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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

keel freeplay and cable failure

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cat78
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/01/2010 : 14:06:47

I recently had a cable failure. I have owned the boat for about ten years and this is the first time, and hopefully the last time this has happened to me. Up until this year I have kept the boat in sheltered marinas but this year I had the boat on a mooring in a harbor. The swing keel has a lot of play, the boat is 1978, and I'm wondering if the fact that the cable being bounced around in the harbor as well as working of the keel caused the cable to break at the swedge. I have heard of people keeping the keel down at mooring so there is no stress on the cable. I am also looking into eliminating some of the play in the keel Cat direct recommends adding a bushing at the pin hole and changing the bronze hangers. Has anyone done this how hard was it and how did it work

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2010 : 15:07:10

The cable on the swinger should be regularly replaced as part of routine maintenance particularly in salt water. If you've been in salt water for 10 years without replacing it, consider yourself very lucky. Guys that have done it say it's not hard but, what's not hard for one guy could be daunting for another. It's the reason I don't have a swinger.

Edited by - on

mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2010 : 17:43:12

It sounds as if you not only should have replaced your cable earlier but the pivot pin, which will take some of the keel play as well. You can also glass or screw in some spacers to take some of the play out. There is not much to doing any of these things.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2010 : 17:51:42

Pretty simple, really. Replace the keel cable first because you'll want the keel almost full retracted to work on the pivot assembly, and get CD's improved attachment fitting. With the boat on the trailer, use threaded rod with nuts to replace the mounting bolts at the pivot one at a time and lower the keel to the trailer and a strong support. If you don't have a trailer, keep the boat low on stands and build a support so the keel only comes down a couple of inches at the forward end. Remove the bronze fittings and check the pin and hole in the keel for wear. If it is worn or the pin is deformed (it probably will be at that age), replace it with the pin and sleeve from CD. I think the sleeve is 1¹#8260;#8328;", but check. It is supposed to be drilled with a drill press and press fitted, but I bought a couple of bits from HarborFreight.com and hand drilled with a ½" drill and cutting oil and got a sliding fit. I back filled the surface of the hole and coated the sleeve with a very high strength, slow cure epoxy paste and let it cure for 24 hr. Grind off the excess epoxy and polish the stainless sleeve to prevent corrosion (a Dremel tool is great) and you are ready to reassemble. I put a thin nylon washer against the keel and a stainless fender washer against the nylon washer. The keel is rough and the nylon washer sticks and pivots with it. The fender washer provides a bearing surface larger than that provided by the bronze fitting and distributes the lateral load so the nylon washer doesn't quickly shred. It should require some challenging compression to align the fitting mounting bolts with the holes, but the stability and durability of my approach has made it worthwhile. I posted something about it a couple of years ago under keel pivot repair. It takes two partial days with the cure time, but it is neither as difficult nor complex as writing a description. I think there is something about lowering the keel with threaded rod in TechTips - it would have been easier to re-assemble if I had read that before doing it with long bolts. The basic approach is to put a nut and washer on the rod and turn them down 2", lock 2 nuts together on the opposite end of each rod, remove one bolt at a time and replace it with a rod, screw each nut and washer against the fitting, put a wrench on the locknut to prevent the rod from backing out, then just back off each nut one turn at a time until the keel is resting on your support.

edit: I guess the system didn't understand ASCII symbols for 1 1/8"

Edited by - Dave5041 on 09/01/2010 17:55:30

cat78
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2010 : 06:23:08

As far as replacing the keel cable the cable was just replaced this spring with a cable from catalina yacht.

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2010 : 07:36:00

If the cable broke at the swage on a 1978 boat, I'd be willing to bet the cable attachment was the old style, which didn't pivot. You need to get the new-style attachment from Catalina Direct.

When I first got my 1985 boat, there was a fair amount of lateral play in my keel as well. When I installed a new pivot pin and hangers, all that stopped. The hangers Catalina Direct sells are intentionally made too wide to fit -- they have to be machined down to fit your keel. That's a good thing.

Lastly, I'm the chairman of the "Keep the keel up at dock" club. The C25 manual says to do that (but hey, what do Frank Butler and Gerry Douglas know?); it keeps the bulk of the cable out of salt water, reducing corrosion; it reduces play in the keel from passing turbulence. The counter argument is that if the cable fails and the keel falls, the results can be catastrophic. My keel has stayed up at dock for 25 years in salt water with no failure, little corrosion on the cable, and only one hanger replacement. Go figure.

Edited by - Even Chance on 09/20/2010 06:03:28

Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
128 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 05:30:05

I am committed to keeping my Keel down.
With P/O the boat sank twice at its mooring after keel cable failure and then the next year cable attachment failure, both times the case was damaged with serious leakage . The Keel case has been rebuilt and is tight on the keel top section ( thus no keel movement when down )
I lift the keel part way until in shallow water then fully up such that no matter what the keel can never swing fully down .
Risk is Likelyhood X consequenses. The Likelyhood with now regular maintenance is very low BUT the consequences - disaster .
So Easy, I keep the keel down where possible .
I am interested if anyone uses a rope from winch to winch under the boat when the keel is up as an extra security .

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 06:00:12

I'm in fresh water and keep the keel fully down all the time with just a bare amount of tension on the cable, but I also have 24 ft depth at my slip. I'll check the cable and fittings on the next haul-out.

Cat78, where are you located, and do you need a trailer for your haul-out? I'm in Nashville, TN and have one available to rent if you are within a day's drive. It's a fin keel trailer, so there will be plenty of room to work under the boat.

I've dropped the keel and replaced the pin on our C-22, but not the C-25. I understand the process is essentially the same, using threaded rod as described above.

Edited by - dmpilc on 09/20/2010 06:12:54

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 13:04:55

Click his name, it's pretty far to Boomeroo's house.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.