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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2005 : 14:33:48

It sounds as though John G. is unhappy with the performance of the officers of the last few years.

Personally I think they have done one heck of a fine job.
Derek

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2005 : 16:40:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 It sounds as though John G. is unhappy with the performance of the officers of the last few years.

Personally I think they have done one heck of a fine job.
Derek
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Derek,
That's an assumption that is not based in fact. I certainly meant no offence.
The post was meant to get more casual sailors into the idea that they can and should have a say in the association.

I would like to see more candidates come from the local fleets, like Jim Baumgart and Gary Bruner who came to national office from building successful local fleets.

The Nationals are good for the association however the last one had 9 boats. The one before that had twice as many but we have about 900 members.
Focusing more on the cruising owner and local groups, will in my opinion help strengthen the association.

As it is we have one candidate who has proposed that the Vice Commodore’s seat be held only by hosts of the National Regatta**. That would take the election of that office away from the membership.
 **The current officers are to be applauded for resisting this proposal.

I would like to see the trend go the other way where we find ways to benefit the vast majority of owners who sail our terrific boats for the pure joy of it.

Edited by - John G- on 08/22/2005 18:33:07

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2005 : 19:30:15

I have no interest in joining this conversation and this response is irrelevant to same, but for the sake of clarification I would like to state that the Association had 637 active Members as of July.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2005 : 19:36:50

I don't want to run for 2 offices. God help me if I got elected to both! So I want to pull my name from consideration for the post of VC.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2005 : 19:39:00

I don't think our new officers should be more racing oriented, or more cruising oriented. I'd like to see our officers promote the interests of all our members, including both the racers and the cruisers.

In recent years, the national regatta has generated a lot of excitement among the members, whether they actually raced their boats or not. While only nine boats raced in the last regatta, additional members attended and crewed and enjoyed the event. The regatta was the subject of much animated and interesting discussion on the forum. Besides, even if only two or three boats raced in the event, how could anyone object to an event that costs the national association practically nothing?

For those who are more interested in cruising, the national association has done a great job of promoting the growth of the roster of local fleets. Until Don Peet and others got involved a couple of years ago, the roster of local fleets had died on the vine. Since then, some of those fleets have been organizing rendevous and cruises, and promoting them on the forum. It appears that an increasing number of members are getting interested in participating.

I've followed the national association off and on since 1983, and it's probably healthier now than I've ever seen it. I hope the new officers don't change their focus one bit. We should be so lucky as to get a new slate of officers who do as good a job in all respects as the last ones.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2005 : 20:11:11

Current nominees as of 08/22

Commodore
Rev. Dr. Don Peet
Captain Jim Baumgart

Vice Commodore
Frank Hopper

Secretary
Kris Underwood

Treasurer
J.B. Manley

Chief Measurer
Duane Wolff

Frank Hopper Association Secretary

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2005 : 22:22:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It is about time that the 25/250 owners are represented by sailors that understand and are receptive to our vast majority (900 strong) of sailors who race and sail locally.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How can you state that Derek's comments are assumptions not based in fact. (the only part that isn't fact is your misstatement of the membership numbers) When you start your sentence with "it is about time ... " you have two possible meanings. The first being that new officers have been elected and you are happy that they represent the entire association. The latter meaning being the current administration has not lived up to the aforementioned and need to be replaced. Since the elections have not been held, that only leaves one interpretation.

I might add that Frank Hopper came from starting a successful fleet, as did our Commodore. Don has also done everything in his power both as commodore and in his previous role to develop fleets - including traveling to meet with members and fleet captains prior to his election to commodore.

I admit, I've had much of my work in the association go toward racing. However I've done multitudes of things to work with cruisers and racers alike, including Affiliate programs, working on development of a archived forum and working with other
officers regarding the proposed outsourcing of our ships store. Not bad for a job description that exists solely to race.

In regard to your statement<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As it is we have one candidate who has proposed that the Vice Commodore’s seat be held only by hosts of the National Regatta**. That would take the election of that office away from the membership.
**The current officers are to be applauded for resisting this proposal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank will be the first one to admit that he suggested this, and as secratary he will also be the first one to tell you that it was merely a suggestion. It was never motioned, seconded, voted on or carried, put into draft or brought in front of the general membership for adoption. The current bylaws that are posted for review and adoption were passed unanimously.

Edited by - Champipple on 08/23/2005 10:47:01

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2005 : 10:30:38

Thank you for the comments Duane and Steve M.- they express my sentiments better than I could have done.
Derek

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2005 : 10:35:45

Let's see if we can't turn this into a productive discussion. Feel free to participate.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John G-
 The post was meant to get more casual sailors into the idea that they can and should have a say in the association.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It would be helpful, John, if you would share how you define "the association", as I think it may be slightly different from others' definition. For me "the association" is nothing other than a virtual entity that facilitates the gathering of people with like interests. It is required to be virtual due to the geographical dispersement of its members and, therefore, consists of this website and forum. Its only obligation, and in reality only feasible action, is to provide the members with information and a means of communicating with one another; except of course the facilitation of the members' Mainsheet subscription, which could as easily be managed by Eagle Ltd. without the association playing intermediary.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John G-
 Focusing more on the cruising owner and local groups, will in my opinion help strengthen the association.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I, and probably others, would be interested and receptive to your thoughts on this subject. Do you have something specifically in mind?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John G-
 I would like to see the trend go the other way where we find ways to benefit the vast majority of owners who sail our terrific boats for the pure joy of it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Again, I'd be interested in what you might have in mind?

Finally, a repeated word of clarification about Nationals. The National Championship Regatta is NOT an association event, although it may have that appearance. That appearance has definitely been reinforced recently through the coincidental (or perhaps not so coincidental) fact that a serving officer also happened to be the primary spokesman for the organizing fleet. However, the Nationals is a fleet event that is only sanctioned and sponsored by the association. It is natural, of course, that the association's resources should also be made available to the organizing fleet for communicating the details.

If I may be so bold, many, including myself, lament the fact that locale, financial resources and personal issues limit one's participation with other Catalina 25/250 owners to just this virtual association.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 08/23/2005 11:14:50

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2005 : 20:59:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 I have no interest in joining this conversation and this response is irrelevant to same, but for the sake of clarification I would like to state that the Association had 637 active Members as of July.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

 
Thank you for the correct membership count. I was misinformed.

Also....
Thank you for your restraint.
"I have no interest in joining this conversation"
Which is it? "No interest" or an in depth look at the association?

Derek's misrepresentation of my post has muddied the waters enough.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2005 : 10:36:46

I don't think that I misrepresented your post John. It was a reasonable interpretation of your words, and I know that more forum contributors thought the same.
I would be most interested in your response to Duane's questions.
Derek

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2005 : 12:07:40

I don't think that I misrepresented your post John. It was a reasonable interpretation of your words, and I know that more forum contributors thought the same. I would be most interested in your response to Duane's questions. - Derek

I agree. I don't think it is fair to single out Derek ... Derek simply put into words what Frank and I were both thinking. How else could we have interpreted the comment?

I think Steve did a nice job of putting things in perspective, and Duane's reaction/questions are fair. FWIW, I think John G. has the best interests of our Association at heart ... I'd like to think that his statement wasn't a condemnation of past/present officers, but a confirmation that our Association is on the right track.

Whatever the case, we've got too many positive things going on with our officers and membership to let this get in our way ... I think we should write this off and move on.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2005 : 12:35:05

Looking back on this thread, I'm not sure John's original post was intended so much as a criticism of the past officers as it was an expression of his thinking about the direction that the association should go in the future.

Some of us construed his comments as criticism, and we came to the officers' defense. But, in his August 22 post John said "I certainly meant no offence," and in hindsight, I believe that. I agree with Buzz that it's just a misunderstanding, and we should move on.

We're all friends here.

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2005 : 13:36:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Looking back on this thread, I'm not sure John's original post was intended so much as a criticism of the past officers as it was an expression of his thinking about the direction that the association should go in the future.

Some of us construed his comments as criticism, and we came to the officers' defense. But, in his August 22 post John said "I certainly meant no offence," and in hindsight, I believe that. I agree with Buzz that it's just a misunderstanding, and we should move on.

We're all friends here.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

 
Thanks Steve,
When I first wrote that and sent it out I saw it as a call to action and indeed we have a candidate because of it.

As for answering J.B.’s comments, I’ll try.
” For me "the association" is nothing other than a virtual entity that facilitates the gathering of people with like interests. It is required to be virtual due to the geographical dispersement of its members and, therefore, consists of this website and forum.

I am reluctant to see this definition of the association confined to the forum and web site. Two years ago this led to a controversy over the elections in that many members were left out. After widening the notice of the nominations to the TellTale and Mainsheet we ended up with more candidates and Gary Bruner was nominated and elected V.C. He and his fleet have become a vital part of the association.
IMO we are a “National Association” and the combination of the local fleets, [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/index2.html"] our web site[/url], the forum, the [url="http://www.mainsheet.net/"] Mainsheet Magazine [/url] and the TellTale forms a network of communications and participation. The recent officers have made forming a fleet more direct and easier and we are slowly but surely get a stronger fleet structure. In the last couple of years Frank and Arlyn have made the Tech Tips part of the Mainsheet a valuable asset to the membership.
Again IMO the fleets will be the strongest part of the association and I hope to see more candidates come from their ranks.
However in response to my post many were reluctant to step forward to run because they felt they had to focus on racing and the nationals to be a good officer. Hopefully they will look to Jim Baumgart who by his actions both on and off the water has proved that a serious cruiser can and should be part of the officer’s ranks.
As I said before the Nationals are important to the over all mix and as more local fleets are formed I believe the Nationals will be a vital part of the year. Maybe more fleets will send their top sailors, as Fleet #94 did this year, and there could be regionals as well as the Nationals.
I would ask anyone to look at the stories we have gotten published in the [url="http://www.mainsheet.net/"] Mainsheet.[/url] We have a great many sailors who cruise our wonderful boats all over the country and farther than anyone would expect.
My post was sent as a call to action to participate in the association by running for office.
As it is, we currently have only one office with multiple candidates. I hope that before the nominations close a few more will step forward.

BTW I actually only posted the message above to keep the nominations thread active.

Underlined words are a HOT link.

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2005 : 22:20:19

I am curious of the dates that voting will take place. If I read the by laws correctly, the office holders begin their time on October 1st. That will be here before we know it.

Thanks!

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 09:51:22

Kris,

You've identified one of the weaknesses in the current by-laws. By inference, the elections need to be completed and announced by September 30th. Arrangements are being finalized for the independent third-party tabulation, and the ballots are currently being prepared. Preparation of the ballots this year is complicated by the fact that we will be voting on a new Constitution and By-Laws, modified C25 Design Class Rules, modified C250 Design Class Rules, and Capri 25 Design Class Rules in addition to the election of Officers. As you can imagine, that's a lot of documentation to be incorporated into an electronic ballot. People more knowledgeable than me are working on figuring it all out, which is probably why no one else responded to your post.

Thanks for making the inquiry, as I'm sure others were curious, as well.

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 13:39:34

Sounds good to me!

Thanks

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 20:15:03

I am, as most know, happy to see the consideration given to the Capri 25's being incorporated into the association. I believe it will be a benefit to both Capri owners and the association. I do not however, see how the Capri 25 design class rules can be incorporated into the balloting since no associate members who own Capri 25's, like myself, can vote on these. I'm not particularly knowledgable about how these associations work, so I do not want to bog down this thread with minuatae. If someone cares enough to take this to email, I'd be grateful for the explanation and discourse.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2005 : 10:26:20

Rick,

One of the primary question being asked of the Catalina 25/250 National Association is do we want to include Capri 25's in our membership. At this point the entire membership can vote on design class rules for either the Catalina 25 and Catalina 250. Therefore, under the existing Constitution and By-laws the existing membership can vote to change or add or modify the class by-laws. We don't think this is right, and are limiting the voters to only those who boats in the restructured association.

So, the existing Catalina 25/250 National Association members. under the existing constitution can make the changes and approve the Capri 25 design class rules. After the approval of the revided by-laws only Capri owners will be able to change Capri 25 design rules, only Catlaina 25 owners will be able to vote for changes in the Catalina 25 design class rules, and only owners of Catlina 250's will be able to vote on changes for the Catalina 250.

Does this make sense?

As members like you become regular members of the Catalina 25 Built Association, we hope to have the strength in that portion of the association to evaluate and make needed changes in the Design Class Rules for the Capri's. That's one reason we want a separate measurer for the Capri 25's

I hope Rick this answers you questions!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2005 : 10:30:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I do not however, see how the Capri 25 design class rules can be incorporated into the balloting since no associate members who own Capri 25's, like myself, can vote on these.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">At this time, there aren't any Capri 25 owners who are members of the Catalina 25-250 National Association, and entitled to vote on their own rules. It seems to me that there are two ways the situation can be handled:

1) The present members of the Catalina 25-250 National Association can vote to include Capri 25s in the association, and also vote to adopt a set of Capri 25 racing rules. After you Capri 25 owners join the new national association, then you'll be able to amend your own rules any way you wish.

2) The present members of the Catalina 25-250 National Association can vote to include Capri 25s in the association, and after you Capri 25 owners join the new national association, then you'll be able to adopt your own set of racing rules.

The former approach makes sense to me. Either approach will allow you to adopt any set of rules you wish. The first approach will just provide you with a set of rules to get you started, which you can then modify, or throw out and completely re-write, as you see fit.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2005 : 11:59:42

Thanks guys for the explanations. The approach you are taking does make sense to me now. Should work well.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2005 : 18:03:54

I would like to be the Vice Commodore of the Catalina 25-250 National Association.

VICE COMMODORE: Shall, in the absence of the Commodore, preside and perform the duties of the Commodore and such other duties as specified by the Commodore. The Vice Commodore shall serve as Chairman of the National Championship Regatta and appoint the Race Committee. The term of office shall be for one (1) year.

My qualifications for the position include:
A year as the Secretary of the Association.
A good working relationship with the current officers.
Past host of the Association National Championship.
Strong presence on the National Association website.
A genuine desire to help fellow sailors and promote our association.

Frank Hopper
Captain, Catalina 25 Fleet #95
Secretary, Catalina 25-250 National Association
Technical Editor, Catalina 25, Mainsheet Magazine
http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2005 : 15:15:32

Last night at the monthly officers meeting, which included staff, we established the following timetable for the elections.

1. Nominations will close at 12:00 am pst, tonight, August 31, 2005. The niomiations have been open for about a month, and we want to get things set so that new officers can take office the first of October.

2. Vice Commodore, Jim Baumgart, will prepare the ballot and distribute it to the membership - both by e-mail and in the members only section. Voting will include (1) the slate of officers for 2005 - 2006, the entirity of the new constitution and by-laws, including the Capri 25 as part of the Association, and the Capri 25 design Class rules, the revised Catalina 25 design (racing) rules and the revised Catalina 250 design (racing) class rules.

3. Votes will be submitted electronically to Bill Holcomb, who has graciously agreed to be tabulator of election results. Ballots may be submitted up until and through September 25, 2005.

4. Results announced as soon as Bill has completed tabulating the ballots.

5. New officers will begin their tenure as your officers on October 1st.

Please re-read the proposed by laws and various racing rules. We made chages last night - The proposed name will be Catalina/Capri - 25/250 International Association. We have had recent new members from elsewhere in the world, thus international. And, at GAry Bruner's request we have included words that allow commercially available rudders, designed for the Catalina 25.

I guess that about covers what we discussed last night.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2005 : 01:24:30

You officers and staff are doing a fine job, IMHO, and I am glad you worked out the differences expressed earlier in this thread. Email is great, but it sure is easy to mis-understand people because all we get are words, not tone, etc. It is one reason I use so many caps....to emphasize KEY words and suggest some tone to it all.

Thanks again for the work on the rudder issue. Now, if we could just get those 2004 "National" results posted....;)

Gary B.
Fleet 94 Captain
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2005 : 23:51:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 I have no interest in joining this conversation and this response is irrelevant to same, but for the sake of clarification I would like to state that the Association had 637 active Members as of July.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

 
I was given the number 900 by Don Peet our past Commodore and now Jim Baumgart our new Commodore is using the 900 member number.
Do we have an accurate member count?
With only 46 or so members voting we have a serious disconnect between the paying members and the governance of the association, no matter if the number is 600+ or 900+.
I hope that this can be addressed so many more members feel it is in their best interest to participate.

Edited by - on

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