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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Fin or Swing, trailer or cradle Brookville IN?

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Graham K
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/14/2005 : 23:43:28

Here are the facts:

I will never trailer sail it to other lakes.
I will always (until retirement) sail my boat on Brookville Lake in southeastern Indiana
It is a 6000 acre flood control lake with a sailing season of May 1 to October 1.
I live 1 hour from the lake in Cincinnati.
The boat will be moored or slipped for the entire season.
There is one boatyard, 1 hour from the lake
For $1300 the yard will splash the boat in the spring and haul it and power wash it in the fall
Storage at the yard is $300 per year with a restriction that no power washing, sanding, or blasting may be done in the yard.

Towing:
The thought is that if I launch and haul myself, I will either borrow my dad’s V8 Toyota Tundra with a 6000# limit, or
Rent some type of truck with a hitch (curious if anyone is done this) for the twice a year effort

Why a Catalina 25 1978-1984?
Classic lines
Best interior layout for the family situation
Good dealer support
Strong Sailing Association
Easy to find on the second hand market
Reasonable price
The motor is detachable and therefore I can transport it for service (I am not a gearhead, and do not know engines) as opposed to a 27 with an inboard.

Required features:
Dinette version (don’t like the bulkhead table)
Standard rig
Porta Pottie
Sink in the head compartment (Admiral’s requirement)

Keel:
Wing is out right off the bat. To rare and the most expensive of the three –out of the budget.
It’s between the swing and the fin.

Fin with Trailer:
Can I ramp launch this or is a hoist required? If I hoist launch (the lake has a hoist) how difficult is it to step the mast on the water?
I can tow the boat to my driveway and powerwash and paint then tow it to the yard for storage. As far as painting goes, can I prop up one corner of the boat and screw down the pad, paint, screw up after drying, then do the others, or is a lift required? These seem to be a bit harder to find than fin’s with a cradle, so I’d think I’d pay a bit of a premium.

Fin with cradle/Swing with cradle:
This locks me in to using the yard for the $1300 per year launch/haul fee.
Locks me into using the yard for storage.
Locks me in to the yard performing the powerwashing and painting for additional fees
Chances are I’ll find most of these on the coast or the great lakes, meaning I’ll incur transport fees after purchase in order to get it to Cincinnati

Swing with trailer:
I can launch and retrieve myself (see towing section above)
I have never been comfortable with the idea of underwater moving parts (swing keel) and their associated maintenance. I am not sure about what all is entailed. Will a hoist be required for maintenance/replacement of keel parts?
DIY painting seems a bit harder as with a swing on the trailer skids, it seems to me a hoist is required.

WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE IN MY SITUATION? WHY?

Sorry for the long email, but, according to the Admiral, I’ll only have one chance to get this right, so I figure I’d be very thorough. Thanks in advance. I’ll keep you posted on the decision. I am especially interested in hearing what C25 sailors on Brookeville Lake have to say!

Graham in Cincinnati

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2005 : 10:32:11

For freshwater use I'd absolutely get a swinger on a trailer.

1) You'll save $1,300 per year in yard fees. Over 5 years that nearly pays for the whole boat.

2) When the time comes, far easier to sell as it's transportable.

3) There is really not that much maint on a swinger in freshwater.
Starting with one in good shape, You'll probably never have to mess with it.

I have renewed all the swing keel parts while on the trailer. Exception will be
if the pivot hole in the keel is wallowed out it will need to be taken off and machined.
For general maint, including bottom painting, you'll need (3) bottle jacks and some blocking.

4) I've painted mine on the trailer.
No worries, only takes a few hours.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2005 : 13:05:13

Graham, welcome to the forum and to Brookville Lake. I had my C25 FK there from 1981 until this summer, and loved both the boat and the lake. The fin keel can be trailer launched and retrieved at Brookville Lake if the trailer has a tongue extension. (It can be launched and retieved without one, if you do it the way that some on this forum suggest, but I am hesitant to recommend that approach, having seen such a launch go badly awry.)

Nevertheless, the cost of using the hoist at Brookville is so nominal that I usually used it going in and coming out. It saves labor, as well as wear and tear on the tow vehicle.

The easiest way to step the mast is to round up 2-3 other sailors on the docks and ask them to help you raise it. People at Brookville all have a custom of helping each other with mast raisings and boat launchings. Don't be shy about asking.

IMHO, the fin keel boat is the all-around best sailing C25. The swing keel is next, and the wing is third. But all perform very well.

Your "required features" will limit your choices. When you're looking for a used car, you might find many dozens to choose from on the car lots and in the classified ads. But, when it comes to used C25 sailboats in the Cincinnati/Dayton area, you will only have a small handful to choose from. To me, it would seem a shame to reject the nicest boat overall just because it is a tall rig or a traditional interior. Many of us believe the overall condition of the boat should take precedence over most other considerations. If you happen to find a really nice boat at a fair price, don't pass it up without giving careful consideration to the long-term importance of some of the features that you consider required.

Edited by - on

swarchitect
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2005 : 09:33:02

Graham,
I have a Catalina 25 on Brookville lake. I am at Hanna Creek dock #3. Mine has the fin keel, standard rig, and I bought it without a trailer. Stictly sail floated it off the trailer when they delivered that first season. I can't imagine though trying to float it onto the trailer, but since it only costs $30 to use the hoist, it seems to me a no-brainer.
I bought a trailer last summer, and have done the bottom painting etc. on the trailer in the driveway, and yes you can, alternately lower the struts for painting. While my trailer has a tongue extension, it is no where near long enough to float the boat on or off. This is my first seaon at Hanna Creek, and like Steve said, everyone there on the dock is very familiar and very helpful at mast raing time. Even when I had my boat at Kent's, I did my mast raising at Hanna Creek for the help and the long docks.
The fin keel, I believe to be a great sailing boat, and comfortable to hang out on at the docks. I admit though, I have never even put the table down, as more often than not, we eat in the cockpit.
Stop by sometime if you would like to go out for a sail.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2005 : 16:33:18

Fin
At the nationals this year it was obvious that the fin is the better boat, this forum and the lack of PHRF data would have you think the swing is a performance contender but I would maintain that in the hands of good sailors the fin will be the better boat every time. The only swinger in contention this year was sailed by a man who is very good and had good crew. Lessor of a skipper or crew would not have faired so well. I loved my swinger but given the choice you cannot go wrong with a fin, it is about sailing after all.
Trailer, be independent. No two years are ever alike.

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2005 : 00:03:01

Graham,
I sail a C-25 about an hour west of you in Indy. She's a swinger, tall rig and I trailer her in and out each season with a trip or two to Lake Michigan during the summer. I would contend that if you're not racing in the Nationals, and you're just going to enjoy the cruising experience, the swinger is a good deal. There are many who will cast a gloom and doom upon you if you have a swinger and tell nightmare stories about failures and sinking. Some will also suggest a conversion to the wing keel. Truth be told, some simple maintenance and inspection will go a long way in making a swinger a great choice for trailering and gunk holing. And when you run aground (and you will eventually) all you have to do is crank her up and float off! And remember this, the best C-25 keel, rig, interior, outboard configuration is the one YOU own and love!

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2005 : 22:53:36

Jim, That Was A GREAT Statement about The BEST Catalina 25....

We sail on Grand Lake St. Marys, With the St. Marys Boat Club, We have a Catalina 22 fleet and quite a few Catalina 25s. St Marys was rated as one of the 15 Best sailing lakes in America by Sailing Magazine. The only downside

to the lake is its shallow...10 ft at its deepest. So therefore a swing keel is Great! And again along with some normal maintaince,just like your car! Good Luck with YOUR BOAT

Fair Winds...

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.