, the state has marked some of the hard shallow objects with a buoy. If the state doesn't mark them, perhaps your club could mark the worst of them with a simple, home-made buoy.

People have been sailing some fairly sizeable boats on Grand Lake St. Mary's for a long time, so, the stumps are apparently a manageable problem. Talk to the locals. They'll know how to cope.

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Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 15:25:22

DBERG, I sail Our Catalina 25 TR/SK on Grand Lake st. Marys and along with other 25s and belong to the St. Marys Boat Club= web site is; www.stmarysboatclub.com The lake is 10 ft deep at its deepest

BUT it is rated as one of the 15 best sailing lakes in America by Sailing Magazine

. Please, see about joining our clubwe have about 100+ members . We do social functions as well as racing- We race "Leprechaun", as well as have a Catalina 22 Fleet. We also debated SWING Vs WING . there have been other members that have done wing. Becareful where you sail..Local knowlegde is important but either works. we DO NOT put our keel ALL the way down EVERY DAY! We have not Broken any Keel cables but we know others that have. Either boat is a good boat. Best of luck.. Alan

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