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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/02/2005 : 07:59:00

Has the forum been slow lately for any one else?

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

N/E Texas and Great Lakes
Arlyn's Sailing Site

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/1999 : 20:54:53

Unable to access forum up until 9am eastern time this morning. When I was able to get here, the topics list were showing postings with dates in 1999

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 08:53:12

Sometimes I can't get on, or get time outs. The problem doesn't seem to be at my end, as other distant sites load fine at the same time. I just assumed we (the association) are using a lowest bidder ISP short on bandwidth and/or processing power.

-- Leon Sisson

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 09:53:50

I have been noticing a speed issue as well. Also, if we need to upgrade or change something, how about a picture storage place on the server. Trailersailor.com has this feature and it is awesome.

Perhaps if the officers cut back on the trips to the USVI, We could afford it.

Tom.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 10:03:33

Yes, I have experienced speed problems as well.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 10:11:38

The speed has been intermittent for me for a while now. The speed issue has been a recurring one, I do not know if each incident has had the same root cause. I often decide that the forum does not handle multiple hits well, it seems to be fine when no one else is logged on. I do know that ever since we began using "frames" I have had window anomalies; the most consistent being multiple scroll bar thumbs, (only one is real).

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 10:33:02

Intermittent forum response issues for me as well... sometimes goes into timeout range.
Haven't noticed any other anomolies.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 11:39:37

Since we are no longer using snail mail, and are using the server to save money, maybe we should look into upgrading our server service. I'm really don't know much about this, and am greatful to the members who are doing the computer stuff for us.
How much would it cost, and what would be the benefits in speed? I too am getting slow response. The forum search function usually times out for me, even if I'm searching one forum only.

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 18:47:56

I gave up trying to access the forum early in the morning (~0700 EDT) because frequently I could not log on. Assuming the access histories are maintained, any info available to suggest what the issue may be, i.e. are we really overtaxing the server?

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2005 : 20:50:37

yes, it has been a problem for a while.
Spike, any input regarding the server and our bandwidth allocation??

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 00:34:33

My speed problem is just old age, Oh did you mean the computer?

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 09:49:12

I share the same problems...Val

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 10:54:42

Lately I've been getting "page unavailable" messages or very slow loading.
Derek

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 13:00:15

I can't think of anything more important to the national association, or any better way to spend its money, than to make the forum work quickly and smoothly. The forum is what makes the association meaningful to us all. The association should have enough income to be able to afford more server capacity than the bare minimum.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 13:08:50

Not the best time for this to be happening where we are trying to get the Capri 25 Yahoo members to come over and check out the new forum as well.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 15:37:13

Steve and Rick make very good points, I agree.

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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 21:14:28

I've also had very slow loading & timeout messages. I agree - this forum is one of the greatest resources our association has. We should make sure the association has the resources to have adequate "oomph" for the forum.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 23:25:39

We're trying to get to the bottom of the issue, and would have said so sooner if it weren't so damned hard to actually get into the forum these days. Sorry for the inconvenience.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2005 : 21:11:47

Yeah, I can't get much over six knots.
What's hull speed on this server?

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Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2005 : 23:45:24

Still looking into it.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2005 : 22:57:53

I don't know about any one else, but I'm still having severe response time issues; on this site only. However, the 'page not available' type errors seem to have quit.

It came to my attention at work today that the Tier I peering providers are working on consolidating peering agreements in order to generate more revenue and reduce transit costs, and in so doing are downgrading many ISPs and ASPs. If correct, this will cause some providers to drop from being Tier IIs to IIIs and some Tier IIIs to IVs, etc. I'm sure it will also effect Quality of Service agreements, and cause the potential for additional hops along the way.

If time at work allows, I will do some research into this site's hosting provider's underlying peering, transit and access arrangements to see if industry changes may be affecting our service.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2005 : 09:57:36

Dispute leads to Internet woes for thousands
Thu Oct 6, 2005 05:49 PM ET
By Andy Sullivan
WASHINGTON, Oct 6 (Reuters) - Thousands of Internet users struggled to send e-mail and keep their Web sites running on Thursday after a dispute between two service providers left large portions of the Internet unable to talk to each other.

Computer technicians scrambled to shore up their networks after Level 3 Communications Inc. (LVLT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) refused to accept traffic from rival Cogent Communications Group Inc., (COI.A: Quote, Profile, Research) rendering large portions of the Internet unreachable by others.

"We weren't able to get to our e-mail systems, we weren't able to get to our externally hosted chat systems," said Bob Serr, chief technology officer at Chicago instant-messaging provider Parlano Inc. "Some customers say they've had trouble getting to our Web site."

The rift meant that thousands of customers -- including individuals who use Time Warner Inc.'s (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Road Runner cable-modem service -- were not able to view Web sites and send e-mail to servers located on the other company's network, violating the Internet's premise as a universal, borderless network of computers.

The dispute affects roughly 15 percent to 17 percent of the Internet, Cogent CEO Dave Schaeffer said.

"The usability and value people get out of the Internet is highly dependent on its ability to be ubiquitous and affordable, and I think what Level 3 is attempting to do is undermine both of those core principles," he said in an interview.

TOO MUCH COGENT TRAFFIC

Like other large, wholesale Internet service providers, Cogent and Level 3 handed off traffic from one network to each other free of charge, until Level 3 said that it was handling too much Cogent traffic.

"We felt that there was an imbalance and we were disadvantaged in that relationship and we were ending up with what amounts to free capacity," Level 3 spokeswoman Jennifer Daumler said.

Cogent's Schaeffer said Level 3 was simply trying to get Cogent to raise its prices, which at $10 per megabit are far below the market average of $60 or so per megabit.

Larger customers of each company have been little affected by the dispute because they usually sign agreements with several different wholesale providers.

But customers who rely entirely on either provider for their Internet connections would not be able to reach any Web sites or servers on the others' network, those involved in the dispute said.

That would include law firms, community colleges and companies like Parlano, which face lost business and angry customers from the outage.

"It's kind of a game of chicken to see who's going to blink first, and to see whose customer base wants connectivity to the other customers' more," said Alan Mauldin, an analyst at TeleGeography Research in Washington.

Parlano's Serr said he would stick with Cogent as his provider for the time being because he saw Level 3's move as "strong-arm tactics."

Road Runner said its customers have not been able to visit Web sites and send e-mail to Cogent customers.

"We are working to find alternate pathways so our customers can be connected with these Web sites as soon as possible," Road Runner said in a statement.

Representatives for America Online Inc., EarthLink Inc. (ELNK.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) MSN service said their customers have not been affected by the dispute.

Cogent ran into a similar dispute with America Online several years ago but it was resolved amicably, AOL spokesman Nicholas Graham said.

Cogent said it was offering Level 3 customers affected by the dispute a year of free service if they wished to switch providers. Level 3 said it was working with its customers to ensure they could reach the entire Internet.

"Level 3 is working with their customers and Cogent needs to work with its customers," Level 3's Daumler said. "If Cogent wants to make its customers happy they've got to figure out a way to get that connectivity to the Internet."

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2005 : 11:19:43

Hi JB,

Thanks for digging that up. I read it, but I'm not sure I understand it. Aside from all the mind-boggling technical stuff, the article said that Time Warner/Roadrunner customers were affected, but AOL users are NOT. I don't get it ... I thought those two ISPs were virtually identical ... plus, I use AOL broadband, and despite their claim, I HAVE had trouble with this.

Whatever is going on, I hope we get it fixed ... this Forum has become so unreliable in the past week or so, it is <b><i>painful</i></b> to use

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2005 : 14:39:14

IMHO to Officers:

The forum is the glue that holds the organization together.
If it becomes unusable, the C25 Org will fall apart.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2005 : 17:34:24

I'm not an IT guru, but I know just enough to be dangerous and to know that this is a complex problem without a simple a solution. As for the affect on this forum, there may not be a solution at all, and here's why:

Each of our individual computers accesses our ISP's servers via a local access line. In my case, the cable line from my house to Cox Cable's servers. Each of our individual ISP's servers, in turn, access other ISP's servers via long distance interexchange lines. For example, Cox Cable's servers connecting to Level 3's servers. Level 3s servers then connect to a web hosting company's servers via a second local access line. For example, the OC-3 (super high speed line) used by this site's hosting company, Adaptive.net.

Given the right set of circumstances, I click "Post New Reply" on my computer for this post, and the signal goes directly across my local access line to Cox, then directly from Cox to XYZ, and then directly from XYZ to Adaptive.net. The return signal confirming my post also comes directly back following the same path. Therefore, the speed of your computer, your personal local access line, your ISP's servers, the interexchange line, the other ISP's servers, the hosting company's local access line, and their servers all affect response times.

However, it's never that simple with the Internet. The complex relationships between all of the ISPs and hosting companies are known as peering agreements (when they choose to exchange traffic for free) and transit agreements (when they choose to charge one another). This means that the closer your computer is to a Tier I ISP (e.g., MCI) and the closer your target is to the same Tier I ISP, then the faster your response time, because the signal stays on virtually the same network. From one Tier I (e.g., AT&T) to another Tier I (e.g., Level 3), only slightly slower, because they are directly connected with big lines and exchange traffic freely. From one Tier III to another Tier III, significantly slower. The reduction in response time being affected by how many providers your signal has to "hop" through in order to reach your target, and the nature of the service agreements along the way. In the case of the Tier IIIs, you're likely to hop from Tier III to Tier II to Tier I to Tier I to Tier II to Tier III, and back again. All governed by the speed of the lines and the servers along the way.

The conclusions to be drawn from all of this are: 1) that consumers and hosting companies get better service from broadband access lines provided by Tier I ISPs (service quality, of course, being directly correlated to cost) and 2) some recent combination of events has affected this website's service quality. Without knowing specifically where along the service line the problem exists, the only solution would be to move the website to a new web hosting provider and hope the underlying cause isn't being experienced there, as well. However, in the amount of time that it would take to move the website, the problem is likely to resolve itself.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2005 : 20:20:29

With all due respect J.B. I do not think the forum speed nor the other issues with the association website have anything to do with the peering feud currently going on. This is the only site I have this problem with regardless of where I access it from. I believe the problem lies with the company hosting the association server. Whenever I run a trace to the server, it's never more than 10 or 11 hops and no timeouts. It's when I get here that nothing happens or it happens slowly.

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