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Newby question - is the C25 a good 1st boat?

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Slingerland
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USA
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Initially Posted - 08/04/2010 : 10:27:13

Hello, all!

My two sons (ages 19 and 14) are interested in boating, and specifically sailing. When I was young, I was also very interested in boating, but didn't have the opportunity. A local marina and club offers saling lessons, and we're looking at different used boats.

I'm seriously looking at a Catalina 25. It's a good price, trailer included, and the current owner is an engineer who has upgraded a lot of the electrical systems (solar charger, shore power, etc.) but it's also a big (to me) boat.

There are less expensive smaller boats around, but all of them were built by companies that are out of business (O'Day, South Coast, etc.) I would hate to put out some money, then a year from now realize the boat I bought is too limited. Or be unable to buy a replacement part.

The boat would be used on a local lake, and I mostly envision going out on the water for a day and coming back in during the evening. This C25 has a head and holding tank, which a lot of the smaller ones do not.

So my question: is the Catalina 25 a good starter boat?

Thank you for your patience!

Howard Warren
Little Rock, AR
1979 C-25 #1435, "Novia"

Edited by - on

mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 10:45:15

I would start with a Catalina 22 for a starter boat, which is what I started on, as many others on the forum did, it does offer similar amenities as the 25, except for headroom, but is much lighter, more forgiving, and easier to handle for novices. You can move on to a larger boat in a few years (Threefootitis) after gaining some experience if you choose.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:04:03

Yes - it is an excellent first boat; described by many here as forgiving and extremely easy to sail.

I wouldn't get too caught up with a particular boat having a manufacturer still in existence, but instead put some weight into what a surveyor says. They can point out issues you never would think about, save you money on the sale and in the long run by telling you to run away quickly.

Replacement parts exist for many boats out of production. Even with Catalina's of this age, most parts are offered by non OEM companies (CD for example).

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:13:17

Do you envision launching and retrieving the boat for each of these days on the water ("trailer sailing")? If so, most (maybe not all) participants here will agree that the C-25 takes too much time and effort to set up and take down to make it a pleasurable day. In contrast, the C-22 is a simple, one-man operation. The C-25 is a transportable boat, but not really a trailer-sailer.

If you plan to keep it in a marina, then the C-25 is manageable with that crew of yours, especially after some lessons. It'd be ideal if you could get some instruction on your own boat--rigging, sailing, docking, etc.

Parts availability is a consideration, but even parts for older Catalinas are primarily available from a third-party outfit, [url="http://catalinadirect.com/"]Catalina Direct[/url]. O'Day has (or had) a similar supplier in MA--a guy who worked many years for O'Day. And most of the rigging components and systems are generic on all of these boats.

And I second the importance of a pre-purchase professional survey, with you present--the best $350 or so you'll spend on the boat. It gives you a lot of information, can be used to negotiate the price, and may be required by your insurance company anyway.

Good luck in your quest, and keep bringing your questions!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/04/2010 11:18:16

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:13:22

I agree with mlg3733. A Catalina 25 is a lot of boat for a beginner. Start with the Catalina 22. The C-22 also has room for a portapotty, is a good lake sailor, is fun for overnighting if you want to, and almost everything about it is easier and less expensive to maintain than a C-25. I own both and love them both, but I'm glad I started with a C-22. One of the benefits of starting with the C-22 is that the cockpit layout is virtually the same as the C-25, so moving up is that much easier.
The C-22 is easier to trailer, quicker to set up/take down, and doesn't require as large a tow vehicle.

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:18:00

Thanks everybody!

Whatever boat I purchase, I intend to rent a slip during spring through fall and not trailer it. The marina rents its parking lot during the winter for storage out of water (grin).

Of the boats available locally, there are no Catalinas other than the C25. And the difference between a real head and a port-potty is important to my wife. And also, the C25 is only about $800 higher than the O'Day 222 and the C25 has the comforts plus a new 9.9 outboard.

So... difficult choice. The C25 owner is willing to take me aound the lake and give me some hands-on time.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:26:11

What's the year, keel (fin/swing/wing), rig (standard or tall), jib handling (roller furler or hanks), price... and where will you be sailing? Not that we're nosy or anything...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/04/2010 11:26:53

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:31:28

If you plan on trailering often then the 22 might be a better bet for you. I started with the 25 and didn't really know how to sail. I never thought it to be to big. That was 3 years ago and I still love the boat but It is kept in a marina. If trailering really isn't in the picture then I would say go for the 25. If you can find a 22, get on it and see the differences between them. Your decision but don't ever think the 25 its too big. For the wife having a partition for the head Is very important. In the 22, well she will be out there!

Edited by - islander on 08/04/2010 11:34:22

Slingerland
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:32:26

The Catalina is a 1980, swing keel. Standard height rig, hanks (I think), 9.9 HP Nissan outboard w/ battery charger. It is currently on Lake Catherine outside Hot Springs, Arkansas. Price is $5k, trailer included.

Closest competitor is a O'Day 222, also swing keel with standard height rig. It's price is $3500, but the owner has already told me he thinks the outboard motor is ready to give up.

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:33:55

We concluded the purchase of a Catalina 22 on the water. As we were motoring back to the dock I noticed a C25, then a C27, then a C30 and I said "we've got to get a bigger boat!" Two teenage kids and a wife? Go for the C25. It's much more stable than the 22.

Edited by - OJ on 08/04/2010 11:41:41

islander
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:38:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Not that we're nosy or anything... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nor do we mind spending YOUR money!

Edited by - on

Slingerland
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:50:41

Thinking about my "crew", one thing that is rather important to me is the ability for my wife and I to handle the boat by ourselves. In other words, she'll handle the tiller and make me do everything else (grin). It's important to me to be able to sail WITHOUT the kids as well as with.

I intend to put all four of us into the local sailing school immediately.

Edited by - on

jerlim
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:51:54

The short answer to your question is a YES...especially if you are keeping her in the water...go for the 25...while its possible to argue that the C22 is a better 'starter' boat, you (and likely your sons...) will quickly outgrow a 22...also go for a survey...let us know what you decide

Edited by - jerlim on 08/04/2010 11:53:08

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:52:07

I would start much smaller. A boat that is light and easily capsizable will make your sons much better sailors, will be easier to launch and retrieve, will be more fun, and will be sailed more often. Once they've really learned how to sail, then they (and you) can move up to a keelboat.

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OJ
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 12:00:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Even Chance
 . . . A boat that is light and easily capsizable will make your sons much better sailors . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Excellent point - and the sailing instructor may have just the thing.

You will need to respect the weight, power and momentum of the C25.

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Slingerland
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 12:05:31

FYI, I've called all the marine surveyors in the area... none of them will inspect a sailboat. They all claim the inspection is too expensive for the average sailboat owner to pay. Sigh...

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islander
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 12:53:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would start much smaller. A boat that is light and easily capsizable will make your sons much better sailors<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I can understand this kind if thinking but what I do know is If in the beginning had I gone this route, Capsized the boat and threw my wife in the drink we would be bowling now.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 13:16:26

Howard, I can see how the size might intimidate you but there is really not a lot of difference between sailing a 22 vs a 25. If you can sail one, you can sail the other. Take some classes or even see if you can get the current owner to take you out several time till you feel comfortable. Its a great family boat. I must say my first boat was a C22 and I loved it. It was keep in dry storage and it was put in the water for me as part of my storage fee. I will have to agree with others that taking the boat out of the water and lowering mast is much simpler with a 22. And I would not want to trailer a 25 either. I am fortunate PiSeas II is in a slip all year round.
But the 25 has so much more and a 22. If you really get into sailing and enjoy the water, go for it. Once you overcome that fear and feel like you have control, sailing is the best feeling in the world, regardless of size. Last weekend I was out in the Pacific and saw 2 blue whales, one was breaching. Even though I have seen that before, that sight is inspirational every time.
It may take time, however, to get used to docking. That's another story! Keep your questions coming.
Steve A

Edited by - on

pfduffy
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 14:02:25

To answer the shorthanded sailing question, you can very easily sail a C-25 with 2 people. I have very little experience, don't have the boat properly set up for single handing and I am able to sail it with only my 9 year old as crew. I love my C-25 and I think it would be a fine first boat.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 14:27:06

If you can't find a surveyor, at a minimum get a copy of Casey's "[url="http://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Aging-Sailboat-Don-Casey/dp/0070133948"]Inspecting the aging sailboat[/url]", and read it twice before you do your inspection.

I think the C-25 would be a fine starting boat, but I had a number of years of sailing experience before we bought our C-250, so I may be not remembering the trials I went through to get there. I started on Sunfish & Dolphins, graduated to Hobie Cats, bought my first catamaran when I was in my late 20's early 30's (I think?), eventually moved up to a San Juan 21 which was a great day sailor, but didn't have the amenities (head/galley) that we wanted, so we sold it and bought the C-250. Your sons would probably have a blast on a smaller boat like a Laser, Hobie, etc. for a while, and I agree it'll make them better sailors since there's direct correlation between your actions and how much time you spend swimming. Not so on a keel boat. Learning to sail a keel boat well is a different experience from learning to sail a dinghy or cat, but the latter translates easily to the former, not so much the other direction.

Edited by - delliottg on 08/04/2010 15:19:23

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 15:09:28

One difference to be aware of, speaking of the C-25 and the O'Day 222... The C-25 swing keel is a 1500 lb. hunk of cast iron that is the ballast for the boat. The O'Day's centerboard is fiberglass, and the ballast, if I remember correctly, is in a short keel stub that the centerboard raises into.

Thus, maintenance of the C-25 swing keel lifting cable is more critical, as a sudden free-fall can break the forward wall of the trunk and sink the boat. Owners here report that it's easy to do, and Catalina Direct sells [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?category=108"]everything you need[/url]. The winch also needs to be in good operating condition.

Ask your seller about when he's replaced the keel cable. It can go for a few (?) years in fresh water--if it's been over five years, I'd put it at the top of the list.

A few other maintenance/upgrade issues we can discuss in the future include the standing rigging (stays and shrouds), spreader sockets, thru-hulls, halyards... There's a list for every boat--the bigger the boat, the longer and more expensive the list!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/04/2010 15:12:03

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 15:09:50

For what it's worth . . .

1. The 25 will do fine -- managable, stable -- but will require initial effort to master the boat but more importantly sailing.
2. I owuld hope you can find a surveyor. Ask around and their is a registry of marine surveyors. You may find that when you talk to one they will in fact be happy to work for you.
3. If you can get your sons into a sailing program now. If they learn on lasers, 420's or other "dingy" boats taht are raced they will gain vastly.
4. Talk to local C25 owners and see if you can hitch a ride and se how the boat sails -- how it feels, etc
5. Don't be shy -- ask questions -- and hopefully, welcome to the C25 family!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 15:20:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 FYI, I've called all the marine surveyors in the area... none of them will inspect a sailboat. They all claim the inspection is too expensive for the average sailboat owner to pay.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Have you called [url="http://www.marinesurveyor.com/linck/index2.html"]John Linck[/url] in Little Rock? How much is too much? Doesn't anybody know of anybody...?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/04/2010 15:21:44

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 15:26:04

Lake Catherine looks a little "snug" for a boat like that...

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 16:21:59

I think the C-25, with a few caveats would be fine as a first boat. It is easier to learn in a small boat, but your lessons should handle that. Bigger and heavier boats respond more slowly, so it is more difficult to feel the response to a change, but it really isn't that big of a deal. You've already established that you don't intend to trailer sail, so I would suggest going for it at that price if it is in decent condition. I know one person who went from sailing Sunfish in his teens to a C-30 after not sailing for a decade. If you get a swinger, the keel maintenance is neither difficult nor expensive, but it is critical. I don't want to overwhelm and scare you, so we can answer questions about the annual care and feeding of the swinger if you get it.

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 16:31:17

Thanks everybody! To respond to a few posts:

My wife has reminded me that she does not like to ride in roller coasters... or roller boats... and the more stable the ride, the more likely she is to get in it again. So while the thought of watching my kids flip a boat over is humorous, I also want to plan a few romantic cruises with my wife. And let's be honest, a head is more romantic than a porta-pottie.

The initial sailing class will be for all four of us, with a Hunter 26' boat. It is the ASA certified course 101; the instructor only takes 4 at a time, so we'll have plenty of attention. He's a friendly guy, seems to enjoy talking about sailing, so it should be a good class.

Next spring the local sailing club holds more advanced sailing lessons on smaller craft. If my kids are still interested, I'll enroll them.

Dave, I did call John Linck, and he is not inspecting sailboats. He did not refer me to anybody, with the price as the reason.

Thanks again everybody!

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