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Garmin GPS76CSx gave up the ghost

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 07/19/2013 : 20:42:12

I've had my trusty handheld color Garmin GPS-76CSx for a long while. I thought it would last forever. During the season I keep it on the boat, in the winter I take it home.
Past few trips, it would fire up just fine and track for several hours, then it would lose satellite reception. If I switched it off for an hour and switched it back on, it would re-lock.
Over time it got a bit worse and worse.
Now it will not find ANY satellites, and worse, it thinks it is 21-AUG-99 at 20:04, and nothing I do will reset the time, or force it to acquire satellites.
I took it home and connected it via the USB connector and tried getting it in to diagnostic mode. I finally found an online reference that gives you the keystrokes (hold "ENTER" and power on) sequence to put it into diagnostic mode.
It reported back that everything worked fine except that the satellite signal level was "---".
It has a satellite input connector. I may take it over to W*M to see whether I can try one of the separate antennas to get it to work. It's an awesome (but old) unit.
I even tried to remove the screws and open it to see whether the internal antenna is hosed up somehow... Could not get it open. Sealed very tightly and impossible to open.
Lastly, I went on the Garmin website and asked a question of customer support. I left my email and hope to hear from them soon.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 07/19/2013 : 21:29:35

My 276 has exhibited similar symptoms for some time. What happens is that it starts looking for satellites in the previous epoch (Dec 99 I think?). Epoch's are roughly 20 years (a bit less). If I let it find satellites, it'll generally come up with a date around 2003. However, if I simply turn it off and right back on, it'll "remember" the last time I turned it off, generally in the last couple of days, then start it's search from there and eventually get the right date/time. Try shutting it off and immediately turn it back on and see if it'll find satellites.

OR...

Here's some unorthodox advice. Do a "2 inch calibration drop" with the GPS. Basically, hold it about 2" above a hard surface like a concrete floor and drop it so it lands flat. The idea is to shake up the connections just a bit. I used this method all the time in the USN (I was an electrician) to resurrect recalcitrant equipment, and it was amazingly effective. If it doesn't help, move up to a 6" drop.

YMMV, and not responsible for any damage...

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2013 : 05:55:50

Yeah, and if dropping it doesn't help the electronics... it'll make YOU feel better.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5236 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2013 : 06:03:03

I like the "calibrated drop" procedure, article 19.3.a.6-9 from Naval Electronics Repair Manual. Satisfaction is important!

This morning I received a confirmation of my question from Garmin. They advised to allow 3-4 business days for feedback.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2013 : 11:35:52

Garmin is usually pretty quick and helpful. Are there any software updates you haven't applied? An update solved a similar problem on my 276C.

About 40 years ago, I advised a customer on the phone to lift one side of a misbehaving IBM 2741 terminal (the size of a desk and a couple of hundred pounds) about 3" and drop it. Problem solved. (I don't think that was in the manual).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/20/2013 11:40:10

Voyager
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5236 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2013 : 16:43:52

I plugged the unit into my PC and performed a software update. The update was unable to complete

Edited by - on

pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2013 : 17:10:00

THAT is BAD. I believe "software" to a Garmin is "Firmware" and if a firmware update fails then usually an item is hosed. Does it still boot up after the failure?
I just bought a RAM Mount for my Garmin 76CS and have started using it on my 29er bike. It is a great unit series.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2013 : 19:06:27

The worst we have had with our Garmin 76CX is corrosion off the battery terminals.

I cleaned them with some vinegar and an ear bud. Hoping that it lasts much longer.

Paul

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 07/20/2013 : 21:05:26

Frank,
The unit will boot up, but it does not acquire any satellites.

It could possibly be bad firmware, however the unit went bad while I was sailing - it went bad on its own, not during a SW update which is the most critical time.

While it boots up, the unit believes that it is 1999. Once the unit acquires a satellite signal, the time is reset to ZULU time with current date with a +5 -1 offset (for Eastern Daylight Time).

I'd like to connect the device to a separate GPS antenna to rule out that the internal antenna or connections went bad. I have one, but it has the wrong connector on it.

The unit is still in perfect shape (battery terminals, screen, buttons, water-resistant seal, etc), its just that it will no longer acquire satellite signals. I tried to open it up (unscrew the screws), but it appears to be ultrasonically welded plastic, and I don't want to mangle it up.

When I tried to perform the SW update last night, the basic dialog box told me that my software is fully up to date. It did however offer to update my Map module (which I did not purchase, I am using the base map). So I was not surprised to find it would not update the map software.

I'm hoping the technician from Garmin offers some actionable advice (reset or test routine). I'll ask him about how to check the SW checksum to see whether that is hosed or not.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 07/21/2013 : 08:02:24

The external antenna idea is sure worth a try! Good luck.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5236 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2013 : 16:45:28

Went back and forth with Garmin customer support over the past 3 days. They told me to try resetting the unit (lost all my waypoints) then to retry downloading SW and set a new location for the device. In between I've had to keep the unit outside searching for satellites for up to 30 minutes.

I got the unit into the factory test QC mode and everything looks perfect. Buttons all work, screen is perfect (kept the screen protector) the SW checksum is correct. Everything checks out like a brand new unit.
Except one thing: won't sync to the sats. Dead in the water.

This means it won't give me lat/long, speed, waypoints, and it doesn't know the date or time so it can't give me almanac or tidal data. Nada

They suggested I send the unit in for an exchange. I'd get a refurb in exchange for my unit (mine's undoubtedly in better shape than some GeoCacher's old one) and it will only cost me $110 plus shipping to KS.

That's unacceptable. I'd prefer they fix mine and ship it back.
And since it's ultrasonically welded shut I can't open the unit to check connections. A plug probably just fell out.

What would you do? I have a dremel tool but I am hesitant to mess up this device. But as is - it's just a brick.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2013 : 19:16:36

I've never had a problem with refurbished electronics, so I would send it back. There are only a few fixable things in electronic devices now. Cutting it open will result in it not even being a good brick, void any possible help from the factory, and cost you the $110 option.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2013 : 19:40:56

The GPSMAP 78 is $230 (new) from GPSDiscount.com... (Base map only, but takes microSD cards.) Is it worth the extra $120?

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/26/2013 : 06:03:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 The GPSMAP 78 is $230 (new) from GPSDiscount.com... (Base map only, but takes microSD cards.) Is it worth the extra $120?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Doesn't include charts, though. The SC version is $419.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 07/26/2013 : 06:24:20

I bought a GPS Map 78 on sale at WM for $199. and bought the chart chip for $99. about a month ago. ($100. total savings) If you can wait, those prices will probably be repeated.

I believe the SC version includes a chart chip for that price. If you can find a good sale, it might be a good deal.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 07/26/2013 06:28:14

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2013 : 06:28:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 The GPSMAP 78 is $230 (new) from GPSDiscount.com... (Base map only, but takes microSD cards.) Is it worth the extra $120?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Doesn't include charts, though. The SC version is $419.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I pointed that particular one out because Bruce seems happy with his 76 base map--no charts. As Steve points out, the option is always there.

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 07/27/2013 : 19:38:31

So I found that I missed one screw. After I removed it, I was able to gently coax it open. Inside were some very exacting (MIL spec) electronics. I noticed nothing at all wrong - no corrosion, no bad connectors, beautiful workmanship.
Once I wiped it out with a paper towel, I closed it up and it ran all night. Connected with dozens of satellites.
I was out today on the boat and had the unit in it's protective case. I noticed a little condensation on the inside of the window for the screen. Aha! I thought - there must be some moisture in the works.
It ran for a while then I noticed the satellite signal begin to attenuate - degrade right before my eyes. The unit reported a "weak satellite signal" and then poof! No more sats.
Tonight I will open the unit up and put it into a bowl of raw rice. I've got one of those silica gel desiccant packs. I will slip it inside. I'm also going to stop using the protective cover from now on.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 07/27/2013 : 22:21:21

That's great! At least now you know what it was (is), and hopefully the dry out period will bring it back good as new.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 14:53:06

So I found myself in West Marine with a $50 rebate card burning through my wallet. Lo and behold, what did I find? A Garmin 76Cx on clearance sale for $169. Well, I just had to get it. I went in there looking for the 78 but the nearly $300 difference in price was too tempting. When I got to the register, it actually was only $129!! (It was the last of the stock on display) I didn't get the chart chip yet since I just got an ad that starts on 8/1 that has the chip for $99.

I've been playing with it for a while and clearly have a lot to learn. Any pointers, Bruce?

Edited by - John Russell on 07/28/2013 14:53:56

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 16:25:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 So I found myself in West Marine with a $50 rebate card burning through my wallet. Lo and behold, what did I find? A Garmin 76Cx on clearance sale for $169. Well, I just had to get it. I went in there looking for the 78 but the nearly $300 difference in price was too tempting. When I got to the register, it actually was only $129!! (It was the last of the stock on display) I didn't get the chart chip yet since I just got an ad that starts on 8/1 that has the chip for $99.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
FWIW, a number of sellers on Amazon have "open box" and "used" chips for around $40. Not sure if they're bootleg, but I would hope Amazon cracks down on that stuff. For obvious reasons (bricking your device) I would never buy bootleg for something like this. But I'd consider a "used" chip that was returned by somebody.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps& field-keywords=HXUS039R
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I've been playing with it for a while and clearly have a lot to learn. Any pointers, Bruce?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I found the touchscreen Oregon to be much more intuitive to use. Some complain about not being able to use it with gloves, but I was able to use it with thin gloves on a hike on New Years Day. Unfortunately my 400c (built in charts) is discontinued, so you have to buy a different model and add a chip. A Garmin rep at the boat show told me that they discontinued the 400c because it was too good a deal with the built-in charts.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 17:01:25

I'm not the most technically savvy guy on the planet so, I'll spend the bucks to buy the original from the mfg complete with warranty and tech support.

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 17:36:38

Agreed - questionable software hurts everyone.

John - it's a really useful device especially if you use it with Homeport or GeoGarage apps. For detailed charts I still trust paper (for obvious reasons). I created a large number of waypoints on my PC and by on-site collection. There are lots of cool features but the main are as follows:
Go to setup and select all your pages and page sequence.
I like the almanac pages for tides, phase or the moon and hunt&fish guides.
Waypoints and ETA are handy.
Setup multi-color satellites.
There's a lot more…
Enjoy

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 18:57:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...For detailed charts I still trust paper (for obvious reasons).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ummmm... like seeing exactly where you are on the detailed chart, and where you're going to be in a few minutes? Have you experienced a Bluechart plotter? It can change your life--like it did for those of us who've succeeded Columbus (not to mention Loran). That's a big part of my move up to the Garmin 640, which is around the low end of a screen size and resolution suitable for navigation charts. They are, incidentally, what you see on paper.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/28/2013 19:03:53

britinusa
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Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 19:06:30

We carry a Garmin 546 Chart plotter and a Garmin 76cx GPS with basic charts.

And we carry a set of charts wherever we sail.

I routinely have the local chart page open in the cockpit and note our position every now and then even in familiar waters like Biscayne Bay where you can see land on at least 2 sides all the time in good weather.

I will plot our position on the map from compass sightings and then ask Peggy for a gps Lat-n-Long read out to confirm.

Old habit, don't want to die hard!

Paul

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 07/29/2013 : 20:26:31

Paul -
I take it therefore you mark your chart at each hour interval as you're sailing - so in case fog rolls in you can use dead reckoning to mark your position? I still take sight bearings and make lines of position. As you say old habits die hard.
I agree that Dave's chart plotter makes a huge difference, but I would still plot on paper charts and keep a spare GPS with extra batteries just in case my main device tells me it's 20:06 on 22-Aug-99 again and sunset was at 19:37.

Edited by - Voyager on 07/29/2013 20:29:10

JohnP
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Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 05:50:35

My old Garmin GPSMap76 died one day last winter, and I'm gonna try to open it up and dry it out. If that works, I may have a spare for the new GPSMap78CS. Thanks for the tips!

I watch the charts all the time to confirm the depths around the numerous mud flats and sand bars in my local Chesapeake Bay rivers and creeks as well as to keep clear of shoals in distant locales that I'm visiting.

Ran aground in 3' of water south of the Kent Narrows drawbridge, while a pal was at the helm heading towards the next can without noticing the muddy shoal to port on the GPSMap78SC.

We were able to back off with the outboard. Most of the bay is quite shallow, and the chart plotter makes the sailing around here really enjoyable.

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