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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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C25 towing requirements

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tomh
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/16/2012 : 07:39:59

I've only towed my C25 once (to Winter storage this year). We used a friends truck with plenty of power. I want to buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee but I'm being told that I need an 8 cyl. Can anyone tell me how much weight I need to plan for (I'm guessing that the total weight is about 6,000 lbs) and whether I really need an 8 cyl.?

Tom

Tom

1978 C25 "Karma" #790
Toledo Beach Marina
LaSalle, Michigan

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 07:50:11

Uh-OH.........

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 07:58:50

Here is a recent discussion:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22968& SearchTerms=dodge,ram

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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769 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 08:03:41

Hi Tom,
Figure on at least a 6,000 lb tow with boat and trailer (yes, I know that the specs wouldn't indicate that - but the boats are heavier than spec - plus all the gear aboard adds pounds too). Also figure how many hills you have to climb.
It might be cheaper to buy the car you want and rent/borrow a truck for a twice a year trip.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 10:15:47

My C250 WK on its trailer weighs 7,000lbs and I believe a C25 is a bit heavier. We used to tow with a V8 GMC Yukon with towing package and it was not adequate. 3/4 ton pickup is what you want. Remember the issue is not pulling power - it is stopping power and emergency control.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 10:25:30

Randy is right....just because you "can" tow it doesn't mean you should.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 10:42:40

I bought this for towing: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SharkRacer/F250%20King%20Ranch/Offroad%2011-13-10/CIMG1068.jpg

Had plenty of fun with it until the Mexicans stole it for drug running pleasure. I know you guys aren't as close to Mexico as I am, but I'd still highly recommend a standalone GPS for any large vehicle regardless of your insurance and anti-theft. Large expensive vehicles have been stolen a lot recently.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 01/16/2012 10:43:35

John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 11:02:12

Yep, it's January.

Some will say they safely towed their house with a Volkswagen. The truth is as Randy said. It's not in the going but in the stopping. Your boat will weigh at least 3 Tons! That's probably twice the weight of the Grand Cherokee. I know I wouldn't want that much weight behind me in a vehicle that barely meets the specs.

I wouldn't consider towing my boat with less than an F250 long wheelbase equipped for towing.

Edited by - on

OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 11:19:00

We have friends that used to tow their C25 with a smaller displacment V8 (1/2t pu) and often wished they had something larger. Terrain certainly should factor into your decision. As John references above, stopping ability is equally (if not more) important. My first C25 had single axle brakes, state law mandated brakes on the 2nd axle - big difference. Current trailer has quad discs - really big difference.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 12:29:14

We're considering a new vehicle, and the ability to tow the boat is a "nice to have" that is swaying our decision a bit (I don't even have a trailer yet). We're leaning heavily toward the V8 Durango, which is rated to 7400 lbs, and I wouldn't dream of trying to tow the boat without breaks on at least one axle, and probably both (or certainly both, if that's what my state requires).

Can someone help me (and hopefully Tom) understand how/why the V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee (also rated to 7400 lbs) or the Durango aren't good choices, assuming a trailer with "proper" brakes? And no, I'm not trying to stir things up! Just trying to get some basic facts.

Edited by - JimGo on 01/16/2012 12:40:57

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 13:14:13

Oh goodie, and I just bought popcorn too... Lemme grab a coke before you guys hit play.

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pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 13:39:12

Electric brakes change the formula.
If you want to travel with it then you need to be prepared for what may come; a 250 level vehicle with as long a wheelbase as possible as a base.
If you just move it annually then your route determines what you need. My Mountaineer handled both of my C25s very well but I felt better about the '89 with electric brakes. My route is FLAT and well maintained pavement all the way from my house the crane that I use to launch the boat. I would never try to handle any grades with my Mountaineer. My Econoline 150 5.4 has the wheelbase and power but not the suspension or brakes to handle it for a long road trip... and it would be a milage nightmare.

My Spirit 23 rig from the early 80s.

I towed my Merit 25 with my Cutlass wagon up to 200 miles for regattas.

Edited by - pastmember on 01/16/2012 13:41:04

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 13:40:10

Hi Tom... Over what distances, roads, speeds, and terrains will your tows be done, and how often? One mile at 30 mph on a flat road is one thing--20 miles on an interstate or 50+ mph road is another. Directional stability is a key issue, particularly when braking and turning at higher speeds, and most particularly when something unexpected happens. I've seen a very scary example, where a Cherokee and boat just ahead of me ended up in a field. And I vaguely recall a C-250 owner once reporting here about his boat ending up on its side after jackknifing--don't remember the tow vehicle.

Wheelbase length is a significant factor for stability, and for example, I think the Chevy Suburban has over a foot more than a Grand Cherokee or Durango, as well as over 9,000 lbs. towing capacity and greater payload. Of course, this comes at a fuel consumption price for everyday driving. The F-250 can be way longer (like 4-5' longer?) with a towing capacity about double your requirement.

I'd seriously consider Bill Holcomb's advice unless towing the boat is a frequent event. Friends of mine paid somebody around $100 each way, I think, to tow their C-30 to and from their home each year. Their vehicle, in turn, was typically something like a Taurus.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/16/2012 13:45:16

John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 13:59:39

Maybe Frank will let you borrow his Nash.

I had my boat moved from southern Ohio to Lake Erie by a guy from a RV store that was on his way to Elkhart to pick up a 5th wheel camper. Paid him around $200. You might check a few of the RV dealers in the area and see if they might be interested in hauling to Marblehead. You actually may only have to do it once if you choose to winter store the boat there.

Frank brought up an interesting point regarding launch. Will you ramp launch or lift it in?

Edited by - John Russell on 01/16/2012 14:00:58

Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 14:05:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I'd seriously consider Bill Holcomb's advice unless towing the boat is a frequent event. Friends of mine paid somebody around $100 each way, I think, to tow their C-30 to and from their home each year. Their vehicle, in turn, was typically something like a Taurus.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Glad to be called a friend... we hire a regular old towtruck to pull the trailer. $80 to $100 each way - less than a tank of gas for our car at current prices. He pays the insurance and assumes the liabilty if things go wrong. Edit to add - we pull the empty trailer home behind the minivan for summer storage.

Edited by - Prospector on 01/16/2012 14:06:12

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 19:35:29

It really is easy. I'm a something over 6k with a 7k towing capacity and it works fine (I limit my speed to 62mph normally). Just buy a vehicle with at least 7k towing capacity as equipped and let the opinions fly. Opinions are just that and free, including mine, but the numbers are real, at least the ones that apply to your vehicle as equipped. The TV commercial may say 14,200 lb. towing capacity; the rapidly scrolling fine print says properly equipped. There is no best towing vehicle; there is one that best fits your needs. Incidentally, I tow with a 2008 Grand Cherokee V-8. The new G. Cherokee with vastly more torque from the new V-6 is still only rated for 4500 lb. because the rest of the drive train isn't up to it.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 19:46:04

Sorry, I just checked and the 6 is rated for 5k. The 5.7L V-8 is 7400, but be sure that you get the right package. The 6.4L "Hemi" SRT-8 went down to 6K, probably because it is more aimed at the luxury market with attendent suspension changes and weighty options.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 21:14:57

Please read the little red notice at the bottom of the screen before accepting any advice on this matter. My boat weighs 6,000lbs on the crane at liftout. Add trailer and whatever is in your vehicle to that for a GVWR.

Back to my popcorn now.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2012 : 21:40:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Add trailer and whatever is in your vehicle to that for a GVWR.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I believe the GVW includes the tongue weight of the trailer, but not the entire trailer and boat weight (which relates to the towing capacity). So the GVWR (rating) is one thing, and the towing capacity (trailer, boat, and its contents) is another. Both count.

Pass the popcorn?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/16/2012 21:54:32

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 06:08:12

For what it is worth; I towed a travel trailer all over the eastern US and Canada with a vehicle that had a tow rating of 7300 pounds. The trailer weighed 6960 pounds loaded for travel. It did OK but really worked hard on hills and in head winds. For a Catalina 25 I would not consider a vehicle that did not have a tow rating of at least 9000 pounds. Watch the total gross weight on the door placard and be sure all wheels have brakes. Also watch the tongue weight. My boat trailer had 3500 pound axels and both were bowed from overweight loads. It now has 5200 pound axels.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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2015 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 07:15:25

hewebb (Howard) makes a great point and something I'm thinking as I read through this thread; There has never been a time in my life where a little overkill to a situation has not paid off. To do something comfortably takes a lot of pain and strain out of a situation, and might save your life.

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John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 07:24:15

In case you didn't want to scroll to the bottom:

<center>Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ. The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.</center>

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JimGo
Admiral

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962 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 07:36:18

OK, so what I'm reading is that basically the Jeep Grand Cherokee/Durango CAN do it, but it isn't necessarily the best tool for the task, or one you'd want to use with a good deal of regularity (e.g., towing the boat to different locations ever weekend). Kind of like a jigsaw and a table saw - you can make due with the jigsaw, but for repeated use and better results, you're better off with the table saw. Or, put another way, from what I'm reading the drivetrain and frame are set up to tow 7000 lbs, but the engine could really use more "oomf" (yeah, technical term) if you're going to be hauling over mountains, etc., and the brakes could be beefed up more to help with stopping what is essentially a vehicle that suddenly weighs at least twice as much and is over twice as long. Fair characterization?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 07:57:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 ...Kind of like a jigsaw and a table saw - you can make due with the jigsaw, but for repeated use and better results, you're better off with the table saw... Fair characterization?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Actually, I don't think so. What we're pointing out here (and have many times) is that this is a matter of the safety of yourself, perhaps your family, and possibly some other people who happen to be on the road. I side with Dave R. and Howard W.--I do not like to operate at or near the manufacturers' rated maximums for things that, if overtaxed, can hurt or kill people. YMMV.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/17/2012 07:59:30

John Russell
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Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 08:34:03

Early in my military career (I was a medic), I worked in a major trauma center in San Antonio. Some may recall Wilford Hall, the only hospital on the west side of town so we got military and civilian major trauma cases. If I had a nickel for every time I heard somebody with a serious injury say something like: "I was just going around the corner." Or, "I just did it once." I could make more than a couple of mortgage payments.

This is a safety issue. All this discussion about level roads vs. hill, frequent vs infrequent towing etc., is just obfuscation. Over-stressing safety standards "just once" is all it takes to get somebody killed. I remember every dead child I've ever taken to the morgue and it's been 30-35 years since.

Just ask a certain cruise ship Captain in Italy. If what has been reported about his actions is true, he probably thought to himself as he steered closer to shore: "aaahhh, nuthin's gonna happen just once. Besides, everybody does it."

Edited by - John Russell on 01/17/2012 08:37:21

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/17/2012 : 08:42:58

In addition to the other comments, you would be putting a huge amount of stress on the engine and transmission trying to pull a C-25 out of the water with a 6-cyl. vehicle. I would be worried about damaging the transmission and would not do it, period.

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