Association Forum - Cat 22 Guy Looking to Upgrade

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Cat 22 Guy Looking to Upgrade

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

rodandy
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
4 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/08/2005 : 15:38:14

About the time I get my Cat 22 in good shape, a friend makes me an offer I'm not sure I can refuse. $1,500 for a 1984 Cat 25 (fixed keel, standard mast, traditional cabin). Like most things it isn't that simple.

I live in Georgia and the boat is in South Carolina. I haven't laid eyes on it, but a power boat owning friend took pictures and after inspecting it inside and out reported it water tight and in good shape, just dirty.

Here comes the expense. A motor isn't part of the deal. It has no trailer. It might need new sails and new lines. It hasn't been out of the lake in almost 8 years. Before that, it was in salt water.

I guess I'm appealing to you to see if the way I'm thinking about this is reasonable. Here's what I've learned/believe might be my course of action. Asking for a survey for a $1,500 boat seems rude to me. I'd make it a condition of sale that I get to look at the bottom before I buy it.

I'll be taking it out of one lake and putting it into another. So that I don't have to worry about the bottom for a few years and since it has to come out of the water anyway, I want to get it bottom painted. I've found a reputable and well-known repair facility with a hoist on the lake in South Carolina that will do bottom paint for $30/foot. That's $750. A commercial transport company is willing to move it for $650, but on the Georgia end, there is no ramp steep enough to float it (I'm told after calling a half dozen marinas on the lake) and there is no hoist. I have to rent a crane and that's another $350-400. My reading suggests I need a minimum of a 10 hp (9.9) motor. I haven't had any luck finding anything used for under $1,500. If it really needs all new lines, that's around another $400. The little folding doors on either side of the head are missing. It has no stove. Might need another mainsail, but not immediately. Etc.

On the one hand, I figure for around $6k total investment, I'll have a pretty good boat. On the other, I don't know anything about Cat 25s and I need a sanity check.

What do you think? Do the numbers I'm mentioning track with your experience? What huge cost am I overlooking?

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2005 : 16:00:22

Instrumentation? That is if you want any. Not likely what's there works. The little things can add up fast.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2005 : 16:08:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rodandy
 About the time I get my Cat 22 in good shape, a friend makes me an offer I'm not sure I can refuse. $1,500 for a 1984 Cat 25 (fixed keel, standard mast, traditional cabin). Like most things it isn't that simple.

The 84 will have a lead keel with SS keel bolts, time in salt does not matter

I live in Georgia and the boat is in South Carolina. I haven't laid eyes on it, but a power boat owning friend took pictures and after inspecting it inside and out reported it water tight and in good shape, just dirty.

Here comes the expense. A motor isn't part of the deal. It has no trailer. It might need new sails and new lines. It hasn't been out of the lake in almost 8 years. Before that, it was in salt water.

 Borrow a trailer from one of the eight locations you talked to, I had a fellow offer to put new tires on my trailer if I would loan it to him for a road trip. With a trailer and enough rope you can launch anything once.

I guess I'm appealing to you to see if the way I'm thinking about this is reasonable. Here's what I've learned/believe might be my course of action. Asking for a survey for a $1,500 boat seems rude to me. I'd make it a condition of sale that I get to look at the bottom before I buy it.

I'll be taking it out of one lake and putting it into another. So that I don't have to worry about the bottom for a few years and since it has to come out of the water anyway, I want to get it bottom painted. I've found a reputable and well-known repair facility with a hoist on the lake in South Carolina that will do bottom paint for $30/foot. That's $750. A commercial transport company is willing to move it for $650, but on the Georgia end, there is no ramp steep enough to float it (I'm told after calling a half dozen marinas on the lake) and there is no hoist. I have to rent a crane and that's another $350-400. My reading suggests I need a minimum of a 10 hp (9.9) motor. I haven't had any luck finding anything used for under $1,500. If it really needs all new lines, that's around another $400. The little folding doors on either side of the head are missing. It has no stove. Might need another mainsail, but not immediately. Etc.

A 4 hp will move it, 9.9 is the max, many use 5s and 8s. Pay the marina where it is at to paint it, be there to see the bottom. You will ned to make the call as to whether or not you want it sanded all the way down before the paint job, good chance of it. Buy rigging as you go.

On the one hand, I figure for around $6k total investment, I'll have a pretty good boat. On the other, I don't know anything about Cat 25s and I need a sanity check.

What do you think? Do the numbers I'm mentioning track with your experience? What huge cost am I overlooking?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do it, join us.

Edited by - on

tcufrogger
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2005 : 16:44:37

I have both a C22 (We race it and my Father-in-law keeps it at his lake for crusing) and a C25. I love the C25 for the extra room and it handles pretty much the same as the 22. Good news is if you are use to working with Catalina Direct on parts for your C22 they also carry C25 parts as well.

Are you sure the fixed keel is not a wing keel? If it is a wing keel I bet you can load it on a ramp. I was not aware of Catalina making a Deep Draft Fixed Keel, but maybe they did. (I have a Swing Keel model).

As far as your other estimates. Are you sure it does not have some Gel-Coat issues? I would be surprised at $1500 that you would not need to do some deck or above the waterline patches.

Also, you might need to overhaul the pumbing system if it has a marine head and holding tanks (something you don't have to deal with on the C22). Cushions can also get pricy as well - but it sounds like a fun project boat if you have the time and at $1500 it is a real steal.

Good Luck!

John

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2005 : 17:05:34

Check your local lake for C25s and ask yourself is this boat worth $6000 plus lots of time and effort? $6K will buy a really well equipped older C25 in great condition.

The 1984 model is very highly regarded.

Even for $1500 I would not buy the boat without a good inspection.

Cushions worn out?
deck leaks?
gelcoat cracks?
fiberglass damage?
deck delaminations ?
galley, head, sink, through hulls OK ?
standing rigging ?
running rigging ?
anchors, ground tackle ?
winches?
deck organizers, lines led aft, etc?
roller furling?
electronics ?
how many sails and what condition?

Edited by - on

pjeffarch
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2005 : 07:46:59

On the surface, the price is right, if not a steal! I did lots of shopping before buying my 79 SK w/trailer and motor for $6K, and I know I got a deal. All depends on conditions - a survey will pay for itself.
Paul

Edited by - on

rodandy
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2005 : 10:51:27

Thanks for all the input. It help a great deal.

I was mistaken. Turns out it is a 1983 Cat 25 and the owner tells me it is a fixed keel. I believe that gives it about a 5 foot draft.

Instrumentation...Lake Allatoona in Georgia isn't terribly wide. It is pretty long, but I don't really need much in the way of instrumentation. I will install a depth finder just as I did on my Cat 22.

Trailer...I'd love to borrow/rent one. I have a truck that will pull the Cat 25, but I don't know how to get my hands on one in the north Georgia area. Any suggestions?

Motor...I read in the older owner's manual that the boat required a 5 to 10 hp engine with a long shaft. In the later owner's manual, it says a 10-15 hp motor is needed. Based on that, I figured something around 10 hp is needed with a long shaft. I imagine the only real time 10 hp is needed is putting up or taking down sails in a good breeze.

Paint...the boat has a few of scraps and dings on the hull, but none to speak of on deck. The dings have been fixed, but not since the boat was last painted. This makes the boat look crumby below the deck line and that probably is why is is going so cheap. I'm not knowledgable, but I figured some sanding would be required, but not necessarily down to the Gel-Coat. I was figuring the repair facility would tell me what was needed. The deck is fine and it has no spider cracks. I wanted the bottom painted by professionals. I will paint the deck myself at a later time. It appears that all it needs now on deck is wax. (BTW, I have pictures. Can someone tell me how to insert them in these notes?)

Standing rigging is fine.

A little rust on the safety line connectors.

It doesn't have a marine head.

The cushions are in surprisingly good shape, even the cockpit cushions.

One window on the port side has a small leak. The owner did a poor job of caulking it. I'd probably take it out and replace the seal.

No roller furling.

Teak is OK...needs to be varnished or Cetoled.

Running rigging is OK for now. Other deck lines will need to be replaced.

It has a 150 Geona and a working jib, both less than 5 years old. The main has been out in the weather. The lake got some wind and the owner didn't make it out to repack the main inside its cover for several months.

Thanks for the suggestions about a survey. Guess I need to do that.

I find it interesting how many boats are abandoned here and there. At my marina, several boats haven't had anyone on them for years. I can't imagine why anyone would make that kind of investment and allow a boat to get in terrible condition while they continue to pay slip fees. On the other hand, if you find one, it can make for a steal of a deal.

I've enjoyed working on my Cat 22. I suspect I like working on it almost as much as I like sailing it.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2005 : 14:44:14

Make sure you inspect that hull carefully. Look for delamination on deck and rotting wood inside the cabin. It wouldn't be a bad idea to pay someone to do this if you're not sure what to look for.

Unless there's something bad wrong that you haven't found yet, it sounds like a steal to me. You can pay several thousand more for a mid-eighties boat and still have to replace some sails and running rigging.

Keel: The fixed keel draft is 4', not 5. Great boat for a GA lake.

Engine: I use a 6hp Tohatsu. It's plenty for the lakes, even in rough weather with lots of wind. Just pull into your slip slowly as it doesn't stop you as fast as the 8 or 9.8. It has a smaller prop. The long shaft is 23" instead of the standard 20", so the prop will stay in the water. I picked mine up 3 years ago for less than 1300 on sale. It only weighs 55 lbs, so it's easy to wrestle with. Do a search on "engines" on this site and you'll find out more than you'd ever want to know.

Trailer: You might try calling some local marinas, brokers or repair shops. Maybe you could post an entry in our "Swap Meet" section. Several of our members are located near your area and might be willing to work something out.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2005 : 17:49:59

8hp is plenty, even if you take it out in the Ocean. Find an extra long shaft if you can, you will be glad you did. I didn't see anything in your budget for electrical work. The older Catalinas have really lousy electrical equipment, you may have to replace some wiring, possibly a panel.
You can get used sails from our swap meet section really cheap if you just need something to get started.
Allatoona gets really low in the winter, make sure you have plenty of water at your slip.
Good luck, I liked my catalina 22, but love my 25.

Edited by - on

dhunt
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2005 : 17:59:34

Hi Rob!

Haven't seen you on the dock at Harbortown in a few weeks. If you can find a c25 that's right, that'll make three of us in the marina!

As you know, Solitaire is a swinger with a keel that stays down most of the time . . . For my money, a swing or wing is the way to go on Allatoona . . . depth in the late autumn and winter is just too iffy but it's frequently windy and mild - and it's just us and the bass guys on the water that time of year . . . There are also a couple of little creeks I can point out that have lots of shade on those hot summer days (occupied by pontoons on the weekends, but weekdays are sooo much better anyway)

A swing or wing would be launchable at Harbortown - unfortunately Solitaire come to Georgia on a truck. The PO had her splashed at Little River Marina . . . no crane involved, but had to have the mast down to make it under the bridge.

Sharon and I spent all the memorial day weekend on Solitaire - 35 miles of sun and fun - great sailing on Sunday!

Edited by - on

georgiaboater
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
72 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2005 : 22:27:28

Well, is a deal a deal, a deal?

Check around our web site...there are a ton of 25s for sale ...but maybe not in your neck of the woods....i had my 25 up at lanier in dry storage this winter after moving it from kansas...now I have moved it to Pensacola....

Again, check around...you might be surprised what you can find.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.