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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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question about securing tiller

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dave andersen
1st Mate

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85 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/06/2009 : 10:02:04

We have our C-25 on a bouy outside Langley Harbor here
on Whidbey Island in Puget Sound. The boat is subject to some
bouncing and hobbyhorsing when it's secured to the bouy.
A few days ago, we came out to discover that the main bolt
securing the tiller had unscrewed itself and dropped
overboard.

The tiller was hog tied as far as it would go to the
port side of the stern pulpit stansion. Is this the proper
way to secure the tiller? Or should it be secured amidships to
align itself with the keel? Thanks for your wise
counsel on this question.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5906 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2009 : 10:26:35

When the boat is left on a mooring, IMHO, the tiller should be secured amidships, because it will help the boat vane into the wind, and, if there's a current, it'll vane into the current as well. If there are both, it'll probably be more likely to point into the average of the two, instead of sailing back and forth from one to the other.

In any case, the tiller should be secured, because the constant movement of an unsecured rudder will wear out the gudgeons and pintles more quickly. I doubt that securing the tiller to one side had anything to do with the bolt coming out. I always had a lock washer on mine, and it would still work it's way loose occasionally, so it pays to check it periodically.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2009 : 10:57:23

This is a good topic, I usually tie my tiller to port simply because it's out of the way over the engine well. I hadn't thought about helping the boat point into the current better, but that makes good sense. In our slip I think it's fine the way I've always done it, but when we're anchored out or hanging on a buoy, I'll try it with the rudder centered and see if that helps with the hunting.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2009 : 13:10:50

I'm not on a mooring, so I cleat mine off to starboard. I secure the tiller with a ny-loc nut and lock washer and have never had a problem.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3473 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2009 : 15:28:06

This may not work for you but the way I secure my tiller is the following:

I first slide on the tiller cover. Then I take the excess of the furling rig line (that's what's left after the furling line secured to a cleat on the port side just forward of the stern rail side stanchion) and holding the tiller amidships, I then wrap the line 3 times around the outside of the tiller cover toward the end of the tiller handle. Then I secure the line to a cleat on the starboard side just forward of my stern rail side stanchion.

This is how I leave my boat at the end of the day and also use same basic setup when I am leaving my marina and raising or lowering the main sail when single-handed sailing.

One of those tiller friction locks will work as well.

I do not have a real good photo to show what I am describing. The below photo shows the port cleat used to secure the furling rig line and you can make out the line then wrapped around the tiller. It then is secured to a cleat on the starboard side. When I leave my boat for the day, I secure the main sheet as shown i the photo - It's secured by one twist knot that is then hanging onto the end of the tiller...and when I put the 3 wraps around the tiller with the furling rig line, that's how I secure both the tiller and the main sheet loops.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2009 : 18:00:54

I have two dedicated lines with eye splices at each end. The lines go around the stanchion closest to the end of the tiller, and then both eyes are on the tiller - a line on each side. They hold the tiller firmly centered in the cockpit. I have a lock washer on the tiller bolt -- nyloc would also work well.

Great boat pic, Larry. You should be proud!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3473 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2009 : 21:11:02

Thanks Brooke !

Well, the value of this Forum is always learning new tricks....I see the merits of you having the lines attached to the stern side stanchions with the loops at the end of the lines ready to attach to the tiller. The benefit I see is that perhaps it is a bit faster to slip on the loops when getting ready to hoist or lower the main sail when single-handed sailing. But main benefit is that your method does not allow the tiller to move from center - The loops hold it secure in that position. Sometimes when I go to hoist the sail or lower it, the line I have on the varnished tiller will sometimes slip a bit allowing the tiller to move to one side or the other.

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/06/2009 21:12:21

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2009 : 21:48:22

I did a similar thing to keep the tiller amidships. I too have a strong current, and need to keep things aligned, or the boat will tug against the docklines.

I took a piece of 3/8" line, put a bowline on one end, wrapped it around the port stern cleat, then I put a few loops around the end of the tiller handle, then pulled the line to centre it up.

On the starboard stern cleat, I tied another bowline knot, and looped it around there.

It works fine, and because the line is led back, I can move around the rear of the cockpit. If the line were tied to the stanchions, they'd be in the way when I wanted to fiddle with the engine or the gas locker.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2009 : 05:24:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 The benefit I see is that perhaps it is a bit faster to slip on the loops when getting ready to hoist or lower the main sail when single-handed sailing. But main benefit is that your method does not allow the tiller to move from center - The loops hold it secure in that position. Sometimes when I go to hoist the sail or lower it, the line I have on the varnished tiller will sometimes slip a bit allowing the tiller to move to one side or the other.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Larry: bite the bullet and get a tillerpilot. That was one of the first things I did when I bought Chance eleven years ago. Most of my sailing is single-handed, and moving the halyards to the cockpit helped, but installing the tiller pilot kept the nose of the boat into the wind when needed. It also allows me to tend to other . . . necessities . . . without worrying about the boat rounding up or gybing.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2009 : 07:13:00

After putting on the tiller cover, I just pull the tiller up and loop the lower line of the main sheet around it. Tighten the main sheet up snug and and the tiller is secured in-line with the keel. I learned this from others in the marina.

Edited by - islander on 06/07/2009 13:49:06

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2009 : 09:08:11

I'm in a slip, and generally use the adjustable backstay line, 2 wraps around the tiller after putting on the tiller cover, and cleat it to the port stern cleat. If I was on a mooring, I would secure it amidship in line with the keel.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3473 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2009 : 20:02:41

Brooke,

Couple of reasons why I have not considered the Tiller Pilot. First, for the short period of time raising the main or lowering it, using a line to secure the tiller has worked out fine...and has benefit of no electronic or mechanical parts to break down. The second reason is that in the Potomac River where I sail, oftentimes, I have to tack frequently. So, a Tiller pilot would seem to have little use for me.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2009 : 20:19:35

Larry, if you're happy, I'm happy. However, you should know the Raymarine ST 1000 has an autotack feature that, by pressing two buttons simultaneously, tacks the boat 100 degrees to either side. Mine is 10 years old and has been repaired once. I can't imagine sailing without it -- I consider it a crucial safety feature.

But -- to each his own.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2009 : 20:56:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dave andersen
 We have our C-25 on a bouy outside Langley Harbor here
on Whidbey Island in Puget Sound. The boat is subject to some
bouncing and hobbyhorsing when it's secured to the bouy.
A few days ago, we came out to discover that the main bolt
securing the tiller had unscrewed itself and dropped
overboard.

The tiller was hog tied as far as it would go to the
port side of the stern pulpit stansion. Is this the proper
way to secure the tiller? Or should it be secured amidships to
align itself with the keel? Thanks for your wise
counsel on this question.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"the main bolt securing the tiller had unscrewed itself and dropped
overboard."

Try using a nylon lock nut.

They lock tighter and won't back off until you need them to.
I have tied my tiller off to the side for years with no ill effects. It makes the cockpit much roomier.

Edited by - Peregrine on 06/07/2009 21:00:42

Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2009 : 22:57:29

Does anybody use a Tiller Tamer? I've been thinking about getting one . . .

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 05:43:13

I have used a tiller tamer and liked it quite well, but had to replace my tiller and haven't reinstalled it because I bought a auto-tiller. As far as centering the tiller- I raise mine as far as I can and put a bungie around it and my double back stay, although you might need something more solid in a ripping current.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 08:22:50

For years, I thought I would have little or no use for an autopilot. All that changed after I finally bought one. It virtually changed my whole sailing experience in an instant. Before the autopilot, I'd more likely take a pass on those days when one would prefer an extra person to help out with things. Trouble is finding someone to go out with you on a less than perfect day. After I bought the autopilot 6 or 7 years ago, I don't even give it a second thought.

Some might think an autopilot is nothing but an unnecessary frill or luxury, but as a singlehander, like Brooke, I also consider it a crucial safety item and there is no way I'd ever be without one. My only regret about the autopilot is that I wish I'd gotten it six years earlier.

Edited by - dlucier on 06/08/2009 08:23:25

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 08:33:54

Would you believe I've had my Simrad TP22 for a year now and have yet to run the wiring? I know, I should be slapped! Business, Girlfriend, the power boat, the new house, only one day off a week= a busy guy. But I'm getting off my ....... butt ...... bought the wire yesterday. And I know you're right Don, so many times I don't go because on a windy choppy day you'd like an extra hand. It was doable with the tiller tamer but it'll be a breeze with the autopilot.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 08:43:34

Ditto on the auto plot. Tiller tamer for backup and at the mooring. Surgical tubing or bungies to back up the back up.

Edited by - aeckhart on 06/08/2009 08:44:01

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 10:08:24

I just keep a short bungee in the cockpit with the tiller cover. I raise the tiller up and bungee it to the backstay. The advantage to having the tiller in the raised position is that it frees up room in the cockpit during boarding.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3473 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 15:49:32

Well...based on these comments...I will budge just a bit. maybe...maybe I will consider an Autopilot for a future purchase. What that means is that I may start looking into it.

You guys are certainly an influence.......definitely has cost me a few bills with all the suggestions each has to offer......but I have to say I'm much better off now and much more knowledgeable. Let's eee...it started with a fishfinder and toilet bowl wax ring transducer install.....then a self-inflatable vest....Tilley hat....back aways we had a discussion on whether to get a new base vhf and a remote to it...and you guys indicated get a handheld instead and keep the old base vhf....so just got my Standard Horizon HX600S submersible handheld !! I am going to lay low on the need for an Autopilot for now and see if i have to scratch that itch sometime later.

Thanks loads guys !

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 19:21:35

OK - so what does an autopilot cost? $500, $1000? That's a lot of beer (for plying would-be crew).

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 19:35:33

Raymarine ST 1000 is around $ 500. It doesn't burp, pass gas, talk back, ask stupid questions, or get in your way. What's that worth to you?

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 21:49:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Rich G
 Does anybody use a Tiller Tamer? I've been thinking about getting one . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Before you screw holes in your tiller and add a clunky piece of hardware to it you might try some of the less invasive ways of keeping the tiller in line. See the May Mainsheet Tech Tips.
Bungee or line wapped around the tiller and secured to the aft cleats.
If these methods don't work for you go ahead and buy the Tiller Tamer.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2009 : 04:26:14

I use the tamer and run the lines through to the cam cleates that were used for the traveler. I've tied off my traveler in the middle. I didn't add any additional hardware, just the two screws on the tiller to mount it.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2009 : 05:49:07

Yeah, it's a very simple install. Also as AL suggested it's probably the best way to keep your tiller amidships at the dock or mooring.

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