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Southern Fried Battery - Charging Problem

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dhunt
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/30/2005 : 14:54:57

I have a charging problem - I have a nearly new 100 amp hour battery that appears to be cooked . . . its on the workbench now and I'm trying to bring it back to life but it looks bad. I ended last season with a dead battery that this one replaced . . . I attributed the problem to age, but now I think I may have a double batterycide on my conscience.

SYMTOMS - Early season through last week - no problems lots of juice for instruments, lights and music. Charging from motor (85 Evenrude Yachtwin) and, occasionally, a Sears three stage deep cycle charger (garage model that I keep on the boat, hooked to the battery switch so that I can isolate and charge one at a time), the charger is working, evidenced by increased voltage readings at the battery terminals when plugged into shorepower.

Last week - tell tale signs of weakening batteries so I pulled them both out for inspection . . .

Battery 1 - very low liquid in the cell nearest the positive terminal . . . shows 12v unloaded (lousy little $10 meter so no accuracy) but doesn't float the hygrometer at all!! It sat on a 6 amp charger for 4 hours with NO effect . . . I pronounce it DEAD

Battery 2 - needed a small amount of liquid and is taking a charge.

PRELIMINARY ASSUMPTIONS: I am cooking the batteries by overcharging them . . . I believe that the Sears charger isn't shutting down automatically anymore (cna't prove it) either because of using it to try to charge two batteries or from an unregulated surge on the 12 volt side caused by the motor.

OR - The motor/generator is the problem (motored for about 5 hours a week ago) and it's unregulated output is to blame.

SOLUTION - get a super-go-to-hell marine dual bank charger or a couple of WalMart trickle chargers? Regulate the motor output?

QUESTIONS:
Could the generator's unregulated output be the problem?
Any suggestions for regulating motor generated voltage?
Charger suggestions?

Thanks all -

David and Sharon Hunt on Solitaire, #800 sk-sr, Marietta GA

Edited by - on

dhunt
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2005 : 16:14:04

It's worse than I thought . . . the second battery is also not taking a charge.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2005 : 20:12:38

Hi David and Sharon,
Sorry about your fried batteries. Your problem is one that I have been looking into myself. No solution yet. For a charger I have bought a Xantrex three stage charger for a dual bank. Yes, it was about 175 bucks, but that's what you need to not cook batteries. From what I have read, the three stages are important.
I have a Honda electric start motor with a 12 amp charger on it, and am really concerned about overcharging. That's compounded by the fact that I have absorbed glass mat batteries, which are very sensitive to overcharging since once you cook off the electrolyty, they are toast. The upside is that they do not outgas chlorine, or hydrogen gas, and can work submurged (I hope that I don't test that one out) and take a charge quicker than a standard battery.
When I find out more about overcharging with an outboard, I'll let you know.
By the way, for my solar panels I have a three stage charge controller so I don't cook my batteries from my 11 watt panel, and I'm planning to add another 11 watt panel to it.
I hope that someone with a solution to the outboard charging steps up to the plate.
An additional problem is how to combine the batteries to the charger, or is it an isolator we need?
I'll check my nigel calder books.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2005 : 21:30:55

<center>A few misc. thoughts on troubleshooting battery charging.</center>

If you aren't taking accurate, reliable measurements, then you're not really troubleshooting, you're guessing, or acting on hunches, rumor and superstition. The same goes for not understanding how your charging system is wired. Like boat electrical systems in general, they're not all wired alike.

If a flooded cell battery is being consistantly overcharged, I'd expect it to be low on water. If a flooded cell battery doesn't seem to be using water, it's probably not being overcharged.

Don't overlook the possibility of bad wiring. Check for loose or corroded connections first. Also keep an eye out for nicks in wire insulation with greenish stains around them.

If one cell consistantly needs more water than the others, then that cell is probably bad, and so the whole battery is probably bad. To verify bad cells, check the specific gravity of the electrolyte after sustained charging, and before adding any water. (In other words, if it needs water, add it before charging for a while.) Specific gravity of all cells low but nearly equal probably indicates poor charging. (Not enough volts, amps, or time to pay back what was used.) Uneven specific gravity between cells, particularly if several are fully charged (high specific gravity), and one or more are way lower, tends to indicate that the low cells are bad (shorted or sulfated).

Some smart chargers have a fourth stage, equalization. This is never an automatic feature. You must activate it manually. The equalization stage is supposed to reverse the sulfation process. If you have that feature, read the instructions carefully several times. Self-test question: Would it be OK to listen to the stereo or VHF while waiting for the equalization stage to work its magic?

To determine if your motor's alternator has a voltage regulator, connect the alternator output to a 12V 25W bulb and DC volt meter in parallel with the battery disconnected. (Meter plus to alternator plus, meter minus to alternator ground. Alternator plus to one terminal of bulb, alternator minus or ground to other terminal of bulb.) If the bulb filament burns out like a flashbulb when you rev the motor, then the alternator isn't regulated. If the bulb brightness looks about normal, check the reading on the volt meter with the motor revved up a bit. That's your regulated output voltage. In fact, you should see the voltage rise and then level off as you slowly increase motor RPM from idle.

If you think you might need a "battery isolator" then take a close look at a "battery combiner" instead.

You don't get what you don't pay for in smart chargers.

Happy troubleshooting!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2005 : 22:46:00

Hey Leon,
Thanks for the input.
On your treatise on testing the motor alternator. If the bulb burns out, will you then blow diodes on the alternator? I have read that if you run an engine with an alternator, and turn the battery switch to off, you burn the diodes.
Maybe I'll just contact Honda and find out if their alternator is regulated.
I'm still studying the difference between battery isolators vs. combiners
So much to learn. But I wanna do it right.

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2005 : 02:28:15

Hi all,

To me, electricity is akin to magic. Folks keep talking about electrons running down a wire, ok, show me one.

That said, I had a cooked battery problem a few years ago when my charger fried. Of the five boats on my dock, four had electrical problems suddenly upon the arrival of a gypsy houseboat that tied up and stuck their two power umbilicals into two plugs, separated by 40 feet or so.

When the complaints to the marina were investigated, they told us that the houseboat was the cause, something to do with faulty wiring and inverted grounds. The houseboat disappeared.

I decided to just replace the charger and batts. Now I only have the charger on while I am present at the dock. I also installed a battery checker, one of those gizmos from a camper store, that tells me the condition of each batt. I have learned that my batts stay practically fully charged just from the outboard.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
On Vacation for 3 months in Denmark

Edited by - on

Designwiz
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2005 : 11:53:53

Hi:
I guess I'm a member of the "charge club" as well. My two solar panels keep running the batteries low on acid and I have to add distilled water once a month.
I need to put a regulator in the system. Needless to say it will be my next project.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2005 : 12:10:38

I'm the happy owner of a working system.....But, I'm always reading. There are regulators available to put between your engine altrernator and the batteries.....

Edited by - on

dhunt
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2005 : 16:06:32

OVERHAUL!! I am now using my new 10/10 dual bank, distributed load, smart PROMARINER 120 charger to top off two new West Marine Grp 24, 75 amp hr deep cycle batteries. I will install this system on the boat tonight and see what happens. The charger says the it will 'never overcharge' a battery.

I got 24's because I can set them side by side under the starboard settee (may help alleviate the 'Catalina List' and will be easier to service). In the compartment with them will be a gallon of distilled water and a hygrometer. As soon as I can find one, I'll add a battery condition meter.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2005 : 16:21:46

Hey Oscar.
Good to hear from you man. How's life in the 42 foot world?
I know there are regulators for larger boats with alternators on the diesels, but I'm wondering about smaller regulators on our small outboards.

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2005 : 02:49:58

Life in the 42 world is great. It's still a boat and requires constant attention, but I finally have her somewhere close to where I want her....If mileage is any indication, I've had over 2500nm of fun in a year....

Does alternator size (ie amps) make a difference? volts is volts.....but what do I know....Check Nigel Calders 12V bible.....The smart regulators are 'spensive!!!
Maybe you can do with something automotive?

Edited by - on

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