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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Tohatsu vs.Yamaha

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JPS109
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/27/2014 : 13:19:31

There have been many posts about these motors. Yamaha is by far a better outboard.
Here's my story...

Last year I bought a Tohatsu 9.8 standard shaft outboard to replace my old Yamaha 9.9 high thrust, since it had become unreliable. The Tohatsu did not move my boat very well. I was able to bring it back to the dealer and replace it with the Tohatsu extra long shaft. I never felt that it powered the boat sufficiently either. I was able to sell it (thru the same dealer). I bought a new Yamaha 9.9 extra long shaft, high thrust motor this year. What a difference! My boat moves faster and the design of the motor is far superior. All controls are on the tiller handle, so there's no reaching back to the motor. Of course the Yamaha cost more, but it was money well spent.

Jim
'87 Catalina 25 #5574
Blown Away
Monmouth Beach, NJ

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 13:37:39

It's rather unfair to compare these two motors, A Yamaha 9.9 extra long shaft, high thrust motor vs a standard Tohatsu extra long shaft. Like comparing a 4cyl to a V8.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 16:12:09

My new-to-me Cal 25 came with a used Tohatsu 6 hp motor. I ran it for 45 minutes from the marina to the race course in the morning, and then ran it for about 4 hours to return to Annapolis from St. Michael's. It has a 3 gallon fuel tank, and only used about half a tank. I was stunned by the fuel economy. I didn't run it at full throttle. I ran it at about 5.25 kts. I opened the throttle briefly and it had enough power to push the boat to hull speed. The Cal 25 is rated at about 4000 lbs displacement, somewhat lighter than a C25.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 21:08:48

I like the tiller-handle controls... I didn't like that the electric start Yamaha High Thrust motors I looked at (about 12 years ago) didn't have pull starters in case the battery let you down. You had to remove the cowl and unbolt the flywheel cover to be able to wrap a rope around the wheel. The Tohatsu didn't exist (in this market), so I picked the Honda 8, which also had a high-thrust (larger, lower pitch) prop, and the shifter on the front instead of the side. It had great push, forward and reverse, and could stop my C-25 as if it had run into a pillow. It replaced an older, standard prop Honda 8, which by comparison felt weak for maneuvering.

The lesson I take away is HP is HP--it's the prop. "Standard" props on small outboards are intended for pushing small boats to planing speeds, not starting and stopping 5000 lbs. in a displacement hull.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/27/2014 21:12:34

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2014 : 03:53:24

I run 2 engines, changing them out whenever I want to tune one up or take it to the shop: a 1974 4hp Johnson with a 2 blade prop, and a 1984 6hp Johnson with a 3 blade prop.

The 4 hp 2 blade always feels better out on the water, the 2 blade prop moves the boat along nicely. It cavitates like hell in reverse and will not move the boat back in any significant wind. ( that prop is so old in forward it also cavitates like a hot tub ) I once blew the headgasket just trying to back away from the dock in a blow.

The 3 blade on the 6hp always feels like the engine is working harder out on the water, but works really nice at the dock, backing and slowing.

I always wanted a yammie, but now I'd really like to see a review on the new Evinrudes, especially the 4hp. ( 4 stroke, 1 cylinder )

We don't see a lot of Yammies on this inland lake... or Tohatsu's for that matter... I see the Hondas everywhere.

Edited by - redeye on 05/28/2014 04:00:19

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2014 : 05:18:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 
The lesson I take away is HP is HP--it's the prop. "Standard" props on small outboards are intended for pushing small boats to planing speeds, not starting and stopping 5000 lbs. in a displacement hull.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was actually just looking at the different prop sizes while trying to find an alternator kit for my Tohatsu 6hp 4stroke engine. It looks like what would be the standard prop on the motor is designed to push something from 500-1500 lbs. It looks like from this chart that the lower the pitch and the larger diameter is designed for higher weight/slower speed. To be honest though, I don't feel anything wrong with the way it is set up. Maybe if I were to try a different setup I could see, but for the most part the boat moves along quite happily. Starts 2nd pull every time, runs like a champ and sips fuel. Besides having the alternator on the motor, the only other thing I would change would be to have a longer shaft. If my weight is up on the bow pulling sails up into a chop and only my first mate is there keeping us into the wind, it can start pulling the prop out. Think its a 20" shaft.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2014 : 21:31:43

Yep, flatter and larger prop for loads, kind of like a lower gear. Any 8 - 9.9 XLS outboard will get a C-25 to hull speed at less than full throttle, but the right prop makes it more efficient with cavitation less of a problem and better fuel economy. The bigger, flatter prop moves more water at a lower velocity to get the same thrust at a lower boat speed. My Merc Bigfoot has a lower gear, numerically higher, than the standard Merc and a big, 4 blade, lower pitch prop.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2014 : 03:27:00

It is rare that I ever seen a post that someone was not happy with their outboard. It usually is the case that whatever one buys, they seem to be happy with it...perhaps this review is an exception but at least it provides a good comparison of differences between the high thrust and non-high thrust models out there.

I have a 2006 Honda 9.9 extra long shaft with a 4 blade prop. It has worked flawlessly with no manual choke, has the electric and manual start and has the highest amp charger for it's HP on the market. It also is the heaviest and most expensive and those two attributes obviously are not desireable qualities.

The most important qualities of any outboard is that it works everytime and with no hiccups in it's performance. Reliability and enough power to move the boat through the marina and in stormy conditions round out the most important attributes. Then it's a question of the weight, cost, past experience, recommendations and your preference......but most EMail threads regarding outboards...the majority love whatever they got.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/29/2014 03:28:42

GaryB
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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2014 : 16:43:48

I've got an '89 Suzuki that starts on the 2 or 3 pull every time but it has almost zero reverse. It's great in forward!

I usually have to push the boat about 1/2 way out of the slip before jumping on so the momentum will carry me out into the fairway.

Anyone have experience with an early 90's 8HP Tohatsu? I recently bought a used one and wonder how it does in reverse.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/29/2014 18:27:30

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2014 : 20:39:19

I bought a c25 with a 06 Yamaha 4 stroke and hated it. Horrible idle, short shaft, tiny little prop, no gear select on the tiller, tiller too long, and it weighed over 100 lbs. I swapped it out for a 96 merc 2 stroke with a high thrust solas prop. both 8 hp by the way. Much happier.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2014 : 05:32:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Akenumber
 I bought a c25 with a 06 Yamaha 4 stroke and hated it. Horrible idle, short shaft, tiny little prop, no gear select on the tiller, tiller too long, and it weighed over 100 lbs. I swapped it out for a 96 merc 2 stroke with a high thrust solas prop. both 8 hp by the way. Much happier.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've got a 95 8HP 2 stroke Merc that still runs flawlessly. After sitting all winter, it started right up on the second pull.

Edited by - on

gbward
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2014 : 06:15:37

A couple weeks ago, I bought a 2013 Tohatsu 6hp 4-stroke Sail Pro (extra long shaft with high thrust prop.) With it, I replaced my 1996 9.9 hp 2-stroke Evinrude Yachtwin that didn't like going into reverse.

So far, this is my impression:

-It is sooo much easier to carry and handle (60lbs Tohatsu vs 100 lbs Evinrude)
-It usually starts by the 3rd pull (I'm hoping that get's better as it gets broken in).
-It's very quiet and the vibration isn't bad considering it's a 1 cylinder.
-Fuel efficieny is excellent. I ran it at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle for 8 hours and only used 1.5 gallons of gas.
-6 hp is sufficient for my purposes. I use it for maneuvering in a tight marina and getting out to the main channel.
- At 50% throttle, with low wind and current, the motor can get my C25 up to 5 knots.

Hope this helps.

-Geoff

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2014 : 10:50:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbward
 A couple weeks ago, I bought a 2013 Tohatsu 6hp 4-stroke Sail Pro (extra long shaft with high thrust prop.) With it, I replaced my 1996 9.9 hp 2-stroke Evinrude Yachtwin that didn't like going into reverse.

So far, this is my impression:

-It is sooo much easier to carry and handle (60lbs Tohatsu vs 100 lbs Evinrude)
-It usually starts by the 3rd pull (I'm hoping that get's better as it gets broken in).
-It's very quiet and the vibration isn't bad considering it's a 1 cylinder.
-Fuel efficieny is excellent. I ran it at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle for 8 hours and only used 1.5 gallons of gas.
-6 hp is sufficient for my purposes. I use it for maneuvering in a tight marina and getting out to the main channel.
- At 50% throttle, with low wind and current, the motor can get my C25 up to 5 knots.

Hope this helps.

-Geoff
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My motor should be similar to yours. After looking around a bit and thinking, I am really tempted to pick up a new prop for it (which should be the same as what is on your's, 8.375" dia x 6" pitch). While my standard prop works fine, I think that is worth the $73 bucks tohatsu is asking (http://www.tohatsu.us/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=106184) to find out if it can work better. The standard prop cavitates a lot and is designed for a boat that weighs 500-1500lbs. Looking on some tohatsu forums, a guy had this setup on some smaller this or that boat and said it would plane and ride close to 14knots. That should work great to get the C25 close to hull speed efficiently. My 2cents.

Never changed a prop before though. Are there any wear and tear items i should also swap or special procedures I should follow? (Sorry, not to thread hijack)

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2014 : 11:31:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Are there any wear and tear items i should also swap or special procedures I should follow?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
New SS cotter pin and some marine grease on the splines.

Edited by - islander on 06/11/2014 11:44:03

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2014 : 18:45:25

These engines are interesting as none are designed for boats of our weight, they are modifications of generic engines that are designed to do much over a wide variety of boat sizes and weights. That said, the Tohatsu 9.8 XL has pushed my boat just fine over salt water that ranges from calm to quite choppy. The controls have been fine, electric start with a pull cord, which I tend to use instead of the electric star. My frustrations with Tohatsu are that 1. the cover does not stay on -- becoming loose -- so I need a strap to hold it on, and 2. the lever to lock in when raised or release to lower the engine (not the mount) is tough to reach, at least to me. I do believe that Yamaha and Honda are "higher quality" engines, but their additional weight is significant, especially when on a mount hanging off the transom of a boat. While I have not considered alternative props, I think any of the mentioned engines -- 9.8HP at least -- push our boats satisfactorily. It all depends on you preference for brand vs price.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2014 : 18:53:20

One additional note: becoming unreliable most likely was because of fuel "gum" build up caused by ethanol. Replacing/rebuilding the carb maybe a cheaper alternative to replacing the engine if it becomes unreliable.

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