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Need a new mains'l: what brand?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2002 : 18:01:48

Richard,

The photo that you posted looks like a flattening reef. It can be used in different ways. You can adjust it by easing the boom vang and mainsheet, pulling that yellow reefing line down to the boom, without making any adjustment to the cunningham, and then re-tensioning the mainsheet and boom vang. If you do it that way, you don't have to touch the halliard. To shake it out, all you have to do is release the yellow reefing line. That is the quickest way to use it, and the way that I use it most frequently.

If the wind is blowing a bit harder and you want to take out a little more sail area, you can pull both the yellow reefing line and the cunningham down to the boom.

On my boat, I have a 3' length of genoa track attached along the starboard side of the boom, near the aft end of the boom. A movable genoa car with a turning block is attached to the track. On my boat, the yellow reefing line isn't run exactly as the photo shows. On mine, the end of the reefing line is tied to a stainless steel S-hook. The S-hook is hooked through the flattening reef grommet. The other end of the line is then passed through the turning block, and it runs forward along the boom, through pad eyes, and is tied to a jamb cleat, near the gooseneck. To use the flattening reef, I ease the boom vang and mainsheet, pull in the reefing line and tie it off at the jamb cleat, and then pull the mainsheet and boom vang back in.

Singlehanding, it takes about 20-25 seconds to tuck it in. If I practice a little with crew, we can do it in about 5-6 seconds. Crew gets into position on the coach roof near the starboard side of the boom. The skipper eases the mainsheet. Crew releases the boom vang, pulls in the reefing line and wraps it around the cleat, and re-sets the boom vang. The skipper pulls the mainsheet in again.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2002 : 18:14:21

Steve:

Thanks -- I'm SLOWLY learning.

Regarding whether there's more stress on the clew of a loose-footed main vs. a bolt-rope one, maybe someone could attach a scale between the clew and their outhaul and test it both ways (under same wind speed, wind angle, sea state, etc.). That may be the only way to truly settle it.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2002 : 22:04:22

Regarding loose versus bolt rope... The forces from the sail are the same. With a bolt rope, the upward forces are spread across the boom, and a small amount of the outhaul force is absorbed by the friction of the bolt rope against the slot. Loose footed, all of both sets of forces are concentrated on the clew. Would the sailmaker make the same argument if we left all but the top and bottom slides out of the mast slot and cranked the halyard down until the luff was straight? No sailmaker will convince me the clew shouldn't be stronger when loose footed.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2002 : 22:07:50

Duane,

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I have to believe that the mainstream moved away from the flattening reef (and or shelf foot) for a reason. I am …just trying to find out why...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I don’t think flattening or shallow reefs are old technology. Having a shallow reef enables you to quickly reduce the area of the mainsail by a little bit, balance the sail plan and reduce tiller pressure when you are not grossly overpowered.

Apparently, the reason why people are considering shelf-footed mainsails to have become old technology is because someone studied the airflow over the surface of shelf-footed mainsails and found that there is drag along the foot of the sail. The presence of drag means that the air doesn't pass smoothly over the surface of the sail, and thus the sail doesn't generate as much power as previously thought. In my opinion, proven only by my own observations and experience, the amount of drag probably varies with the windspeed and direction, and is very, very slight.

The technology that is currently favored is the loose-footed mainsail, which can be adjusted to have a deep pocket along the foot, and it can also be quickly and easily flattened when the wind increases, but, unlike the shelf-footed mainsail, it doesn't generate drag along the foot. At least that is the current theory.

I have heard some people complain about loose-footed mainsails breaking out the clew, and I mentioned that so that people who are thinking about buying one can discuss that subject with their sailmakers. I bought a new shelf-footed mainsail about a year-and-a-half ago, without even thinking about a loose-footed mainsail at that time. If I was buying today, I would probably opt for a loose-footed mainsail, because I like to try new and reasonably proven technology, but I don’t regret having bought the shelf-footed mainsail. I have every reason to believe that the loose-footed sail is only minutely faster that the shelf-footed sail. Sailmakers would like us to believe that we have to have all the current technology, and that we have to buy new sails every year or so, in order to be competitive. I don’t believe that.

In 1983 I raced Captiva Wind in the C-25 Nationals with her 2 year old dacron mainsail, 110% and 150% dacron jibs against a boat that had a full complement of laminated sails of all sizes, and three spinnakers, each cut to be used in different conditions. His tactician was furnished by his sailmaker, and his crew consisted of first-rate amateur sailors. I was my own tactician, and my crew consisted of my wife, a young sailor and his girlfriend. After four out of five races, we were leading by about 10-11 points, which is a huge lead. Two marks before the finish line in the fifth and last race, we were in second place, and passing the lead boat when the grommet ripped out of my 150, the halliard went to the top of the mast, and we had to sail the last two legs of the race on the mainsail alone. My young crewman wanted to free climb the mast to bring the halliard down, but I wouldn’t let him do it. By the time we crossed the finish line, enough boats passed us to put us into second place overall in the National Regatta. Two years later, using the same dacron sails, I won the National Regatta against 28 other boats, some of which had new, laminated sails. I don’t doubt that the latest designs and high-tech materials make better, faster sails, but I have seen, from my own experience, that what matters most in yacht racing is what you do with your sails, and not how your sails are made. Whenever people say they want to buy new sails to improve their racing results, my advice is to prepare their boat better and improve their skills first. They might find that they don’t need new sails.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2002 : 01:48:33

But IF you do need new sails then I'd recommend Gary Swenson of Ullman Sails in Ventura, CA.....
Someone might think about gathering all the above sail "talk" and sticking it in the newsletter next time. Just a thought.
Gary
Hemet, CA

C25 tall/wing
Classical Cat #5944

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gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2002 : 01:51:00

...and just in case someone MIGHT think I work for Ullman and I MIGHT be doing what "Anthony" did to us, forget it!!! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

C25 tall/wing
Classical Cat #5944

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