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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Towing Vehicle

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pkirkland
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/29/2003 : 21:36:38

I am trying to decide how large a towing vehicle I need to pull a Catalina 25. Obviously it depends on keel configuration. If I decide to purchase a Ford/Expedition, Chevy/Tahao or equivalent V8 SUV, could I expect this to be able to handle the C25 weight within reasonable limits? I am not so concerned about what the specs of the vehicles say as what DIRECT experience people have with them.
Patrick

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 22:51:02

You should have no problem with either of those choices. If you can pull more than 6000 pounds you are porbably OK. Good idea to have towing pavkage, however, and it is also a good idea to remember that a C 25 can push a little car around.

I pulled my C 25 about 4 miles each way from ramp to storage and back with a 1997 Jimmy with a 6 cylinder for a year. I did it slowly and was always non-plussed as I backed the boat down the ramp. Stopping that Jimmy was interesting. The trailer would just slowly pull it backwards until the boat got buoyant enough to float. Wouldn't even think of trying to pull her out with such a rig. The new Denali does the trick and with ease.

Tom

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 23:06:14

I have an 89 chevy silverado extra cab short bed half ton 4wd automatic to pull my 89 wing. I have the 5.4 liter engine, I think. The truck is rated for 7800 lbs towing capacity. If I were to order one I would get the lower geared rear end. Not that I have had any problem pulling mine up hills. I have a really good trailer with 4 wheel disc brakes. I have to be careful not to go over 70 as it rides so well. I also have the towing package too. I do plan on getting a weight distributing hitch as it does porpise somewhat. I also have Michelin 6 ply truck tires. The truck came with Firestones and I'm glad I got rid of them. The Michelin's really made a difference. I wish chevy wouldn't use crap tires.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 23:41:49

I rented a 1 ton duel wheel truck to pull out my 4000+1000 lbd. 250 WK, it was no problem. It pulled great and it did not pull the truck around. I put it back in with a 3/4 ton Ford and it pushed that truck aroud a bit on the Highway. I think a 3/4 ton vehicle (extended cab) with a towing package and 4 wheel drive would be the best. I agree you should shoot for a 6000 pound towing capacity.,
Steve

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc32b3127cce94d57c8cff3b0000001010" border=0> Moon Chaser #385WK <img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/forum1.gif" border=0>

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 00:10:36

One word of caution. If you ever tow with a chevrolett never tow in Overdrive. Even on a level road. The clutch pack in the auto trans is to small and will soon overheat and burn. This leave your walet with an empty feeling to the tune of $1500 or more. Do you get the feeling Im talking from experiance. Tranny coolers and tow packages help but NOT in OD. Take my word use Drive. (((D)))

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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Dennis Pierce
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 08:47:29

You can tow a C-25 around a flat parking lot with a VW bus. However, stopping it is a whole different story. I tow gooseneck horse trailers with 4 full size horses (6-7 thousand pounds easy) over mountain roads with a '99 F250 super duty crew cab with a V-10 , 4WD, 4 wheel disc brakes and OD. I can put 5 adults in this rig with gear in the bed. Towing a loaded trailere from Durango to Scottsdale and back, I average 11.5 MPG.

Dennis Pierce
Gypsy Witch #1719

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 08:56:08

My vote for the ultimate tow vehicle for a Catalina 25 is the Dodge Ram 2500 or 3500 with the Cummins diesel engine and manual transmission. Towing capacity is 12,000 to 14,000 pounds depending on rear axle ratio, and fuel economy is 15.5 MPG, almost DOUBLE what you would get towing this boat with a gas engine. I know this for a fact, having made two trips from Sacramento to Bellingham, Washington, 900 miles each way, towing "Quiet Time". Other reasons for this choice besides fuel economy: It is best to tow this heavy boat with a manual transmission. I don't think much of automatics for heavy duty towing, they don't seem to last very long, and to the best of my knowledge, you can no longer get any of the big SUV's, either Ford or Chevy, with a manual transmission. Why do you think big rigs have manual, not automatic, transmission? It's not because the drivers enjoy shifting 10 to 16 gears every time they pull away from a traffic light. It's for durability and fuel economy. Why the Dodge/Cummins? If you compare the Cummins with a Ford Powerstroke or Chevy Duramax side by side, it is immediately obvious that the Cummins, being an in-line 6, is much easier to work on than the huge V-8's in the Ford and Chevy. Although these engines don't require tune-ups, you do need to change the oil and fuel filters, and this is a MUCH easier job on the Cummins. Other advantages of the Cummins include: No glow plugs to burn out. The camshaft is driven by gears, not a chain or belt, a much stronger and longer lasting design. No vacuum pump needed as the brake booster runs off of the power steering pump.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 10:22:38

Bottom line is that DIESEL is the way to go. Unless you have very deep pockets, you'll cringe every time you hit the gas pump with a big gasser. Also, these diesel engines are made for work and can handle the stresses of towing a heavy load for extended distances.

I'd drive the Chevy, Ford and Dodge and see which one you like the best. All three are good.

While the Cummins is a strong engine, it's not as 'drivable' as the Chevy or Ford. The powerband of the Cummins is "traditional diesel" and the engine is not very 'snappy'. The other two diesels are as responsive as gas engines and will be more pleasant to drive around when you're not towing. Part of your choice may depend on how much time you spend towing, and how much you spend without the tow.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 12:54:40

The best rig I ever saw for towing a C-25 was owned by an over-the-road trucker, who pulled his boat with his semi tractor, which was painted a beautiful metallic bronze, with pin stripes, and had a sleeper cab. It was awesome!

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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seashot
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 21:33:33

My 2002 Explorer handles my 25 FK on an 18' car trailer with no problem. Trailer brakes are very important. The 4.6L v-8 pulls this rig at 60, in overdrive, at 12mpg. I just moved the boat about 150 miles from south of Detroit to Bay City Michigan and had no problems. With a fin keel on a car trailer the only thing to consider is height. With the mast on top of the bow pulpit the overall height is 12'6". The first bridge I came to was a posted clearance of 13'6". Even though I knew there was a foot to spare, I must say that I held my breath and lifted my foot off the gas as we went under. Good straps, and a little extra time on the corners helped make it a successful trip. The boat in now in her slip, and all is well.

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 21:35:20

>I am not so concerned about what the specs of the vehicles say<

Yes, but the pro-bono lawyer for the family of six on welfare that was riding in the Geo Metro that you (through no fault of your own) creamed wil be VERY interested in those numbers.

I like pulling things with my cars and trucks. I've been doing it for years. I have a 3/4 ton military surplus trailer for mulch, cement, firewood and what have you, a 10.000lbs max 24' foot enclosed cargo trailer for moving household goods, lawn and garden tools, Betsy (the 1951 Roller), and a long list of other things. Then there's Lady Kay.

How far are you going? I've dragged thousands of miles. You do not want to be under powered/under stabilized for a long haul, unless you plan on buying a new truck every two years. If you beat them up, they start aching hard at 60K miles.....

Do not underestimate the weight of the gear on board. Take it all out and put it in a pile.....potable water, tools, anchors, dinghies, cans of beans, it adds up quickly.

So figure the boat, 4500 I believe, trailer, 2000 or so, gear, at least 1000...... that's 7500, and pushing the limit of a half ton GM product. I'm not familiar with the Ford/Chrysler trucks.
The low range rear kicks it up a notch, but that's a pain (mileage) when you're not dragging. The YukkieXL's/Burbans, and probably Tahoes/Yukons do have a "tow mode" on the transmission, which changes the shift patterns. Very handy, takes care of the overdrive issue. Towing packages are a must. (Tranny cooling/wiring/good hitch).

This is all the main reason I went with a 250 Water Ballast. (Not for looks or headroom) I looked hard at the 25, but decided I needed at least a 3/4 ton truck with big motor for that, and a new truck was not an option, I had just gotten the 1500 Suburban.

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 04/30/2003 21:52:05

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 21:49:23

>I do plan on getting a weight distributing hitch as it does porpise somewhat.<

Frank, Be very careful, as a weight distributing hitch can interfere with the surge brake actuator, which is integral to the hitch. My Trailrite trailer manual has pages dedicated to the subject.
First place I'd look when the tail starts wagging the dog is at your tongue weight. Ideally 10% of the trailer weight, not to exceed the allowable maximum as stated by vehicle and hitch manufacturer. Go to the scales, (truckstops have them, or else a scrap yard or gravel/sand supplier, when it's not busy). Weigh the trailer by itself, then with the truck, rear axel on the scale only, then the truck by itself rear axel only. Do the math.

You can vary tongue weight by moving stuff around the boat. If that doesn't cut it, you'll have to move the boat around on the trailer. Was the trailer made for the boat? Is anything adjustable? (ie bowrest bunks/rollers etc)

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 04/30/2003 21:54:57

Edited by - Oscar on 04/30/2003 21:58:47

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 22:21:06

Oscar,
My truck doesn't fishtail, indicating an incorrect tongue (too light) weight. By porpising I mean that my tongue weight and the stuff in back of the truck weighs down the truck, and it will bob up and down. A good friend of mine, who is an ex trucker diagnosed the problem when we were on the trip, and I trust his recommendation.
I do not use overdrive when towing. I know that it does make a difference.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 22:47:59

I've seen a number of references to the crew and supercabs but without mention of the advantage - <i>wheel base</i>.
I pull OJ with a 3/4 ton Suburban with a tow package - serious tow vehicle. I've never used anything else so I can't comment on others.
BTW, there are a lot of tow vehicles out there with undersized hitches. I have the "UltraFrame" from DrawTite. I also drilled a 1" hole through my steel bumper to install the all metal trailer light recepticle - no dangling wires, has a spring door to keep dirt and road salt off the terminals.

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Loren H.
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2003 : 16:48:05

Patrick,

I pull my swing keel with a 98 Ford Expedition with the 5.4 Triton V8 (350cc). It pulls just fine and stops nicely due to my dual axle trailer with dual electric brakes.

The only recommendation I would make is to add the lift bars at the hitch to reduce the porposing that Frank discusses.

When looking for my truck, I also looked at the Tahoe and found it would also work nicely as a tow vehicle.

Loren

"Epiphany" '78 SK SR #352

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 09:24:47

>dual electric brakes<

You splash those?

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 11:54:28

I agree with Larry. Dodge 2500, Turbo Deisel, extended cab, 5 speed manual.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf07b3127cce92174a1d6afe0000001610" border=0>
I have probably put on close to 5000 miles pulling Yahoo. The only times I have had trouble is when I didn't have the weight distributed correctly and then look out as the trailer whips and then snaps the front of the truck around. I have over 180,000 miles on this truck, pulling a wide variety of livestock trailers, boats, and utility type trailers. Two weeks ago I used it to tow a trailer rated at 19,000 GVW with 16,000 lbs of slate. The truck pulled fine, the problem was control. You need at least 10% of the tow load weight on the tongue to eliminate whipping. With the trailer weight and slate I was looking at 2000 lbs on the tongue. I was definately over loaded. 100 miles and two good sized grades made for a major pucker, especially going down hill.

I change the oil regularly and have had zero maintenance issues other the the usual tires, brakes, and batteries.

I think the Tahoe is just on the border line for any long hauls. The problem is more the wheel base being too short then anything else.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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dock
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 17:35:45

I happen to be the proud owner of a Catalina 25 wing keel/tall rig and a Ford Expedition 5.4. I just went from Colorado to Texas and back with this combination. Running at the speed limit plus was not a problem. Neither were the hills I encountered. I debated long and hard on what vehicle to purchase and I couldn't be happier with my choice.

The 2003 Expedition has independent rear suspension and this cuts down on the see-saw effect and gives you a much smoother ride.

It does have a 7,800# towing capacity in the four wheel drive model. The rear folding seats go completely flat for all that extra stuff we all seem to take on trips. You can even camp out in the back without removing any seats.

The diesel is nice but definately a over kill if you don't need a heavy duty truck. Watch out for Dodge/Chrysler, the automatic transmissions do not hold up in my opinion.

Did I mention I'm a manager at a Ford dealership!

"ParaDocks"

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Eric Dove
1st Mate

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37 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 15:46:04

I researched a lot of vehicles when buying one to tow my 83 SK TR. I also wanted a good all around vehicle that wasn't too large for everyday use. I decided on a '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 ('99 or newer is a whole different story than pre-99). It's a nice size, not too big, and it's tow capacity is 6500# with the V8(which is about 500# more than the boat, trailer, and gear). It's maiden towing voyage was to bring the newly purchased boat back 6+ hours from Maryland to Ohio which it tackled easily and it's done great since. The biggest thing when using a mid-size vehicle like this is to make sure the trailer is balanced right. If the tongue sits too low or high on a tandem-axle trailer, the whole thing shimmy's all over the place and yanks the car around. Once I got that staightened out it tows like a champ. On the ramp I put it in 4-wheel LOW, and I can deploy and retrieve VERY easily and controlled. I highly recommend it if you don't want to go as big as a Tahoe or pickup.

Eric Dove on Adelaide

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Eric Dove
1st Mate

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37 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 15:53:54

Also, I had my trailer weighed by itself (some stupid Ohio registration law) and it was just over 1000#. It's a tandem-axle EZ Loader, which is fairly common. That plus 4500# for the boat, plus maybe 500# for the motor and gear(if you've got 1000# of stuff like I heard mentioned in a couple of these posts, you might wanna consider leaving the kitchen sink home....that or you're looking for an excuse for a bigger truck ;) ) brings the total weight to around 6000#.

Eric Dove on Adelaide

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 19:02:28

Thanks Eric for the good trailer weight info.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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tzk53s
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 19:20:05

Lets not overdue the truck requirements. For almost all<b></b>Catalina 25's there is no benefit to go beyond a nice riding good fuel economy 1500 series GM product. These machines have time and again proven that they are more than capable than picking up the tab. Trailer condition is very important as well. An undersized trailer or one without a good braking system will get you in trouble with any rig. Gm has the most horses per cubic inch going. There fuel economy is a tick better as well. I would not trade my suburban for anything. Great all around hauler of people and "things". Having tried all the rest, I feel I am in the best of company.

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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