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Solar Panel Location

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2008 : 19:26:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 I think 50 Watts is too much unless you run an LCD TV or something. I have an 18W providing 1.2 amps. Lots of sun here in Alberta. My batteries are always topped off. I imagine if you buy a 15-20W and put some of the money you will save towards LED lights you should have all the power you need. I have this [url="http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10300752&search=solar&Mo=31&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-CA&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&Sp=S&N=0&whse=BCCA&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&Ne=4000000&D=solar&Ntt=solar&No=7&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1"]one[/url], paid $160 and it came with the charge controller.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Something to remember Steve, at higher latitudes, we have much longer days than they do in Florida in the summer. This means your charger may be running a couple hours per week longer than theirs.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2008 : 01:09:52

True. During our Alberta summers the sun rises at 7:00 and sets at 10:30 (even 11). This makes 16 hours of daylight, and possible 14 of sunlight. If we calculate that near the equator you get 11 hours of usable daylight then Alberta gets 3 extra hours per day for a total of 21 hours per week. So 14 hours X 7 days = 98 sun hours. Equator gets 11 X 7 days = 77 sun hours. So Alberta has about 22% gain over the equator meaning that the equivalent of my 18W in the Equator you woudl need a 22.5W.

Oh but I just remmebered that Paul installed an air conditioner. No wonder he wants a 50 watts.
50W = 4.6 amps (peak). So in a perfect world, if you have 2 batteries with 800 amp hours each (1600 hours) it would take 347 hours to fully charge (from dead) and at 11 hours per day it would take you 31 days to fully charge. Somehow I don't believe my own numbers, 31 days seems way to high. Where am I going wrong in my calcuations?

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2008 : 05:50:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i]

Oh but I just remmebered that Paul installed an air conditioner. No wonder he wants a 50 watts.
50W = 4.6 amps (peak). So in a perfect world, if you have 2 batteries with 800 amp hours each (1600 hours) it would take 347 hours to fully charge (from dead) and at 11 hours per day it would take you 31 days to fully charge. Somehow I don't believe my own numbers, 31 days seems way to high. Where am I going wrong in my calcuations?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow, 2 batteries with 1600 Amp hours would cost about $24,000! You would have to pull a barge behind you with the batteries! That may be where you are going wrong. My batteries have about 107 amp hours. Usable power is half that as you do not want to deplete the battery completely. So about 53 amp hours each or 106 total (2 batteries). My panel puts out about 4 amp hours/hour. A sunny day can produce maybe 7H x 4amp = 28 amp hours. Plenty if I'm not staying on the boat every night. Air conditioners? I can say only one thing: shore power.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2008 : 08:08:11

Paul also carries a gas powered generator to power that A/C.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2008 : 18:17:55

[url="http://www.wagonmaker.com/newbatt.html"]

[/url]

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2008 : 19:21:50

LOL. I guess I "overestimated" a battery amp hours.

Hey Paul, I'm suprised you didn't respond to my painter's stick idea on page 1 of this thread. Just saw some nicer ones at Home Depot with no blue lock.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 03/27/2008 19:24:24

britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/27/2008 : 20:36:30

Steve,
thought it was a good idea.
Of course it'll have to be upgraded to a corrosion resistant metal (Randy?)

My plan is to make the initial build from aluminum to iron (no pun intended) out any challenges, then upgrade if needed to SS.

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2008 : 22:33:53

The telescoping pole is all aluminium and plastic. Are you concerned about corrosive materials inside the pole (like springs)?

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2008 : 05:53:25

I checked out the poles at Lowes HW store. The idea is sounding even better. At first I was concerned that as the max collasped length would be half the pole length, then I'd be limted to lowing the panel to 45degrees. Then I realized I could just use a longer pole. It might even be easier to adjust from the helm seat rather than stand on the seat and fiddle with a wingnut. If I used the outer part of the pole for the top, then when loosening the gripper I could use that to move the panel up and down.

The only downside to the pole is the limit of panel rotation to 180 degrees as the pole would hit the top of the bimini when the panel support was rotated. However, that might not be such an issue as the pole would allow the raising of the panel above the horizontal to deal with times when the sun was fwd of the beam. I'll update my sketch.

(not to scale)

Have to figure out a nice looking connection at each end, really don't want to duct tape it

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 03/28/2008 06:21:36

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2008 : 10:57:33

Looks really good. And as you have illustrated the top part should be the largest. This way rain or water will not tend to leak into the bottom tube but rather slide over it. I think a pole with an "adjusting gripper" or external lock mechanism is better since it probably has no internal spring or components that may rust. I think all this is is 2 tubes with a plastic lock gripper.

I think I'm going to go with your design. When are you going to make this?

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2008 : 19:12:52

The panel arrived today with the regulator.
Very pleased with the appearance of the panel, very lightweight and just 13" x 21" and 1/4 thick.

Took another look at the telescoping poles at Lowes, the twise grips were not as good as I thought, they required one of the telescoping tubes to be totated in order to extend. However they had a different type and that had a clever stud and hole feature. Press a lever which lifts a stud out of the holes in the inner tube, release the lever and the stud springs back into the next hole as the tubes move. $49

So I thought about it and decided to build my own telescoping arm. A couple of square aluminum tubes that slide over each other, manufacture the stud and a fitting for each end. And ACE hardware sent me a $5.00 coupon today

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2008 : 00:28:23

Square tubing is a good idea. You'll probably only have to drill in a few holes. I say you need only need 3 positions: 45° up, level, 45° down.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 03/29/2008 00:28:51

britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/30/2008 : 20:51:01

I couldn't find tubing the right sizes at my local hardware store, so I purchased one of the telescoping poles as suggested. Looking at it's bit-n-pieces to see how it might work.

Paul

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 09:59:39

Here is my simple set up. Solar panel with a Ram mount. I have since moved it to the vertical tubing at the back of the stern seat. At the slip I set it so it catches the best rays as the sun passes overhead. When out and about, I will point it at the sun making adjustments throughout the day. It has a plug on the end of the cord so I can remove if needed.

Just food for thought.

Edited by - welshoff on 03/31/2008 10:05:25

britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 12:56:42

Wil, thanks for those pics.
We had considered the RAM mounts, great little devices, we have one for holding the GPS to the Pedestal Guard! The admiral was worried about dinging the panel (she's at the helm when we come alongside.) and about swim ladder access and me raising the engine. Hence our choice of using the mast support pole. We also have a bimini and that might sheild the panel from sol somewhat.
Wil, what kind of fitting is that on the stbd side under the catbird seat, is that an electrical disconnect for the panel?

Anyway, here's my intended electrical schematic.

This configuration will require that I use the O/1/2/Both switch to select the battery for charging as well as for supply off charge.
I'm going to disconnect my Guest charger as I believe it will be obsolete here in Sunny FLA.

The panel is 24w. My calcuations using Don Casey's forumla (pg 123) indicates a need for around 8.6watts to maintain the battery. So we should have ~16watts available. Loads

I have not shown fuses and quick disconnects.

I realiz

Paul

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 13:41:52

I was using a 20watt Duralite solar panel and a MorningStar solar controller to keep just one deep cycle 12 volt battery topped off. I live in sunny north Texas. After a few rainy days and some cloudy ones here and there, it usually fell just a little short of keeping the thing fully charged. Despite the fact that there is nothing using the battery, I still had to do a little shoreline charging once in a while.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 16:40:07

John, you have to love this stuff.
The numbers get more and more confusing.
My design has been biased by the later option of adding a 2nd panel. The regulator can more than handle 48w (it has a 15amp capacity = 180w)

Don's calc suggest
(Battery AHr * 0.3% ) * 16(volts charging)

eg. 180Ahr *0.003 = 0.54 * 16 = 8.64watts. (~= 0.72amps charging)

And 24w @ 16v = 1.5amps for charging which should be plenty!

On the other side of things.

180Ahrs / 1.5amps = 120hours of charging! (assuming charging a pair of flat batteries)

I could play with the numbers all day long, empirical data will say a lot more.

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 20:06:48

Paul, don't forget you will be running your engine once in a while. 12 amps at 3000 RPM and 2 amps at 1000 RPM.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 20:19:41

Your're right Steve! So how come the engine doesn't boil the batteries?

Paul

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welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 10:49:49

Paul,
Yes, that is an electrical "plug" for the solar panal. It is a two prong plug with a twist ring to lock it in place. Let's you remove the panel if needed.

I removed it the first time I trailered the boat. Forgot to take it off the next trailer trip, since then I leave it in place all the time. Tough little panel.

FYI - My solar panel wiring goes through a solar regulator directly to the batteries only.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 19:10:58

Wil, thanks.

FYI, the reason for updating the wiring and including the higher end regulator as shown is in anticipation of us adding a 2nd panel later.

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 20:00:22

My plug in smart charger does 2A, 10A and 15A (quick charge). But it has a controler to stop when the batteries are full. Does the Honda have some type of controller? What happens when your batteries are fully charged and you keep motoring at high speed?

Sorry I'm a software guy, no good with electrical stuff.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 04/01/2008 20:00:47

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 21:46:53

John,

If you are using a 20 Watt solar panel it should keep one battery fully charged. Something must be wrong. I am using a 20 watt solar panel for 2 - 12 volt batteries and it does keep them fully charged.
If you have a series of overcast days, well then during those days it probably will not keep your battery charged but a 12 volt, depending on summer or winter, will trickle down about .25 to just under .5 amps a day. A 20 watt ideally will put out 1.2 amps a day but should average between .4-.8 amps/day except for overcast/rainy days. So, if your battery is not staying fully charged, there must be some reason for that.

Is your Morningstar controller the one with a digital readout ? If so, then you can tell what it is putting out all the time. If not, then you will have to hook up a multi-meter to determine if your panel is putting out somehwere close to the above. All panels are not equal. The less expensive ones have their crystals arranged in a way that if your panel is slighlty shaded by a mast or a pole that is nearby on the dock, then the panel may not put out anything. Other panels when slightly shaded (ie. 10%) will still charge to soem degree. During the winter months, the sun is also lower in the sky, so a tilted panel toward the sun will charge the battery better. I leave my panel in a tilted position toward the sun in the winter and soon I will reposition it so it is in the horizontal.

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 23:56:36

I agree. In a perfect world, a solar panel could and would keep my battery completely charged. I was referring to the weeks when one cold front after another comes thru and the sun doesn't come out for a week. You might check your battery and find that is only has 12.1 volts in it. Of course, when the sun comes back out it will eventually charge the battery back up. I have my boat in a slip now and find that it's more reliable to use a smart charger plugged in to shore power. I believe keeping a battery 100% charged greatly extends its life and saves wear and tear on the checkbook. If you got shore power, you might as well use it.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 07:44:28

nicely put Larry and I totally agree with John about shore power. We don't have a slip, but the boat is on the end of a 100' extension cable from the house

I'm glad to learn that 20W does keep your batteries loaded even in those northen climbs.

When I'm rewiring the boat, I'll be check voltage drops and current flows(leaks).

Paul

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