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Marina BS... $25 contractor fee...

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2013 : 08:52:24

My marina offers maintenance and repair services, but allows outside contractors to work on the premises, but charges them a fee for any work done on the marina property.

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redeye
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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2013 : 09:17:53

My marina ( Aqualand ) has a self service boat yard, the last one on the lake. You can work on it yourself or hire anyone to come in.. no problem. They also have a list of preferred contractors.

I consider myself lucky.

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redviking
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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2013 : 12:43:35

Another viewpoint from another forum... I have to agree...

"Fascinating. In many ways, a marina is nothing but a parking lot that you pay to use for your boat.
I suppose I should say its no different than all the bank fees to maintain a savings ofr checking account. Or the "Government Regulatory Fee" that the phone or cable company tacks on your bill. Nothing but hot air. But its a semi-palusabile excuse to tack another "fee" on your bill. Or all the government fees (so we can claim they aren't taxes)

So If I follow the logic, when You pay the marina $ X thousand dollars to dock there for a season, you are also giving them a monopoly to control work on your boat. Wow, where did the lawyers bury that exclusivity clause in the fine print to the contract? Do they also charge you for the "priviledge" of working on your own boat, cleaning, waxing, sanding, painting, working on the engine or electronics, etc? Nope, that come's next.

They claim the almost exclusive power to do everything for/to your boat, and charge you whatever they dang well please (I think that means fu** you in the A**, and you will llike it!) as long as the boat is within their empire. No free market competition allowed (or if you do go outside, they claim a markup/cut for doing nothing but sitting in the office looking at your boat in the slip). I thought robber barrons went out of style in the 1890s.

I'm sorry, but my dad was right when he observed years ago that there was a very good reason that marina operators were ranked siginificant'y lower than used car salemen on the ethical food chain.

And someone has to say it, but what role does this kind of "predatory billing behavior" have on the attrition of boat owners from sailing? Many boat owners are successful business and professional people. They don't like getting USED. To what extent does that push them towareds the break even point where they decide this just isn't enough fun for the money they're spending?

No, not all marinas operate at that level. I've met, sailed and worked with some great people with nothing but the highest standards of business. A fair bill for fair work done. No games, gimmicks or set-ups. I love those people.
But there are more than enough bad apples to give the entire industry a bad reputation.

Sorf of like lawyers. It doesn't take very many to give them all a bad reputation,. And they have an overwhelming abundance of bad apples."

sten

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2013 : 18:13:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kc5dlo
 The part that got me was the line that said I could not work on my boat on weekends or holidays. I did not press the issue by asking questions but I do wonder what they constitute as "work".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This probably refers to work that would disturb your slip neighbors. If someone pays good money to have a boat in a marina, they don't want to spend a quiet, relaxing weekend on it while the guy in the next slip is spending the weekend sanding/grinding his entire deck.

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GaryB
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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 19:45:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kc5dlo
 The part that got me was the line that said I could not work on my boat on weekends or holidays. I did not press the issue by asking questions but I do wonder what they constitute as "work".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This probably refers to work that would disturb your slip neighbors. If someone pays good money to have a boat in a marina, they don't want to spend a quiet, relaxing weekend on it while the guy in the next slip is spending the weekend sanding/grinding his entire deck.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Or hearing a guy physically and verbally abusing his wife which happened about 3 slips down from me a couple of months ago. Didn't take long for the cops to arrive and the next weekend the boat and the people were gone. From what I understand the cops were called more than once on this couple.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 20:26:11

Sten, have you seen the insurance bill for a marina? I have--I'm prez of a condo complex that has a dock with slips for all of the units, and it's one of our biggest bills. (Obviously Sandy didn't help.) Have you seen the costs for maintaining docks, electrical systems, water systems, lighting,... where salt water (and ice here) work against all of that? I have. Do you know what marina operators deal with from derelict boats in the yard and unpaid fees for everything else. I've had an ear-full (but fortunately don't deal with that here).

Your marina is trying to appeal to its perceived market of people who want full-service, and they're making a payroll and paying those other bills to provide it (although allowing other contractors, who use those systems, to benefit from their market at a nominal fee). You're apparently not part of that market. That leaves it up to you.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/29/2013 20:35:33

redviking
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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 22:01:16

Well Dave, I can't say I have, but let's just say that I pay what is asked of me and that since the changes, about 25% departed. I think it is just another chink in a hole that will grow. I too am an entrepreneur and have made payroll for nearly 18 years now, so I do understand their pain. That been said, I hate to break my lease and leave them holding the bag for an empty slip while I refill the cruising kitty and seek a new first mate. Which may be impossible.

I/we left Boston nearly 6 years ago on an adventure of a lifetime, so I know of quite a few marinas in the same boat so to speak. I've been a slave to work, maintenance, and a lot of ungodly passages only to pull in and get $3.00 a foot for a night transient which is higher than a Marriott would charge.

It is simply a parking spot. Seriously.... If you can't deal with your insurance companies, then consider this, some, not all require proof of my insurance. Yes, I pay nearly $200 a month and that gives me millions of dollars worth of protection for the Marina I am at. Really? Will my 39' vessel cause so much damage that I need 3 million in coverage?

At least that is what I have and the operators were happy to see proof. My problem is big picture. Ok, so now they squeeze this out of me. Making my diver pay, what is next? After awhile, only Tiger Woods and a few others will be able to do this. Now, most of you will never go thru the C&D, transit the Icw, tie up to the $22 a night balls in the heart of nyc, or make your way to Miami, Key West, the island chain, or say Fort myers beach, to name a short list of few. But, wouldn't you all love to at a bare minimum think that was possible for an average C25 owner who decided he wasn't getting younger and now is better than never?

With the increasing costs, you can't dream anymore. You won't be able to do this. And I hope if you can't go, your kids might someday aspire to complete Dads voyage of dreams.

Yep, I said it. We have to preserve this lifestyle for the next generation of neerthewells like myself. Folks willing to sell all their ***, rent out the house, and let the chips fall where they may. Yes, you might wind up divorced and poorer, but in the end it's a dream for some and now big corporations are squeezing the life out of that dream.

Yes Dave, your insurance sucks, but consider this. If everyone had a $75k boat and no sue happy lawyers, then what is the problem? That's what it used to be. Now these floating BendyToys are worth nearly half a million and if something happens at the dock they have a few lawyers who will sue the Marina for negligence. BS I say.

Finally, think of it this way. Let's just say that your Jag breaks down. Lucas the prince of darkness has a moment with the alternator and you pull into a parking spot. Battery dead so add that on too. You call a mobile mechanic who brings you a new battery and alternator, while you continue to plug the meter. Should the city be able to charge the mobile mechanic $25 to install a battery and an alternator on you '76 Jag? I think not.

Sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 07:53:50

Ahhh, Lucas... He was that way! (...until Ford locked him away.) But in your scenario, the city already had their pound of flesh in property taxes or whatever from the mechanic.

Our boats have to be insured, but there are other risks: people falling off the dock; ice, wind, and storm surges; maybe our electrical wiring starting a fire or electrocuting somebody... My commercial marina (for storage) has docks, an office, a parking/storage area, electrical and water distribution systems that contractors use, property taxes, insurance bills, utility bills, repair and maintenance bills,... all so your boat can be at a dock your contractor can walk out on.

The scarier development I see is marinas selling out to developers, often for office complexes with expensive water views. The corporation that bought your marina probably sees it as a waterfront property investment--if it doesn't turn a reasonable profit as a marina, POOF! Now it's an insurance company headquarters!

Life's a b!tch.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 09:57:59

Howard and JoeDiver,

You may or may not have heard about this:

Suntex Ventures Acquires Three Marinas on Eagle Mountain Lake near Fort Worth, TX
DALLAS, TEXAS (November 1, 2012)

Suntex Ventures with its subsidiary Suntex Marinas, the Dallas-based owner and operator of marina properties, are pleased to announce the acquisition of a portfolio of three marinas near Fort Worth, Texas, on Eagle Mountain Lake. The portfolio consists of Eagle Mountain Marina, Lake Country Marina, and Harbor One Marina. Combined, the marinas feature 910 in-water slips, 242 indoor boat storage spaces, ample outdoor boat and trailer storage, fuel docks, ship stores, boat rentals, boat service centers, and restaurants. The marinas are located north of downtown Fort Worth, and on the East and Southeast shores of Eagle Mountain Lake

“Suntex is extremely excited about this opportunity to add three prime marinas to our Dallas/Fort Worth portfolio,” Bryan Redmond, Suntex Principal, said. “We plan to immediately improve these properties through several capital improvement projects and are committed to enhancing the customer experience for the current boaters and future customers alike on Eagle Mountain Lake.”

This transaction marks the fourth acquisition by Suntex in 2012, including Saylorville Lake Marina near Des Moines, IA, Crosswater Yacht Club on Lake Travis in Austin, TX, and Bay Pointe Marina near Boston, MA. Suntex now owns and operates a portfolio of fifteen marinas and one marina loan with a total value of approximately $170M. The Suntex vision is to be the pre-eminent resort marina company in the world and is actively seeking premier marinas around the world for acquisition.

The Suntex team is enthusiastic regarding the opportunity to work with its tenants and guests to enhance the community and stakeholders. Financing for the transaction was provided by Capital One.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 11:02:45

And so it begins. :(

Sten

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 15:19:22

Sten, 4yrs ago my cosy laid back Marina was sold to these people http://www.viningsmarine.com/ The sale was due to many things happening to the Maria owner in a short period of time. 2 bulkheads collapsing in on 6 boats that were docked in front. A Large fire where 12 boats were destroyed and low and behold most of these boat owners/insurance Co. all went after this nice man who owned this laid back Marina. Bottom line is he felt betrayed by the boat owners he called family and sold it to this Investment group. This investment group bought the Marina just before this recession hit and over the next 2yrs lost their shirts. They in turn sold the Marina to Brewers Yacht Yards who were next door and now with the two yards own everything in Glen Cove. Brewers is a large outfit around LI Sound owning many Marinas. Bottom line is that things can change very fast. In 4yrs I went from a nice laid back Marina that didn't care if you worked on your boat and everybody knew your name to just a slip number. PS The prices went up substantially also along with new rules.

Edited by - islander on 01/30/2013 15:22:45

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 21:55:23

Which is why Scott and others, I think that eventually most of what made sailing fun and a fairly reasonable proposition will go bye bye for all except the very wealthy. By the time you pay for your vessel of choice, outfit it properly, pay insurance, fuel, and dockage, let alone hauling and repairs, the amount spent annually will amount to several hundred dollars per outing. If boat building is ever going to come back, they need to find a way to manage end use costs. I currently pay well over $5500 just for the slip. How much is too much? If I didn't cruise when able and live on my vessel, there is no way I could afford that, plus all the other costs.

Sten

Edited by - redviking on 01/30/2013 21:56:04

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