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No such thing as a dumb question; right?

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dflynnatc
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Initially Posted - 06/15/2010 : 17:36:39

That being said (subject), and reading previous posting pretty well completed, my question is..... Did the Early C25 come with a Bilge Pump? And if so, where was it? Because as I see it, I don't have a "bilge" per se.... I have multiple bilges(?)/compartments

My boat came with no bilge pump. No trace of where it would have been, and no discharge hose that I can discern. No port side cock pit manual pump.

Am I just missing it? Where would it have been, should I put one in?

Ok, may be it is a dumb question... but I'm seeking education.

Thanks

df

Dennis Flynn
1979 C-25 SR/SK
Hull 1042
Rock Hall,MD
Via
Skippack, PA

Edited by - dflynnatc on 06/15/2010 17:37:32

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2010 : 18:24:22

Not a dumb question, however, I cannot answer it. All I can tell you is that my 1977 has a manual bilge pump located on the port side of the cockpit footwell. There is a little white cover that you remove, insert a handle and pump with a forward and aft motion.
I have a through hull in the transom where the water discharges.
Probably didn't help you much.
Dan

Edited by - on

cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2010 : 18:45:36

My ('83 FK) access to the bilge is through the floor of the main cabin. If you have a rug, lift it up and you should see the access hatches. My manual bilge pump is in the port side locker. Where the handle to this pump is i have no idea. I have an electric pump that is installed in the bilge. My back up is a large bucket and a kayak. If anybody knows how to get a replacement pump handle, please let me know, although it may be cheaper to get a second bucket :).

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 06/15/2010 : 18:47:35

Bilge pumps were optional. My 78 never had one until I installed one this past year. It lasted 31 years without one so maybe I'm just nervous.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 06/15/2010 : 18:59:35

Not to hijack, but the handle is a short, tubular handle that slides over the actuator. I would guess that it is about 1/2" diameter and maybe 8" long. You hope to never need a bilge pump, but that doesn't make it any less important. An electric is nice, but a manual should be considered mandatory; I have both and am thinking of a second electric and/or a backup manual.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 06/15/2010 : 19:36:08

MANUAL BILGE PUMP
From the owner's manual, if you had a bilge pump:

The manual bilge pump is located in the port cockpit locker. The handle is stored in a clip fitting just above the pump inside the locker. Insert the handle through the water-tight fitting in the cockpit to operate the pump.

The pump pick-up is in the keel stub under the main cabin sole. The pump hoses are 1" I.D.

Our bilge pump handle was stored in one of the galley drawers, along with the keel winch handle, when we bought our boat. I'll have to check and see if the "clip fitting just above the pump" is still there.

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/15/2010 19:41:13

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/15/2010 : 20:25:33

When we bought our C-250, the PO told me that a rather large wooden dowel looking thing was the bilge pump handle, and I didn't question him. After we got it home, I took at look at our manual pump (located on the port side aft in the cockpit which isn't much help to you), and could not figure out how that piece of wood was supposed engage the pump. After casting about, I figured out that the dowel was actually the hanger for the wet locker, and there was no pump handle at all.

I figured out that a 1/2" piece of copper pipe fit perfectly in the pump, so I epoxied a dowel inside it, and turned a handle for it on my lathe. I've never had to use it, but I have tested it by filling my bilge with water & pumping it out.

Perhaps you could make something similar for yours?

Edited by - on

dflynnatc
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 04:50:17

For clarity... the self bailing cockpit is a separate system.... not a replacement for the manual bilge? Yes?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 MANUAL BILGE PUMP

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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dflynnatc
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 04:53:15

I'll have to check this weekend, but pretty confident that I don't have any cabin floor hatches/plates. I like the kayak/bucket however. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cks
 My ('83 FK) access to the bilge is through the floor of the main cabin. If you have a rug, lift it up and you should see the access hatches. My manual bilge pump is in the port side locker. Where the handle to this pump is i have no idea. I have an electric pump that is installed in the bilge. My back up is a large bucket and a kayak. If anybody knows how to get a replacement pump handle, please let me know, although it may be cheaper to get a second bucket :).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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Prospector
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Canada
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 05:15:13

It is difficult to bail with a kayak, they hold a lot of water, but are a real PITA to pass up the companionway steps ;)

Once you find your bilge inspection plates (they are there, I'll guarantee it) take the aft plate out, put it on a chopsaw and cut it in half so you have a forward piece and an aft piece then put a piece of piano hinge on it. Now the bilge can be opened easily for inspection without having to mess with screws.

We did this to ours at teh start of last season and never had it pop open. I cut it so that three of the screws are in the forward section. If you need to quickly unplug a pump intake or check if you are taking on water, you won't have time to mess with those screws.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 05:22:37

No such thing as a Dumb question. Nothing wrong with adding a bilge pump, I added three on one boat I had. It was sweet. We had one that was so strong, we would launch with the plug out and used it as a shower.

I don't think you need one, but then we have one poster that will probably never have another boat without one.. something about manual pumping for their lives for 4 hours... kinda lives in you memory ...

ANyhoo.... yepper, get you one.. It is on my list, but my list is Long....

Kinda depends on where you sail.. I usta always sail in sand, but now we have rock outcroppings that could hurt.. and the latest I've found, Angle Iron sticking up out of the sand, as markers for the BIG houseboats so they can power up on the beach in just the right place.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 05:54:58

<< the bilge can be opened easily for inspection without having to mess with screws. >>

Hey.. now that's a good idea. Way to go Prospector.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 06:32:42

Having been in the Training and Development business for a number of years, I can attest that there certainly is such a thing as a dumb question

.

This is not one of them.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 07:26:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Having been in the Training and Development business for a number of years, I can attest that there certainly is such a thing as a dumb question<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hah! So true! And I agree this isn't one.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 07:41:59

Dennis--what interior do you have? The bilge under the "dinette" interior is accessed from the tops of the two dinette seats, which have fiberboard covers. The keel bolts (for the fin keel) and bilge pump hose are visible there, along with a couple of storage compartments. It seems like every C-25 I've seen had a manual bilge pump mounted inside the port cockpit seat, with an opening for the handle in the side of the seat as described by others here. The discharge is through the port side of the transom.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/16/2010 07:50:36

dflynnatc
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 08:14:40

Now we're getting somewhere....in my original post,I said I do have compartments (such as under the seats) but not down below the floor.... i.e. that run at the lowest part of the boat, and along the length of the boat as would be in a powerboat. Therefore, a bilge pump in the port settee compartment wouldn't help me as it appears to be a sealed compartment- isn't it? Therefore if water was entering there, great, bilge would help, but if not... it wouldn't be of that much help unless it rose above the compartment wall.

Re: Cockpit locker, seems all I have is the outboard controls, vent hoses (and my previously discussed gas can) BUT will do a better examination - but there is none that I can recall, and I have looked which prompted this post.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Dennis--what interior do you have? The bilge under the "dinette" interior is accessed from the tops of the two dinette seats, which have fiberboard covers....It seems like every C-25 I've seen had a manual bilge pump mounted inside the port cockpit seat, with an opening for the handle in the side of the seat as described by others here. The discharge is through the port side of the transom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Justincase
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 08:16:01

Dennis, if your boat is like mine, which I suspect it is. There is no access to the compartments between the hull and liner.

Here is the link to my blog http://www.sailblogs.com/member/kiliki/
I found 2" of water in all of the compartments.

To access all of the compartments You will need holes
from front to back

in the head area just infront of the compression post
just aft of the 1" step to the head in the walk way
under the dinette
in the walkway just sarboard of the dinette
just starboard and forward a bit of the stairs
in the middle of the gally floor.

I used a 2" hole saw so I could get a vacuum hone in to suck out the water then made plastic covers.
Let me know if you need any more detail

Edited by - on

dflynnatc
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 08:51:53

Super... that makes sense to me now. Your pictures are more inline with what I see in the cabin.

Question 1 : how did you know you had water in there?
Question 2 : Were these just inspection hole?
Question 3: Did you install a bilge pump? if so, where did you place it?

Thanks

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Justincase
 Dennis, if your boat is like mine, which I suspect it is. There is no access to the compartments between the hull and liner.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

dflynnatc
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 08:55:14

Thank you; that is reassuring. You guys have been great to the newbies (me being one of them).
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Having been in the Training and Development business for a number of years, I can attest that there certainly is such a thing as a dumb question

.

This is not one of them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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Justincase
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 09:06:47

1) The squish in the floor as I walked in a few spots. Plus I kept mopping up water under the dineete seat even though we were in a dry spell.
2) inspection/pumpout holes i made them big enough to get a mirror in there so i could look to see where the next stringer was so i didn't drill any more holes than i needed.
3) no i did not put a bilge in any of them, once they were all dry any water/condensation that ran down the hull between the liner was mopped up with a sham-wow (shameless plug!haha)

I have a manual pimp that is attached on the inside of the port dumpster. the hose snakes under the gally cupboards and ends up under the aft port dinette seat. I have made the hose long enough to flip onto the cabin sole. I have 1 electric bilge pump under the rear quarter berth,since this is where my knot meter is (just incase there is a leak and im not there). I do plan on mounting 1 more electric under the forward berth (where my head through hull is), and connecting all of them to an alarm.
Cheers

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 09:15:29

You may want to buy/borrow an electric pump to suck out the water that is in the bilge now. They are not expensive and are available in 110 AC or 12v DC. Then sponge out the remaining bits of water and leave the boat open to the summer heat to thoroughly dry out. Be sure to check the area under the v-berth and under the galley too. THen see if you have any new water coming in.

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Justincase
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 09:24:40

I found a wet dry vac worked the best (I tried a small 12v pump too)

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 10:07:56

Thanks justin for th einfo - I never thought about the Dinette model having a different floor pan, but it really makes sense!

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 10:30:36

If you have an original pump it will be mounted in the port side sail locker on a 79. You'll see a big green (almost garden style) hose running through there. It drains aft out a hole in the transom. On the front face of this locker you would see a rectangular plastic cover (it would be behind your legs if you are sitting on port) pull off the cover, it pulls straight out. The aforementioned pipe fits into that.

If you didn't see a hose, a pump mounted in the pit, or a discharge hole you probably don't have one.

You should have 2 or 3 ways of dewatering your boat. Most have an electric bilge pump - 300-800 gallons per hour, the manual pump (whale is a brand on the market that comes to mind) and a bucket or manual pump and bucket.

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 10:32:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Having been in the Training and Development business for a number of years, I can attest that there certainly is such a thing as a dumb question

.

This is not one of them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I thought there weren't any dumb questions, just dumb askers.

Edited by - on

dflynnatc
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Response Posted - 06/16/2010 : 11:27:51

Got the last two: but want to deal with the first. Again, I will do closer inspection for remnants of Manual BP, but no obvious signs seen to this point - certainly nothing in cockpit other then OB controls.

Question: Assuming I am not drilling holes into the sole of the cabin, and I am only putting in one bilge pump (phase one) ; where would you install, and discharge?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
You should have 2 or 3 ways of dewatering your boat. Most have an electric bilge pump - 300-800 gallons per hour, the manual pump (whale is a brand on the market that comes to mind) and a bucket or manual pump and bucket.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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