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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2007 : 12:40:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
I thought Capri was Frank Butler's "sporty" brand from the get-go. No?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">As I hear things told, Catalina bought the design from Capri Sailboats. They then changed the design to a more "cruiser" friendly model and came out with the Capri26. A great boat, but not a racer (I think my local PHRF authority throws darts to derive it's rating). To my knowledge, Catalina never actually manufactured the Capri25 (any of you younger CP25 owners have a HIN mfr ID to post?). They (Catalina) have, to some degree, continued to support the Capri25 fleet.

Here and there.

From time to time.

(I'm not knocking them, I understood the pitfalls of purchasing an older low-count model boat going in).

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2007 : 14:17:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Yeah, what Jim said!!! Thanks, Jim, for a re-statement of "what is" clearing up "what's assumed"

An interesting lesson in communications has taken place here. Many will remember that game of "Quarters" played in college. The story starts out as a simple statement then transforms itself into something completely new. In some cases, it can be damaging.

I read in the earliest posts on this thread that there are financial discussions taking place including changes in dues. Somehow that was morphed into a dues increase with sinister intentions.

I'm looking forward to reading the minutes in the member's area.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't think anything morphed. Kevin's first point in his first message in this thread said, "The other officers all (I think all, not sure) want to do a dues increase of varying amounts, and I just don't want to do that...."

Kevin didn't imply anything sinister about it, and I don't recall anyone else who did. Some of us expressed our opinions on the subject, and nobody "flamed" anyone, although an opinion or two were expressed firmly. The discussion seemed to me to have a very civil tone.

Some of us have been involved with the Association for many years, and we know some of it's history. From time-to-time, I see the members or officers thinking about taking some action that was tried before, and that had a bad result, and I tell them about it, so they can take that experience into account in deciding whether to go ahead with the proposal, or whether to try it differently, or whether to reject the idea.

The matter might very well have been just as Jim described it. Maybe it was just an option. Maybe it was never seriously considered. But, now that it has been discussed, it appears that there is considerable opposition to the idea. All things considered, it's good that the members had an opportunity to express themselves before a dues increase was enacted, because, if it had been enacted in the face of strong opposition, it could have generated serious consternation among the members and adverse consequences for the National Association. It's good that it never got to that, and that's because it was discussed openly and without undue passion by the members.

I think something especially good has come of the matter. Apparently the current by-laws permit the officers to raise the dues to a given extent without putting it to a vote of the membership. I can't imagine why such a provision was adopted, because, when we can communicate so easily by computer, there's no reason why the officers can't consult with the members, or solicit a vote by the members, before enacting a dues increase. For that reason, the officers should adopt a policy that, whenever they are considering a dues increase, they should always discuss it fully on the forum, even though the by-laws don't require it. There's no reason not to do so. It gives the members the respect that they deserve. It acknowledges that, if the members are fully informed about a proposal, they'll make a reasonable decision, because we all enjoy the forum, and want it to continue to thrive.

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2007 : 16:03:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
I don't think anything morphed. Kevin's first point in his first message in this thread said, "The other officers all (I think all, not sure) want to do a dues increase of varying amounts, and I just don't want to do that...."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think the "morph" happened between the board meeting and Kevin's initial post.

As I stated earlier, I was not under the impression that "the other officers all" want a dues increase. This from the first two board meetings prior to Kevin's resignation - of which Kevin was unable to attend the second, and therefore was unfortunately unable to fight for his position.

Between that 2nd meeting and Kevin's notice of resignation, I don't know if there were conversations outside the normal board meetings during which he was pressured against his stance, but I'd hope he didnt feel pushed out by any other member due to his opinion on a subject.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2008 : 22:17:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 I don't favor a dues increase. When I was Commodore we had something like $14,000 in the bank. That is way too much. We spent some on the web redesign. Run the association as is, with dues as they are or even lower them until this huge excess of $$$ is run down to normal levels (something like $1000).

Face it, the Nationals will die out. No one is racing C25s. They are not race boats. They are not even good cruising boats. They are great day sailers that can be cruised if you don't mind being crowded and slow or raced if you don't mind being the last boat in.

I love my boat and I enjoy this association. I don't even read the Mainsheet, nor any other sailing magazine.

Don't raise dues. It will kill what remains of this group.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jim has been Commodore of the Association and understands that racing our boats is marginal at best.
I disagree with his opinion of the Mainsheet but he doing more with his boat than any other owner that posts on the forum and will bring a measured approach to the association.

John Gisondi
Nominee for Secretary
Peregrine - #4762Mainsheet Editor 2002 - 2006

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2008 : 22:47:36

I don't have a dog in this fight -- my only real interest is in the web site. In the past I've proposed, without success, that the Mainsheet either be optional or be emailed. My church, like many others, is making the transition from snail mailing copies of our monthly newsletter to emailing it, as well as making it available on our web page for visitors. Our plan is to continue to mail it to the very few people in our church not on line, and to have physical copies at our information centers at the entrances.

The Mainsheet holds little or no interest for me. Granted, the magazine is much larger than a church newsletter, but I would submit that if 2/3 of our dues is for mailing that publication, we might want to look at some electronic options. Most mornings I read four newspapers on line, for free. It saves money and the planet. It might save the Association as well.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2008 : 23:03:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 Thank you Kevin for your obvious integrity and honest sharing of your reasons for stepping aside.

Regarding being out of step... I disagree that it is you that is out of step. The association has some history of the issue you describe and the destructive nature of it when leaders activities are funded by the membership dime.
I suggest that your perspective is the wise one in avoiding an era of destruction if such a policy is adopted of increasing dues to fund special interest by a few.
I give notice to leaders who may go that route that I'll personally be very vocal in opposing any dues increases for the purpose of funding racing or cruising interest of a few members.
I further oppose dropping the Mainsheet subscription so that funds might be diverted to special interest individuals.

I urge the remaining leadership team not to take the association this direction as it will be very destructive to the association.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is the central issue that I have consistently worked on.
Arlyn knows how the racers, including the current Commodore tried to use the Association to further their own interests.
They used their power to restrict voting to attendance to the so called "Nationals" and tried to raise dues to pay for trips to Nationals, it was fought and defeated.
Now by restricting the association governance to the forum they again try to keep the voices of the PAYING members to a minimum.
In this thread you can see how they tried again to use the association for their own purposes.
I continue to fight for the equal voice of every PAYING MEMBER, racer or cruiser and make this assoc. an asset to all.

John Gisondi
Nominee for Secretary 2008
Peregrine - #4762
Mainsheet Editor - 2002 - 2006

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 08:49:07

A few thoughts on the subject of the 'membership' participation.

Anecdote:
As an active member of a club, part of the oldest community service organization in the world, and having held virtually every office within that club over the past 16 years and currently the club secretary (going around the buoy) I have an insight into the way at least one membership group functions.

The 80/20 rule applies pretty well. 80% of the work on behalf of the membership is done by 20% of the members, 20% of the members are responsible for 80% of the groans and moans, 20% of the membership raise their hands when called to volunteer, 80% of the membership will sign a check at any time.

Our club has fallen in membership, but not due to the club, but due to circumstances ranging from the passing of members, relocation's, and the current economic times. So the percentages have moved away from the 80/20 rule as those members still in our very active club are the ones that stick it out when the going gets tough.

Ok, end of anecdote.

My experience is probably light compared to some of the members of this association, however, I believe that my following point is true.
A member that participates by reading the Mainsheet each quarter but is not a frequent visitor to the forum is not getting much value from the association. It's a matter of participation. If one of my service club members only showed up 4 times a year, they would neither benefit the goals of the club nor benefit from participation in our weekly meetings, socials, community service projects, etc.

This forum (using the word literally) is one of great benefit, it has value to the newbie about to buy a boat, or the old codger restoring a C25 hull number in the teens.

If the participation were limited to the quarterly magazine, it's value would be a fraction of participation in the forum.

I believe that we should drive owners of C25s/C250s/Capris to the forum and even extend the content beyond what it has now. We should encourage frequent participation in the forums. We should encourage the membership to contribute to other areas of the website: Cruising Charts & Logs, Racing Results, Rules and tips, Trailering tales and destinations. And yes, I feel that we should develop an online version of the Mainsheet.

An important point that may not be obvious: If a member is responsible for a post on the forum, a crusing story, participated in a race, designed a neat repair or mod to their boat, then they feel a degree of ownership, and then they will go read their own story. Expanding the participation in the forum and other areas of the site lead to more 'ownership' and more 'participation' and increases the value of the site to everyone.

But I also feel that our receipt and participation in the Mainsheet are an important part of this domain. When the Mainsheet arrives, I'm probably not the only one to turn directly to the two sections on our boats and glean what I can from them. But then, I suspect like many others, I turn to the other sections of the magazine and read about the passages of bigger, and smaller boats. Knowing more about the choices out there either reinforces the belief that I own the ideal boat, or it adds wind to the dream of owning a bigger boat and going to more distant ports.

In all of this, my key point is frequent participation. Some may say that Absence makes the heart stronger, but Out of sight is out of mind. We (humans) tend to stay close to things we enjoy and get benefit from. The website offers so much more than the Mainsheet, and can offer even more.

Finally, there is a cost to participation: If you fall out with your neighbor you either have to mend fences, build bigger fences or move out. The Internet has made it easy for people to post their opinions (such as this) in an instant. Sometimes we might wish that we could recant some of them, and sometimes, the temptation to stand upon a soapbox and pick at people, even when the intent is valid but the method and practices is not.
We should not badmouth anyone on this forum, "It is not the person, it's the issues". When an issue arises that that we take umbrage to, we should address the issue, not the person or personality involved.

Keep the Mainsheet (And encourage Catalina to produce an online version similar to the concept produced by BoatUS, then I'll request they stop sending me the printed version.)
Expand the website
Encourage greater membership participation in all areas of the website and in their locale.
Deal with the issues, not the personalities
And go sailing! (Cruising, Racing or just out for an hour or two.)

Paul

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 09:23:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 Arlyn knows how the racers, including the current Commodore tried to use the Association to further their own interests.
They used their power to restrict voting to attendance to the so called "Nationals" and tried to raise dues to pay for trips to Nationals, it was fought and defeated.
[...]
John Gisondi
Nominee for Secretary 2008
Peregrine - #4762
Mainsheet Editor - 2002 - 2006
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">WO-AHH there cowboy. Careful about lumping "the racers" together in one box. You might wanna get your facts straight before you sling 'em out. You might also try getting some more current fodder for your cannons - the restriction of voting must have happened before my time, as did the officers going to the Nats on the assn $0.10.

And while we're on the subject of slinging:
John, why are you dredging up a 10month old thread just to post the same thing you said in the (more current) "Officer Elections - The Ballot is open" thread? Should you win your bid for Secretary can we expect the same kind of activity in the minutes of the meetings?

Off the slinging subject:
Paul - nicely posted above. Personally I dont read the Mainsheet at all, and would prefer an option in the membership to not receive it. If that included a lower-cost membership (since the subscription to the mag is a hefty % of the does), even better. There's significantly more/fresher info here on the website than there is in the MS. That said (and before anyone comes after me with a bayonet), let me state that I am not advocating withdrawing from the MS! For some people that may be the only contact they have with the assn, as it may be.

[Maybe I should just go back to hanging out in the racing forum and not get sucked into these feeding frenzies...]

J

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 12:40:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 Thank you Kevin for your obvious integrity and honest sharing of your reasons for stepping aside.

Regarding being out of step... I disagree that it is you that is out of step. The association has some history of the issue you describe and the destructive nature of it when leaders activities are funded by the membership dime.
I suggest that your perspective is the wise one in avoiding an era of destruction if such a policy is adopted of increasing dues to fund special interest by a few.
I give notice to leaders who may go that route that I'll personally be very vocal in opposing any dues increases for the purpose of funding racing or cruising interest of a few members.
I further oppose dropping the Mainsheet subscription so that funds might be diverted to special interest individuals.

I urge the remaining leadership team not to take the association this direction as it will be very destructive to the association.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is the central issue that I have consistently worked on.
Arlyn knows how the racers, including the current Commodore tried to use the Association to further their own interests.
They used their power to restrict voting to attendance to the so called "Nationals" and tried to raise dues to pay for trips to Nationals, it was fought and defeated.
Now by restricting the association governance to the forum they again try to keep the voices of the PAYING members to a minimum.
In this thread you can see how they tried again to use the association for their own purposes.
I continue to fight for the equal voice of every PAYING MEMBER, racer or cruiser and make this assoc. an asset to all.

John Gisondi
Nominee for Secretary 2008
Peregrine - #4762
Mainsheet Editor - 2002 - 2006
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My involvement with the National Association began in 1983, when I raced in the first National Regatta and was subsequently elected Chief Measurer. The next year, I was elected Commodore. Since then I have either been actively involved with the National Association in an unofficial manner, or have kept up with its activities through the Mainsheet.

Arlyn Stewart's comments referred to a year, many years ago, when the officers decided that the National Association should pay all their expenses to attend the National Regatta. They spent a lot of money on themselves, the members were outraged, and it nearly destroyed the National Association. That happened long before any of the current officers were involved in the National Association. It happened so long ago that not many of us are still around who even remember the incident. No current officers had anything to do with it. Since then, the officers have not benefitted themselves by abusing the treasury. Arlyn's comment was made because, a year or so ago one of the officers suggested that their expenses should be paid to the National Regatta, and Arlyn and I both expressed our opposition to the idea in the strongest possible terms. I made reference to the occasion when it had happened before, with such disastrous consequences. The officers completely and properly rejected the suggestion.

Neither the racers, nor the current Commodore have "...tried to use the Association to further their own interests." Nor have they "...used their power to restrict voting to attendance to the so called 'Nationals' or tried to raise dues to pay for trips to Nationals." The time and manner of voting is governed by the By-Laws, which are published elsewhere on this website, for all to see. The suggestion to pay officers' expenses was made and promptly dismissed by the officers. John's suggestion that he has been fighting the good fight on behalf of the members is not consistent with the facts.

It is well known that our officers serve voluntarily, without pay and without perks or benefits of any kind. The primary motivation of the officers seems to be to keep this organization functioning, so that the free flow of information and camaraderie will continue. Financial reports are made regularly, so that any member can see where their money goes.

One of the benefits of the internet is that it's hard to fool people with false claims when there are so many people around who actually know the facts.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 15:22:02

Our yacht club is hosting the S2-7.9 Nationals next month. I'm going to be taking notes while I help out on the committee boat. Also, the club has asked the various fleets to help with food, so our C-22 fleet will be cooking one of the meals. Just something to think about. I'll let you know how it all turns out.
gotta go pick up the admiral from phys. therapy (knee replacement 3 weeks ago). Chow!

Edited by - on

C25-Observer
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 22:15:53

Steve Milby was gracious enough to post the following.

"My involvement with the National Association began in 1983, when I raced in the first National Regatta and was subsequently elected Chief Measurer. The next year, I was elected Commodore. Since then I have either been actively involved with the National Association in an unofficial manner, or have kept up with its activities through the Mainsheet.
Arlyn Stewart's comments referred to a year, many years ago, when the officers decided that the National Association should pay all their expenses to attend the National Regatta. They spent a lot of money on themselves, the members were outraged, and it nearly destroyed the National Association. That happened long before any of the current officers were involved in the National Association. "

Oh Steve....
You may want to dig through your old Mainsheet mags.
Who contributed to the Feb. 2002 issue?
Hint...Just two writers.
You wrote..
"That happened long before any of the current officers were involved in the National Association."
OOps...

Just the just the post to make our day.
Many thanks...

Stay tuned.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 09:00:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by C25-Observer
 Steve Milby was gracious enough to post the following.

"My involvement with the National Association began in 1983, when I raced in the first National Regatta and was subsequently elected Chief Measurer. The next year, I was elected Commodore. Since then I have either been actively involved with the National Association in an unofficial manner, or have kept up with its activities through the Mainsheet.
Arlyn Stewart's comments referred to a year, many years ago, when the officers decided that the National Association should pay all their expenses to attend the National Regatta. They spent a lot of money on themselves, the members were outraged, and it nearly destroyed the National Association. That happened long before any of the current officers were involved in the National Association. "

Oh Steve....
You may want to dig through your old Mainsheet mags.
Who contributed to the Feb. 2002 issue?
Hint...Just two writers.
You wrote..
"That happened long before any of the current officers were involved in the National Association."
OOps...

Just the just the post to make our day.
Many thanks...

Stay tuned.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John, the dispute to which I referred, that nearly destroyed the National Association, happened, to the best of my recollection, sometime around the early 1990s. I wasn't active in the Association at that time, but I was aware of the turmoil. None of the present officers were officers at that time.

You'll have to explain to me what the authors of two articles in the Mainsheet in 2002 has to do with that event which happened a decade or more before. I'm in Maryland for the summer, and don't have access to my back issues of Mainsheet, but the only article that I recall writing for Mainsheet at about that time was on the subject of Cruising the Gulf Coast of Florida. It had nothing to do with the Association or its long-past financial problems. If that's the article you're referring to, I wrote it because you had just been appointed Mainsheet editor, and needed an article for the next issue, and I wrote it to help you out.

I don't understand how it "made" your day for me to correct the factual and historical innacuracies in your posts.

Edited by - on

C25-Observer
Deckhand

Members Avatar

15 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 10:58:17

Steve writes;
"I'm in Maryland for the summer, and don't have access to my back issues of Mainsheet, but the only article that I recall writing for Mainsheet at about that time was on the subject of Cruising the Gulf Coast of Florida. It had nothing to do with the Association or its long-past financial problems. If that's the article you're referring to, I wrote it because you had just been appointed Mainsheet editor, and needed an article for the next issue, and I wrote it to help you out.

I don't understand how it "made" your day for me to correct the factual and historical innacuracies in your posts."

Enjoy the crab cakes and soft-shell crabs. When you get home dig through the boxes and pull out the Feb. & May 2002 issues.
Indeed you wrote a piece for the May 2002 issue on Florida.
Hmm... Who contributed in the Feb. 2002 issue?

As for "I don't understand how it "made" your day for me to correct the factual and historical innacuracies in your posts."
Well...Hmm..Let’s see...
Oh Yes That's It.
You've done neither.

http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
Visit the Blog read the truth. Careful we play rough there.

We will post any comments that are not out right lies or contain obscenities."

Fair Breezes
C25-Observer

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 11:39:59

Hey guys! Did you know the Reagan Administration set up an illegal profit-center by selling arms to Iran in order to support the Contras in Nicaragua? You can look it up in the November, 1986 Mainsheet... We should start impeachment proceedings! (No, this is right on-topic!)

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2008 : 13:33:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Hey guys! Did you know the Reagan Administration set up an illegal profit-center by selling arms to Iran in order to support the Contras in Nicaragua? You can look it up in the November, 1986 Mainsheet... We should start impeachment proceedings! (No, this is right on-topic!)

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Zactly! WTF, even if the events John eludes to (nebulously) and the article mentioned are relavent to the topic (from 10mo ago) of this thread - as near as I can tell we're talking 2002. Folks, this is 2008 and, unfortunately as it means my sailing season is drawing to a close, nearing 2009. This is about the CURRENT assn and it's FUTURE. 2002 was SIX YEARS ago, can we please focus on TODAY, TOMORROW and the NEXT YEARS?

John continues to claim that the racers and "current officers" have repeatedly attempted to usurp the assn funds for their own gains, and as someone who's been on the staff conference calls for the past year I can state that NONE of the officers have tried to do this. The ONLY issue that has come up regarding assn members (John, please note that I used the term MEMBERS, and not OFFICERS) utilizing assn funds has been for social get-togethers in places where hopefully several lucky members were able to all be at the same time (eg: boat shows, regattas, etc). This was NOT sending the OFFICERS on some boondoggle, this was assn MEMBERS having a drink or two paid for by the assn.

Unfortunatly we're not all located within driving distance of each other, so it's difficult for us to have a real assn "social", per se. And I'm here to tell you, there were a LOT of conversations regarding these events and whether the assn should contribute (not PAY FOR, but CONTRIBUTE). Most of the negativity around this stemmed from the old Nats issues. Were there going to be officers present at these socials? That's very possible, and to tell the truth I dont recall if there were or not; nor do I give a rip. Officers are members, too. These "events" were not limited to officers, but were open to all members. Heck, I think there was even talk that we should include non-members who could be prospective members.

My point is, these were not officer junkets. These were MEMBER socials, and if an officer is gracious enough to take time out to join the fun, buy him/her a friggin drink fer crissakes. Same goes for ANY member that deems to join, and I dont care if they heard about it on the website, from the MS, or read it on the bathroom wall. If they have an interest in the C25 assn and maybe even something to contribute (besides animosity and dredging up past events), buy them a dam drink too. [Edit: just to clear the air, I was NOT fortunate enough to attend any - and as I recall even that policy died out, at least I dont recall hearing of any recently].

Hey, did you people know that Thomas Jefferson actually OWNED SLAVES?

J

Edited by - SailCO26 on 09/13/2008 13:37:27

C25-Observer
Deckhand

Members Avatar

15 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2008 : 09:18:26

"John continues to claim that the racers and "current officers" have repeatedly attempted to usurp the assn funds for their own gains, "

No one has EVER accused anyone of misappropriation of Association funds.

To make that accusation is a GROSS (deliberate?) misrepresentation of the issue at hand.
The issue is the steady erosion of the ability of the members to be fully informed and participate in the governance of the Association. Now that the financials are out everyone can see that this has led to a steady erosion of the membership.
To repeat;
NO one has Ever accused officers of misuse of the association funds.

http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
Visit the Blog read the truth. Careful we play rough there.

Unlike Jim Stark's post we do not make false accusations.
We will post any comments that are not out right lies or contain obscenities."

Fair Breezes
C25-Observer

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 10:50:12

<s><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by C25-Observer
 No one has EVER accused anyone of misappropriation of Association funds.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm calling BS. Look above in this very thread, posted 09/11/2008 at 23:03:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 Arlyn knows how the racers, including the current Commodore tried to use the Association to further their own interests.
They used their power to restrict voting to attendance to the so called "Nationals" and tried to raise dues to pay for trips to Nationals, it was fought and defeated.
[snip]
John Gisondi
Nominee for Secretary 2008
Peregrine - #4762<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">[italics mine]
Note that I did NOT state that funds were misappropriated, I stated that you claimed the officers TRIED ("attempted") to use assn funds for their own uses.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by C25-Observer
 The issue is the steady erosion of the ability of the members to be fully informed and participate in the governance of the Association.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Can I call BS 2x in the same post? John, if that's THE ISSUE, then why do you continue to bring up the distant past? You obviously have a grudge against the current commodore (you have that right) and gripe about him (you have that right, too), yet he's not even running for re-election.

"erosion of the ability of the members to be fully informed" No members are locked out of this PUBLIC website. No members are denied access to the Mainsheet mag. What's keeping members from being "informed"?

"and participate in the governance of the Association" Who's being denied participation in the governance of the assn? We made a PUBLIC announcement for volunteers for ALL assn offices. ALL members are allowed to volunteer (including YOU!) and vote for those officer candidates (including you). I strongly believe that if you dont like the way something is operated, either get out or volunteer and make a change. I fully support your right to run for office and do just that, just as I support anyone else who qualifies to run for office.

If THE ISSUE really IS "the steady erosion of the ability of the members to be fully informed and participate in the governance of the Association", then let us please stick to that topic and effect results in that area.

Jim Stark
False Accusator, if John's to be believed.
"Mast abeam!"</s>
Edit: I see that this same conversation is occuring in another thread. In an attempt to make life easier on John so he need not copy/paste his posts, I will withdraw this post. I will also make an effort to not further feed the trolls.
JS

Edited by - SailCO26 on 09/16/2008 11:28:29

BengeB
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 10:07:48

I don't like the idea of increasing dues, but I do think the association should pick up the cost of modest trophys for the nationals. I don't understand why there should be extra cost for cruisers to get together. If we need the increase to cover what the association has been doing so be it. If it is for additional activities, I don't like the idea. I do think if there is an increase $5.00 should be the max. After all that would be 20%.

Edited by - on

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