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Tow vehicle surprise

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/30/2011 : 19:43:58

I've been a long time proponent of using a 3/4ton truck to pull our boats. BUT, today I pulled it with my Ford Ranger Edge!

OK, I only needed to move it ~4-5 feet so that I could clear the stinkpot parked behind me at the marina when I raised the mast. I was surprised that the tongue weight didn't lift up the front tires off the ground. In fact, the rear springs barely compressed. I pulled it out, raised the mast and pushed it back.

Maybe a 150 is enough for that wing keel??????? Nah, doubt it.

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 10:00:54

I pulled my 88 C25 from Milwaukee, WI to Houghton, MI, (400 miles) with an Ford F150 with no problem at all. I subsiquently pulled it to and from our local ramp (3 miles), launched and retrieved, with a Chevy 1500 over a period of 12 years. Again, no problems. My 1500 was a short box so I wouldn't want to haul with it on the freeway, and I needed a brake job after the sixth year. Fron that aspect a heavier duty truck is better.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2011 : 16:57:06

Two weeks ago I used a rented Ford F-150 to tow my Catalina 250 WK from Columbia, SC to Charleston, about 100 miles, without any tow vehicle problems. I did keep the speed below 55 mph at all times.

When I got to the Remley Point boat ramp I noticed that the trailer was sagging and well on its way to breaking in half. I think the reason was too much weight on the front of the trailer plus surge brakes with no hydraulic fluid. The empty hydraulic mechanism allowed the trailer to slam forward several inches whenever I applied the truck's brakes.

The structure was not weakened by rust. So a local trailer shop rewelded the three torn steel joints and added reinforcing structure. I'll load the boat six inches further aft in the future. And I will block the surge brake actuator from moving until it can be repaired.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2011 : 21:18:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">BUT, today I pulled it with my Ford Ranger Edge!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And that's with a 3500# tow rating.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 08:08:15

I've used my 2003 Chevy Silverado 1500 to tow my C250 WK several times, once from Tahoe to Chico and never had any problems.

Dan #727

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 08:17:38

You can have "no problems" towing across a parking lot with a Smart Car... You can have "no problems" towing down a highway with a Cherokee... You have "no problems" until suddenly there's an unexpected problem. Then it's a real problem, and you're responsible for your choice of a vehicle capable (or not capable) of handling it. I watched it happen (from 50 yards back) one day--it wasn't pretty.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/15/2011 08:21:43

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 08:45:21

Well to all my fellow sailors who advised me on a tow vehicle I towed "Brandy" up to the lake with the new GMC Acadia Saturday. Left at 6:30 and the first thing I did when I got on the open road was a max braking stop, seemed normal stopping distance to what I was use too. Going up the one steep hill xmsn downshifted to 4th gear and stayed there, plenty of power left if I needed it. Trip [38 miles] was about what I expected with the new vehicle. Did use about a 1/4 tank of gas though, but I did have a breeze right on the nose all the way and I do have the "paddle shifter" which I set in 5th gear on the open road. There was no apparent rake to the vehicle either with trailer attached. [Trailer package option installed]

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 15:24:33

This line started with an amusing, tongue in cheek tale. In real life I defer to "The Trailer Guys" in Boat/US "Ask the Experts" columns: "If you are below your vehicle's rated towing capacity, you're fine." The only caveat is "your vehicle". You can do the numbers from the plate yourself, but it will be the same as the specific rating that is provided with your vehicle by the manufacturer. Calculating it could conceivable be higher if the manufacturer arbitrarily reduced the capacity for transmission, engine, wheelbase, or any other reason, but the manufacturer"s specific number would still be the limit. My old '97 Wrangler is only rated for 2500 pounds (still more than I would tow with it), my son's '97 Cherokee with the same drivetrain, axles and brakes is rated for 3500 pounds. '08 Grande Cherokees could be rated from 4500 pounds to 7200 pounds. Its really pretty simple - match the real numbers "as equipped" and drive the one you like and are comfortable with.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2011 : 16:55:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041This line started with an amusing, tongue in cheek tale....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup! Tongue firmly in cheek.

I'd never tow my boat (more than 5' - 10') with less than a F150 Super Duty. Preferably a F250. Just asking for trouble, IMHO.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2011 : 11:36:17

By the way, I rented a little 5X8 enclosed U-haul over the weekend. What a PIA the little sucker was to back up.

So short from my rear wheels to the trailer's wheels that it took me three tries to get in my driveway without hitting any of the other cars. Just glad nobody was watching!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2011 : 08:52:26

After we hauled out our C-25 last October with a F150 for a bottom job, I moved it across the marina to the gravel parking lot with our Isuzu Trooper (class II hitch, 3,500 lbs. max.) without any problems. Trailer was VERY tongue light, however, so I felt okay doing it.
BUT, I would never have considered taking it on the road.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/17/2011 08:53:17

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2011 : 09:15:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 ...took me three tries to get in my driveway without hitting any of the other cars. Just glad nobody was watching!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Check Youtube.

Edited by - on

jonfew346
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 08:41:06

So what is the best tow vehicle for the C25. Any truck 2500 or better or would an F150 that has 5500 towing capacity work well?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2011 : 10:00:54

Uh-Oh, now you've gone and done it. Asked THE question.

The debate is endless. Some will say a Volkswagon Vanagon is enough and others will require a Peterbilt. (OK, a little exageration at both ends.)

The only thing you need to do is understand how much your boat and truck weigh. The common thought is around 6500 pounds for boat and trailer. Lighter for the water ballast 250. Then, open the driver's side door and check the GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating)on the little sticker that's there. You add up the weight of the boat and its contents, trailer, tow vehicle and its contents. If that total is smaller than the GCWR number, then that vehicle is considered capable for the work. If not, it's not. It really is that simple. Surpassing that number, you do at your own risk and other people's peril!

I'm pretty sure you won't find a big enough number on anything smaller than an F150 SuperDuty and, maybe not even there.

Remember, it's not about going as much as it's about stopping.

[url="http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/vehicle/gcwr.htm"]GCWR explained[/url]

Edited by - John Russell on 05/20/2011 10:03:49

DonaldM
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 09:05:25

We bought our C250WK last year, then bought the tow vehicle (my car needed replacing anyway). I think the proper tow vehicle depends on the GCWR AND the rated towing capacity for that actual vehicle (which depends on how it is equipped). This is the manufacturer’s determination of what that vehicle can safely tow, and which won’t cause undue strain on the vehicle. Although the potential towing capacity will vary based on the model (such as F150, F250, F350), it’s the actual rated capacity that counts. I don’t remember the specifics, but an F150 can certainly be equipped to be rated to tow over 6,500 lbs. Towing packages often include features like a transmission oil cooler, heavy duty shocks, a lower-geared rear end, bigger brakes, etc.

On the other hand, I’ve read recently that manufacturers sometimes increase tow rating in different years and models for competitive reasons instead of engineering reasons. However, there is a new vehicle standard (SAE J2807) that came out in the last year or two which should help standardize how tow ratings are set.

Another aspect to keep in mind about the manufacturer’s tow rating of your actual vehicle is legal liability. If there is any kind of serious accident, you can be sure that the insurance companies and plaintiff’s attorneys (those suing you) will examine your vehicle’s actual rating to deny coverage or to demonstrate your liability.

We will be towing and launching a lot because we keep the boat at home, launch it whenever we want to sail. We ended up choosing a 4X4 Toyota Tundra pickup (full size) with a 4.6L engine (the smaller V8 choice) with a tow package. It is rated to tow 8,300 lbs, which gives us a very comfortable safety margin for the 6,500 lbs or so of our C250WK (haven’t weighed it yet). It tows the boat wonderfully. We chose the 4X4 for the compound low gearing for use when retrieving the boat up a steep slimy ramp (and for driving in the snow for skiing, etc.). And helping stack the safety odds in our favor, the trailer has brakes on both axles, and the brakes are discs (not drum).

For those that haven’t owned a pickup before (like me), they are very nice to drive. Smooth ride, quiet cab, lots of room. Two drawbacks: On some concrete freeways (in the Los Angeles area), the ride can get very bouncy from the spacing of the construction joints on the road (but when towing, the ride is smooth). And actual gas mileage (when not towing) for us is only about 15 city and 18 highway.

Hope this helps.

Don

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 09:54:04

A few years ago one of our members showed some photos of his C25 lying on the freeway next to his Chevy Blazer, connected to the trailer but also lying on it's side . Apparently the Blazer could not handle the weight from behind during a sudden stop or slow-down situation. Something to think about.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 09:57:36

Don, Since I had my Tacoma for 11 years my first choice was a
Tundra, but being 68 with arthritis couldn't get into the cab
nor could I get into any Ford or Chevy. Dodge Ram was doable.
Jeep Grand Cherokee was the best but lousy trade-in value by dealer.
Chose the GMC Acadia, easy in/out, all wheel drive, trailer package, $2500 rebate, $3000 more on my trade-in and another $2000 off the sticker price. Gas mileage is lousy in city driving but OK on open road. Towed my 250/WB with no problem.

Edited by - on

DonaldM
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2011 : 10:55:12

Bear,
You're right about the height getting into the truck. I'm 6' 4", so not a problem for me, but for my wife and others, I got the running boards. Makes a huge difference. Sounds like your Acadia was a nice solution for you.
Don

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2011 : 08:10:11

Jonathan, if you are at PYC in Hixon, I wouldn't pull a C25 up that ramp with anything less than a F250 Super Duty, GMC 2500, or Ram 2500, preferably with a Cummins diesel engine and 4 wheel drive.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2011 : 13:51:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jonfew346
 So what is the best tow vehicle for the C25.... would an F150 that has 5500 towing capacity work well?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Add up the weights for boat, trailer, outboard, sails, anchors, chain, stuff, other stuff, still more stuff... I don't think 5,500 covers it. And I'm not big on pushing, much less "stretching," capacity ratings for safety issues.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2011 : 05:09:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jonfew346
 So what is the best tow vehicle for the C25. Any truck 2500 or better or would an F150 that has 5500 towing capacity work well?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As has been noted on here before...tow capacity is the GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle when ready to tow (add tongue weight, etc).

Edited by - on

Loren H.
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 17:10:41

I too always used a 3/4 ton truck or better to haul, retrieve, tow my C25 and now C250.

A few years ago my wife persuaded me to get something a little classier and now this is my new tow vehicle. Works great!

2008 Mercedes GL 450. 350hp and 7500 pound towing capacity. I get a few strange looks but so far so good!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 17:19:08

Classier than an F250, what're you smokin'? Ain't no such thing!

Edited by - John Russell on 06/03/2011 17:19:42

Sam Plummer
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2011 : 13:15:36

Could anyone estimate the weight of the 2001WB with the standard mast raising trailer, 9.9 engine (about 100 lbs)?

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2011 : 22:35:54

John Russell

I just came from my boat at Cap Sante Marina Anacortes,Wa and saw this renagade from California in the parking lot.
Anyone know this boat and person?

Well shut the front door.....................
I wrote him up a warning ticket and signed it Stinkpotter.

paulj

https://picasaweb.google.com/1dbpaul/250Tow#

Edited by - on

dubedoo
1st Mate

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68 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 07:10:52

Sam, my 2003 wb (very little gear loaded on it at the time), with motor (Honda 8 hp @ 100# +) and trailer weighed 5100#. As I recall(this was in 2004) someone else with a wb posted that they had weighed theirs and came up with 5120#.

Steve
2003 C250 wb #702

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