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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Aft Stay Modifications

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Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/05/2007 : 19:19:49

I have a 2000 250 WK. The original owner modified the split aft stay by raising the bifurcation in the wire. This modification makes it much easier to walk under the stay, but also raised the turnbuckle. It takes a 12’ ladder in the cock pit to adjust the tension on the turnbuckle. I have seen that the new boats have a single stay without a split going to the port side. I am pulling boat out of water this week for bottom paint and would like to look at some options. Has anyone modified there aft stays or know if the design on the new boats will work on a 2000?

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frogger
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Response Posted - 04/06/2007 : 06:46:23

I also have a 2000 WK. My boat has the standard split backstay with wheel and joyseats. The backstay has to go! Any suggestions as to where to place the soon-to-be single backstay? I will have to redo/get a new bimini but the backstay must be moved.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/06/2007 : 07:25:40

Jarrett, on our 2005 C250WB we have the single backstay to the port side, and can't wait to get rid of it!
Our plan is to run dual stays from the outside of the catbird seats to the mast head, they will be secured to the seats with Pelican shackles with a hold down tube for extra security.

The new stays will run outside of the bimini and be clear of all movements about the cockpit and the swim ladder access area.

The Pelican shackles will make it a snap (excuse the pun) to setup each launch.

And .... Welcome to the Forum, you're at the right place.

Paul

Edited by - on

frog0911
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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2007 : 20:15:45

Jarrett, do a search in the 250 archives for "backstay mods" and you will find a lot of info and a picture of how mine came from the factory mounted on the inboard sides of the cat seats. Someone moved theirs from the stern to the outside of the cat seats, but I cannot find that post. I can tell you with the way mine are mounted I have not had a necktie party yet, like I had on one we looked at with the wheel and the stays mounted on the transom.

Edited by - frog0911 on 04/06/2007 20:17:32

AADIVER
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/06/2007 : 22:48:09

I understand the 250 backstay, split or single, is redundant, i.e. not necessary to secure the mast. I've heard for racing, an after market tensioner can be installed to bend the mast aft.
If this is true, why not lower the mast and remove the backstay entirely?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/07/2007 : 06:29:52

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">why not lower the mast and remove the backstay entirely?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Belt & <s>Braces</s> Stays.

Paul

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frogger
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Response Posted - 04/07/2007 : 12:17:42

I plan to convert my split backstay to a single backstay. Can anyone see a problem with using the welded ring on the starboard catbird seat as an attachment point? It's where the lifeline is attached.

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528
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Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 05:55:10

My concern with attaching to the stern-rail seat was flexing of the seat attachment points. There is a bit of leverage there. I went to a single, attached to the starboard stern eye. The cable runs just inside and under the seat's port side. I also use a cable cover to preclude scratching of the seat stainless. To use the seat, I would consider pretty large backing plates at all 3 points. I am satisfied with the current setup, so much easier getting to the wheel and down the ladder.

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John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 09:10:28

Having not yet rigged Kaija for the first time I have questions that may be obvious to the rest of you. If you change the backstay from a split to a single, doesn't that change the direction of the force on the mast? The rigging instructions (that I've read and re-read) say to tension the backstay enough to give a 4" aft-rake to the mast. If you do that, won't it change the dynamics and pull the mast to one side or the other? Do you then compensate by tensioning the opposing side shroud? Is there then concern about over tensioning when that shroud becomes the windward shroud? All this to gain what I can only imagine is a couple of inches of headroom. (Said by a guy that's 5'4" tall on a good day.) Or, are my questions just giving the old tars here something to chuckle about?

Thought of another question: Is this only an issue on "wheel" boats?

Edited by - John Russell on 04/10/2007 12:12:57

frog0911
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Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 10:27:34

Here is a picture of my split backstay as installed by the factory. They do have back plates rather than fender washers on the cat seat bolts.

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frogger
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184 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 19:21:43

Thanks for all your input! Getting rid of my split backstay (2000 WK with wheel)is improve my enjoyment immensley - especially when singlehandling. Haven't decided exactly where to place the aft stay attachment yet but it will be done soon. Thanks again.

Edited by - on

Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 00:28:29

I appreciate every one's input, Lot's of great ideas. As stated I have to climb a twelve foot ladder in the cockpit to reach my turnbuckle.

I ran a few of your ideas by a rigger today. These were his thoughts:
- No back stay. Would de-tune the mast, kill close hauled performance and is very dangerous.
- single stay to one side or other. Would require (as John stated above) tuning the shrouds to balance the uneven load put on the mast.
- Attaching stays to catbird seats. Would not solve my problem. My current configuration is similar too having two single stays. The stay was modified by previous owner moving the bifurcation up several feet. The stays rub the bottom of the catbird seats. I am 6'4" with helm steering I have no entanglement problems that some are talking about.
-The riggers recommendation was to install a wire block at the bifurcation. Run a fixed wire to current anchor points with an adjustable mechanical advantage MA (I think this is what Frank was mentioning). The MA would be a 4:1 like the main sheet or boom vang, only smaller scale. This MA would allow the 4" aft rack for fast close hull and let it loose for fast runs.

As all ways my 20' tow strap is still getting quite the audience at the marinas shallow launch;all went well. The bottom of Victory2 got it's belly scratched with some 80 grit as I refinish her bottom paint. I'm sure there is no whores chore on a boat.

Edited by - on

Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 00:54:37

One more question...
Can the mast stay turn buckle be adjusted with a CDI roller furling in place?

Thanks for all the help!

Jarrett

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 06:38:52

Jarrett,
You can raise the drum on the CDI and adjust the forestay turn buckle. Its not hard at all. Here are some [url="http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/forestay-adjustment-with-cdi.htm"]instructions[/url] I found doing a quick search using google.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 04/11/2007 06:41:11

bear
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Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 06:58:22

Jarrett, Here are a couple of suggestions when adjusting the CDI furler. The second set of hands are REALLY good holding up the drum while you adjust turnbuckle. If possible pull nose of boat into slip or dock, makes access much easier. I found if the jib is off it makes everything a lot easier........

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 07:31:14

Jarrett,
You could employ a similar method of split backstay adjustment as on the c25.

If you look at page 865 of the 2007 West Marine catalog, it shows the setup.

You could run the lower block in that setup to one of the catbird seat rails.

paul

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 16:34:13

I have a 2000 WK and it looks like the split backstays go to two attachment points on the transom. I'll be setting up the rigging for the first time this weekend. What is the problem with this arrangement that has everyone changing?

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Tom Potter
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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 16:44:19

The split back stays don't bother me. Must be a wheel thing. And besides it gives me a place to lean my solar panel when I'm cooking on the grill.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 04/11/2007 16:48:14

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 18:17:49

Tom, is correct, the split stay to the transom is a problem for wheel folks. The one I looked at before purchasing PennyII had this set up and the few times I went behind the wheel I almost decapitated myself. I was supprised when PennyII arrived and the stays were attached to the cat seats. Boy what a difference. Since I race single handed most of the time you can imagine what would happen rounding a bouy setting the sails and then getting behind the wheel in a hurry if the stays were still attached to the transom.

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frogger
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Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 18:38:33

It's a wheel thing - very frustrating to negotiate around the wheel.

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John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 18:47:34

Another good reason to have a tiller!

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Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 20:55:56

Ooh I had no idea there was a raw nerve hanging out with the tiller guys ;-)

Yes Randy, the aft stay connects to the two bomb proof u bolts on your transom. The problem with helm steering, the stock aft stay will catch most people in the throat. I typically lock my wheel when going forward or steer from the front of the wheel when I am trimming the sails. Then I steer with my big toe on the helm as I am sitting in the catbird seat with beverage of choice. I very rarely stand right behind the helm, normally only when docking. I hope you have the mini stays for your mast and mast raising system on your trailer for this weekend Randy, it is a very slick system!

I am leaning more towards leaving my aft stay mods as is with the high turn buckle on the aft, and ease tension using the mast stay turn buckle when lowering the mast(once a year).

Again, thanks all for the info!

Jarrett _/)

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 23:33:58

Yeah, the tiller guys have "wheel envy." Can't say that I blame them.

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frogger
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Response Posted - 04/12/2007 : 06:34:17

Am keeping the wheel. Split backstay must go. Tiller is not an option. Three main reasons for the Cat 250: wing keel, wheel, and enclosed head.

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 04/12/2007 : 20:19:42

If I recall correctly, someone solved the backstay issue by using a spreader at the split stay connection to the backstay. I'm thinking 18" might make a huge difference to getting around the stay.

As for the suggestion by a rigger to use an adjustable backstay... a derivative of the B&R rig is not a suitable candidate for an adjustable back stay.

I'd not be too concerned about an offset backstay... the backstay on the 250 should not be adjusted that tight to place an unbalanced load on the sidestays. Following this thinking... I also think the stern seats can handle the loads of the backstay.

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frogger
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Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 20:15:33

Offset backstay should not be a problem loadwise. Any adjustments to rigging would be minimal at most. Main concern would be restrictions on cockpit space, movement, location of bimini, etc. I want to keep it as simple as possible, i.e. no spreader on split backstay.

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