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Reconstructing the C 25 Table

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jebrant
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/28/2009 : 06:58:39

Well I don't see any new posts and I've begun working on my C25, so I'll post my project.
I've started my first significant improvement by pulling out the original table and constructing a replacement.
I've been lurking around here for a few months but I'd like to get involved in the community and meet some new people.

In any case, on to the problem. In my 1983 C25 the dinette table is a fold-out contraption that fits in against the wall when not in use. First off, it's heavy! It's constructed of 3/4" particle/fiber board covered with faux-wood plastic laminates. Ironically, it is equiped with a real teak wood leg to sort of legitimize it an otherwise all teak wood boat interior.
The fold-out leg has no stability and the two metal support mounts that pop into the wall to support it also have no stability since they don't lock. And last, the fold-out leaf will positively knock the table down when you fold it out mostly due to it's great weight and lack of locking supports. Does anyone else have this problem?

The project: Make the table lighter, more stable, and of real wood.
I've decided to retain the table hardware and stock mounting locations. I decided to construct a foam-core laminate panel for the table surface and add reinforcement strips to mount the leg, and supports. I used simple pine 1/2" strips to create a frame for the table and Luan 1/4" plywood panels. I couldn't really find teak plywood locally and I wanted a durable finish. The Luan has a grain that does not contradict the teak wood grain, or shall I say it is not dissimilar the way a wood like oak or birch would be.
After creating the frame I used 1/2" foam sheet and cut pieces to fit tightly in the frame. Then the plywood panels were cut to the same outside shape and size as the frame. I used only staples and glue to create the frame and the first panel was secured with tight-bond II glue. I let it dry clamped together for a few days.
I used the 3M adhesive spray on the plywood inside and on the foam sheets and then stuck them into the framework and pressed them in tightly. Finally, I used tight-bond II on the frame and then sprayed the whole face and back of the top plywood surface with 3M adhesive, carefully placed the last panel in place on top then pressed it. I then clamped it in place for 24 hours to cure.

Results for the first panel are really good. It is light and strong and you can stand on the panel without any give. The foam sheet provides the stiffness and solid feel to the wood while saving weight.
The hardware attaches very securely.
I test fit it yesterday and although the supports aren't locked in yet, being lighter made it more stable and it fit well. I served hot chocolate for the wife and kids on it and it held up fine. The reduced weight is great and improves inherent stability though I haven't constructed the other leaf yet. It is unfinished right now but the appearance looks great already.

I will post pictures of the finished project and if I decide to make the fold-out leaf then I'll take some pictures of the construction process.

1983 Catalina 25,"Rose Marie."

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 07:23:49

James! Welcome to the forum! A lot of thought going into this table top. Interesting ideas and would love to see the process and end result. A friend is who building a 28' sailboat from scratch has has used Luan (Mahogany stained with several coats of polyurethane) for some interior accent pieces and the results were stunning.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 10:50:16

Welcome!!!

My sailing buddy has a folding table like that on his C-25 swing-keel model. Is yours a swinger, too? You might want to add your boat identification to a signature you make up on your profile. That helps us understand your comments about your boat better.

You seem to live a few hours from Galveston - Do you sail on the Gulf of Mexico or on an inland lake?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5368 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 14:57:53

Welcome James!
I like your project a lot, since I'd like to replace the particle board monster with something a little shorter and less intrusive, but just as strong.

You can add a latching mechanism to the wall mounts (as in my boat) [or some kind of tie-down] to keep the table firmly in place.

If you search the forum for dinette or table, you will find several posts with pix.

Once you have some photos of your new table, upload them to flickr or picasa (or something else) and use the [ img ] put the URL here [ / img ] macro codes to post your photos.

If you click on "Forum Code", you will see the option on the list of codes.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 15:08:30

What exactly is the foam core. Can I buy it at Lowes. Do you have a part number from where you bought it?

I planned on making a table (I have the dinnett) out of 1X6 pine joined together but then I thought what you said about weight.

Thanks for any help

Edited by - on

mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 15:28:58

I don't know that I would use straight pine in a marine environment. It seems to be too soft to hold screws securely and has a tendency to warp.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 16:16:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In my 1983 C25 the dinette table is a fold-out contraption that fits in against the wall when not in use.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Welcome to the forum!
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that if your table folds up against the aft side of the port bulkhead, you have a traditional interior as opposed to a dinette layout, or do you have the L shaped interior?.
At any rate, making a new table is a great project!
Shoot us a couple of photos when you get a chance.
Dan

Edited by - on

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 18:55:58

Hi, I am also new to the forum and got my hands on what appears to be a 1985 boat, and I also have a table issue. My table is completely missing. I have what looks like a L-shaped interior. There is a circular contraption on the floor with a hole in it. Most likely that held a post of a table of sorts. Does anyone have a picture for me that shows me what this would all look like in real life, so I can make an attempt to build something that looks like it, would fit and most likely can be converted into some type of sleeping arrangement. Measurements would be great, but beggars can't be choosers, and just a few photographs would help at this point.
Thanks, and happy new year to all.
Jan

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2009 : 21:50:42

Jan,
I wasn't aware the "L" shaped interior was used as late as 85 but what you describe sounds correct. I can take some pictures this weekend but if you are missing the entire table I would start thinking of a complete replacement. The table in the "L" shaped interior can be lowered to the level of the seats and, along with the cushion that matches the dimensions of the tabletop, makes a bed suitable for two (if no one is over 5'). A better use of the sleeping area is to span the aisle way with boards and inflate a queen size air mattress across the width of the cabin. Below are the layouts of the three different interiors with the table area darkened. Dinette, traditional and "L" shaped.

img]

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 02:43:04

Jan:
If your interior is the first one as depicted by "Sloop Smitten"(dinette) the dimensions are 24" X 39".

Edited by - on

jebrant
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 07:56:59

Thanks for the enthusiastic welcome!
I'll respond to several of the posts at once with some new information.
I currently live in Ft. Hood TX and I sail the boat on Stillhouse Hollow lake. This is about 70 miles north of Austin TX. I've been taking it out about twice/week since I bought the boat off the last owner back in July. My boat is a fixed fin keel with a tall rig, has a 5HP honda outboard that I worked on and got running real nice. I got it with 3 genoas, 110,135,155 as well as a spinaker that I haven't even attempted to pull out of the bag yet.

All the rigging was in good shape and the boat hull was sound though there were a few small gashes on the keel that I actually repaired before dropping it back in the water. When it was pulled out onto the trailer the keel hit a few of the sharp spots on the trailer. I shredded some woven fiberglass mat and refilled the two gashes but otherwise no issues.

The only problem I had was during heavy rains water would get in or when I took it out for a while water would show up in the front but I found the anchor locker drain was full of mud and when full or when I healed over water would come in the hole where the bow light wiring was run. After clearing the hole the boat has been dry in any condition so I was very pleased as you can all imagine.

I've only been sailing down in Corpus Christi twice, once on a cat and once in a small 14' boat, but never in Galveston. I haven't loaded the 25 up and transported it yet but I will get the chance in the next six months as I'm being stationed in New York soon.

Edited by - on

jebrant
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 08:09:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Welcome James!
I like your project a lot, since I'd like to replace the particle board monster with something a little shorter and less intrusive, but just as strong.

You can add a latching mechanism to the wall mounts (as in my boat) [or some kind of tie-down] to keep the table firmly in place.

If you search the forum for dinette or table, you will find several posts with pix.

Once you have some photos of your new table, upload them to flickr or picasa (or something else) and use the [ img ] put the URL here [ / img ] macro codes to post your photos.

If you click on "Forum Code", you will see the option on the list of codes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks! I have the table setup that is attached to the Port Bulkhead that someone described. I will post the before picture and add a picture of the boat to my sig later today if possible.
I have to create the other leaf but the table works perfectly right now other than the stability and it is quite bit smaller and lighter.

I'll get on it today if possible and get some pics up. I also have some ideas on how to secure the table better to the wall but someone suggested some latches and I may consider that as well.

For the other question on this process:
I just named it foam core because I'm using it to fill the space and stiffen the panel.
If you buy 1/8" hardwood laminate plywood and 1/2" thick foam sheet insulation from Home Depot and sandwich the sheet between the wood with a good quality adhesive then you have the core as stiff foam sheet and the outside as hardwood veneer if you will and it will be exactly 3/4" thick.
You do have to have something stiffer at the edges because it will crush down so I made the framework, like a picture frame first.
I would use 1/2" hardwood strips then select a hardwood that you might like, maybe oak, birch, luan, maple, etc.
You will need about one 4x4 sheet of hardwood plywood, 1/8" thick
one 4x8 sheet of foam insulation 1/2" thick that you can cut into two 4x4 sheets for transport if you need to.

Let me post up a good picture of the finished panel so you can see it's look and it's strength and if anyone wants to duplicate it then I'll give some principal dimensions to make it easy.

Thanks,

James

Edited by - on

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 08:20:25

Thanks everyone. I was told it was a 1985 boat, but I'm not sure. I just got it (for free), and it is in very decent shape according to a friend who manages a repair shop in a marina and is a sailer himself. It just needs a lot of interior work like new cushions, and probably a rewiring job, but I am up to the challenge. At least it looks like I can sail it in the summer and work on it during the winter. Again thanks and keep the suggestions, encouragements etc. coming.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 10:13:58

Jan,
If you can provide us the serial number of the boat we can tell you the year. It should be on the title or scratched into the boat just below the transom rub rail on the starboard side.

Edited by - on

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 18:17:49

Thanks Joe. There is a plate near the tiller and it has the serial number 1242 on it. The boat is currently more than an hour from my home (Virginia Beach) and I am trying to get it ready to motor over (to Yorktown).

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 19:21:26

Jan,

Hull 1242 is most likely a 1979 model.

By the way, is the Yorktown Pub still open?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 20:26:02

You should contact the C25 Tech Editor. The table might have Mainsheet potential.

Edited by - on

TractorJohn
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 22:25:19

James, these pics may give you some ideas if your still in the design stage

I reused just about everything I could, I shortened the original about 18 inches because its just way in the way otherwise.

Before I finalized how deep the storage would be, I decided what I wanted to store.

that black strap at the top is a piece of heavy duty velcro about 2 inches by 6 inches. I experimented with latches and slide bolts and opted for velcro. Velcro doesn't rattle doesn't need to be aligned and allows me to over load the storage when I'm in a big rush to secure the cabin.

Even though it sticks out about 6-8 inches it is not in the way at all

I built the entire unit in the shop and then bolted it to the bulkhead with four bolts, the swinging leg is secured with a little velcro type button, this pic should help

most of the time I keep the table like this. I lowered the table about 1-2 inches from the factory set up. I decided the table height by sitting in boat playing cards, eating and drinking.
Hope this gives someone some ideas
TJ

Edited by - on

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2009 : 12:47:58

Thanks Tom, ... a 1979 eh? I was suspecting something like this when someone else on this forum wondered if the still made L layouts so late in the process. Oh well, it is still a good boat. Again any photos (like above) of an L-layout would be appreciated, so I can try to restore the boat to its old glory.
Tom, the Yorktown Pub is still there. Not sure when you were there last, but Isabel tried to destroy is, but to no avail. It is still there. It got Nicks and now the there is a completely new town on the river front and a great place to dock your boat.

Edited by - on

jebrant
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2010 : 09:57:58

Okay all, here are the uploaded photos of the table and a few of the boat.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jebrant/

The picture below shows when I added all the hardware just prior to test fitting it at the boat. We were able to use the table to serve hot chocolate and in general I was very pleased.
This assembly you see weighed in at exactly 13.3 pounds on the scale. Just the two-leaf piece of the original table and joining hinge with the leg and all other hardware removed weighed in at just over 23 pounds! I estimate the full table assembly to be between 27-30 lbs.

After discussion with the wife we decided that this sized table was actually plenty for what we wanted in the boat, meaning that we didn't need the second leaf. This single leaf piece is more stable, much lighter and you can move by it toward the front of the boat.
So I decided to take the hinge out of the folding leg and join the two pieces together. Then I cut down the hinge from the center leg and used it to attach the newly joined leg to my table in the center.
It looks better and folds up nicely.

I have figured out how I will secure the table attachment to the bulkhead with a hinged piece of wood to lock it in place. I am devising something similar for the fold out leg as well so when that is complete I'll post the pics.

Edited by - jebrant on 01/01/2010 11:09:16

jebrant
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2010 : 10:13:55

John, that is very creative and looks great. I will take some inspiration from it as I start to add more things to the interior. My only constraint is maximizing people space.
I have so far tried to maximize room/space since I have kind of a large family.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TractorJohn
 James, these pics may give you some ideas if your still in the design stage
I reused just about everything I could, I shortened the original about 18 inches because its just way in the way otherwise.

Before I finalized how deep the storage would be, I decided what I wanted to store.

that black strap at the top is a piece of heavy duty velcro about 2 inches by 6 inches. I experimented with latches and slide bolts and opted for velcro. Velcro doesn't rattle doesn't need to be aligned and allows me to over load the storage when I'm in a big rush to secure the cabin.

Even though it sticks out about 6-8 inches it is not in the way at all

I built the entire unit in the shop and then bolted it to the bulkhead with four bolts, the swinging leg is secured with a little velcro type button, this pic should help

most of the time I keep the table like this. I lowered the table about 1-2 inches from the factory set up. I decided the table height by sitting in boat playing cards, eating and drinking.
Hope this gives someone some ideas
TJ
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2010 : 11:21:51

James, I like the bracing bars for the pop top, I'm guessing there are two of them. These might let you sail with the pop top open partially without removing the Vang or raising it without having to remove the Vang and hook the top to the mast. Quicker,Faster and easier.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2010 : 13:03:09

James, I sent you an email through the forum when you first posted. That feature may not be working. I am the new C25 tech editor and I would like to correspond with you about your project with a view towards possibly publishing your results in the Mainsheet. There is a lot of interest in this type of project. May email is: heidenzell@sbcglobal.net Hope to see your results. Paul Zell S/V Sparky

Edited by - on

jebrant
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2010 : 18:17:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 James, I like the bracing bars for the pop top, I'm guessing there are two of them. These might let you sail with the pop top open partially without removing the Vang or raising it without having to remove the Vang and hook the top to the mast. Quicker,Faster and easier.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah they work great. The previous owner made them and I liked them a lot. I can sail the boat fine with them on and they clear about 6'4" in the cabin, just enough to stand up in and see out. I usually take down the vang when I'm using them since it will bind a little if I throw the boom out but works fine close to the wind. They're pretty sturdy though and makes sailing the lake in summer quite nice or moving down below easy.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2010 : 19:04:21

Just remember that on a relatively calm inland lake, the pop top up probably won't ever be a problem. If you trailer the boat to bigger water, the top should be down and secure while underway.

Edited by - on

andypavo
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2010 : 21:34:19

I am relieved to know that I am not the only person that didn't know how old there boat was until coming here. The guy who sold me hull #2122 said it was an 86. Whatever

Edited by - on

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