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Replacing deck organizer sheaves

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trptelf
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USA
113 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/09/2010 : 21:12:26

We have two Garhauer deck organizers each with two sheaves. After removing the bolt and washer from inside the cabin, we were unable to remove the screw from the deck to replace the sheaves. The screws turn freely, but do not back out. We tried applying pressure from underneath with no success. It appears the top plate of the deck organizers needs to be removed, or perhaps the entire deck organizer, but they appear to be attached to the deck with adhesive and we are hesitant to force the plates up for fear of deck damage. Can anyone guide us in the appropriate way to get in there to replace the sheaves? Your help is greatly appreciated.

Bill and Erin
Formerly of Cat25 WK/TR
and Cat25 FK/SR

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 05:03:30

Excellent point about preventing damage to the deck. Can someone apply downward pressure on the organizer plate while a second person uses a hammer to gently tap upward on the stud from below?

Edited by - OJ on 11/10/2010 05:04:30

trptelf
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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 05:36:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Excellent point about preventing damage to the deck. Can someone apply downward pressure on the organizer plate while a second person uses a hammer to gently tap upward on the stud from below?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We tried this, screw won't budge vertically. There appears to be a nut or something right under the top plate keeping the screw from exiting the plate? Do we remove the top plate, or the entire organizer in order to replace the sheaves, or is there something easier that I just don't see yet? Here is the part I am referring to:
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1041&ParentCat=407

Edited by - on

OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 05:50:39

I don't remember the design on the bottom of these. If no one here can help - CD has a tech support line . . . Tuesday through Friday.

Edited by - OJ on 11/10/2010 05:56:14

dmpilc
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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 07:28:05

I've got a set to be installed on our boat. The organizer housing is one piece and the sheaves slide in or out from the sides. Ours came with one nut for each of the two screws, no washers, and the screws move easily up and down. They are not threaded through the housing. The two nuts should be the ones you removed from the underside of the deck. If they were left on the underside of the organizer housing, it would not sit flat on the deck. The screws should come right out. At a minimum, they should screw out if there is a nut bedded in there.

More than likely, there is caulk holding them in. Try applying upward pressure from inside with a small piece of wood while someone topside turns them with a screwdriver.

Sounds like you may have to carefully pry the organizer up from the deck. If you can't get the screws out, use a metal or hard plastic scraper and gently tap the blade in under the organizer housing all the way around the housing before you pry it up. Hopefully, they were not bedded with 5200.

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/10/2010 07:33:16

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 07:47:29

Agree with DavidP - a putty knife or box cutter should do the trick without damaging the deck, just go lightly. I have also heard of people sawing through caulk with fishing line, but I lack the patience for that sort of thing.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 08:48:29

Prospector has the right idea. I removed mine last year and had to gently drive a putty knife between the deck and organizer to remove them. The caulk was very old.....22 years or so, and dried hard.

Edited by - aeckhart on 11/10/2010 08:48:53

trptelf
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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 09:36:28

Thanks! We tried pushing up from the bottom, but no luck. The screw turns freely though, so if it is just caulking or adhesive causing the problem, would the screw turn freely?

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 09:50:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The screw turns freely though, so if it is just caulking or adhesive causing the problem, would the screw turn freely?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It would if the caulk is stuck to the screw between the deck and the roof liner. It may be spinning between the two layers. In that case the putty knife won't release it either.

Edited by - on

trptelf
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USA
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Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 10:03:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The screw turns freely though, so if it is just caulking or adhesive causing the problem, would the screw turn freely?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It would if the caulk is stuck to the screw between the deck and the roof liner. It may be spinning between the two layers. In that case the putty knife won't release it either.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

oh, I see. It appears I have a problem then...

Edited by - on

pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 10:29:28

Nice boat Bill, I replaced the sheaves on mine and had no problem that I can recall. The only adhesive that would cause deck damage would be 5200 and it is inconceivable that 5200 is involved so I think I would take a take a sheet of either wood or metal, (to spread the force), and use the edge of it as a fulcrum and pry the covers off the deck.

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 11:14:03

It may be that the inner bushing is corroded to the screw. Allowing the screw to spin within the sheave Put the nut on the screw a few threads only then tap with hammer. It may break the bond. If not the whole organizer will need to be removed. The putty knife to the side should do it.

Edited by - on

trptelf
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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 11:31:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mark Maxwell
 It may be that the inner bushing is corroded to the screw. Allowing the screw to spin within the sheave Put the nut on the screw a few threads only then tap with hammer. It may break the bond. If not the whole organizer will need to be removed. The putty knife to the side should do it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This sounds like what we are dealing with! Thanks everyone. I have a feeling we'll be using all of your suggestions in order to get our sheaves into this thing...

Edited by - on

OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 11:39:54

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Do you need to remove the turning block "housing" to replace the sheaves? Can't you just (somehow) force the the screws out and slide in the new sheaves with the housing still stuck to the deck?

Edited by - on

trptelf
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113 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 11:58:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Maybe I'm missing something here.

Do you need to remove the turning block "housing" to replace the sheaves? Can't you just (somehow) force the the screws out and slide in the new sheaves with the housing still stuck to the deck?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The screws are stuck. They turn, but don't move up or down. We tried hammering them from underneath, we tried unscrewing from the deck with a hand screw driver and also a power drill screwdriver. They will not budge up or down. If the bushing is corroded to the screw (which is possible as we have dealt with this on other parts on the boat) then I guess I don't know what else to do but hammer harder. Even when removing the entire plate, we still have a bushing corroded to a screw with little to no room to hacksaw them apart. So I suppose a new deck organizer might have to be purchased (or two rather). The current sheaves have disintegrated into almost nothing.

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 12:21:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by trptelf
 
If the bushing is corroded to the screw (which is possible as we have dealt with this on other parts on the boat) then I guess I don't know what else to do but hammer harder. .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ah yes.

Becareful if you remove the housing from the deck. I pulled off a small piece gel coat once while removing deck hardware.

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 12:29:04

You could grind the screw head down and punch/hammer from top down?

Edited by - on

trptelf
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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 14:24:02

This is what I just received from the maker Garhauer:

It sounds like the screws are frozen to the bushing. You can try removing
the whole unit and hammering the screws out. Most of the time the housing
will bend. We would recommend just replacing the complete unit.

I wish there was a cheaper way. We will still try all of your suggestions first. Thanks so very much!

Erin

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 14:24:21

If this were me, I would:

1. Try to break teh seal with a putty knife.
2. If the part lifted at all, I would inject some paint stripper into the space to try and get teh caulking to let go (Lee Valley Paint stripper will eat away 4200 quite nicely)
3. Give a squirt of WD-40 to teh bushings and have at 'em with the hammer again.

And if all that didn't work, buy a container of gelcoat from CD before taking a BFH to the part to get it out of the deck.

Edited by - on

trptelf
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113 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 14:35:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 If this were me, I would:

1. Try to break teh seal with a putty knife.
2. If the part lifted at all, I would inject some paint stripper into the space to try and get teh caulking to let go (Lee Valley Paint stripper will eat away 4200 quite nicely)
3. Give a squirt of WD-40 to teh bushings and have at 'em with the hammer again.

And if all that didn't work, buy a container of gelcoat from CD before taking a BFH to the part to get it out of the deck.

What kind of tool is that exactly?

Do I have one of those?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

trptelf
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Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 14:41:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by trptelf
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 If this were me, I would:

1. Try to break teh seal with a putty knife.
2. If the part lifted at all, I would inject some paint stripper into the space to try and get teh caulking to let go (Lee Valley Paint stripper will eat away 4200 quite nicely)
3. Give a squirt of WD-40 to teh bushings and have at 'em with the hammer again.

And if all that didn't work, buy a container of gelcoat from CD before taking a BFH to the part to get it out of the deck.

What kind of tool is that exactly?

Do I have one of those?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I looked it up, and yep, I've got one of those. hee hee

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 14:43:08

Try the WD-40 first, let it soak in overnight, with hammering the screw. It might break free.

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/10/2010 14:44:19

Prospector
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Canada
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Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 19:22:31

Just remember WD40 is oil based, you don't want it soaking into your fibreglass. So go lightly. If you can find another penetrating oil, even air tool oil or somethign that can be applied with precision from a dropper, you may be further ahead.

Or you can just use the WD-40 and be damned with what it will do to the Gelcoat.

Edited by - Prospector on 11/10/2010 19:25:19

trptelf
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Response Posted - 11/11/2010 : 04:25:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Just remember WD40 is oil based, you don't want it soaking into your fibreglass. So go lightly. If you can find another penetrating oil, even air tool oil or somethign that can be applied with precision from a dropper, you may be further ahead.

Or you can just use the WD-40 and be damned with what it will do to the Gelcoat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh, okay, will be heading out early this morning to clean up wd40. I didn't realize what it can do to gel coat. Thanks!

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 11/11/2010 : 09:03:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...and it is inconceivable that 5200 is involved...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I assume Frank has his tongue fully planted in his cheek as he says that. Some people think 5200 is the preeminent bedding compound. Then this happens, usually to a successive owner. As long as West Marine sells the stuff and says it's "good" for bedding deck hardware, people will use it.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/11/2010 09:06:39

GaryB
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Response Posted - 11/11/2010 : 22:24:55

Try PB Blaster but be careful to keep it off the gelcost.

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