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redeye
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3477 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/09/2011 : 12:07:56

And of course on a black night crossing we almost got run over. Big Power boat 90 degrees to our port, comes out of nowhere, powers down at the last second and powers up and crosses right in front of us.

Scared the hell out of GF. I was pretty flustered but thought he was just being an ass.

We were under power and red lights inside and nav lights running.

Typical. I need to keep scanning the horizon, but I think I'll add white blinkie bike lights to the standing rigging.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2011 : 12:09:39

I wouldn't add white lights. It would look like there was someone up ahead and he was already behind you. Green/red lights maybe, but definately not white.

Who was it that was going to rig a disco ball on their boat again??

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/09/2011 : 12:25:34

Yepper... still thinking about that disco ball design. The bike lights are so unusual, they blink up and down in a pattern and get your attention.

Red and Green Maybe...

I'm thinkin the only way to get their attention on this lake might be a Budweiser Sign in the window....

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2011 : 13:31:56

Get a million candle power flashlight and if you sense something or someone headed your way, light up your main sail. Close your eyes if you want to preserve your night vision.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 05/09/2011 : 14:02:07

When we were on G-bay, one of the power-cruisers invited me up into his bridge. it was really very nice, but the scary part was that from up there, my anchor light (at teh masthead) was at eye-level. There is no way that boat would see my running lights if it was up on plane. I know what Ray is talking about, wanting to be seen, and I know what you are saying (light up your mainsail) but I still get nervous when I'm out there at night and I hear an engine. Heaven help you if he is approaching from your lee side - then you won't hear him at all.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 05:07:43

I was under power, watching where I was going and did not hear or see him until he was on me. This Marina is closest to the Falcons Football Team Training Center and we have some aggressive folks in some big boats. Behavior like I've never seen before on the water. Bigger means they have the right of way and to some extent it is true. I just had no idea he was coming as I was intently looking where I was going.

Anyhoo... my lesson is scan the horizon. ( and keep the bushmaster with laser sight on hand ) Ummm I meant bright light...

I'm gonna add red and green blinkie's....

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 05:17:37

All it takes is a standard flashlight to light up the sails, makes your boat hard to miss. As to the million candle power lantern, if I had one I'd be more inclined to light up the powerboat with it!
BTW, Academy Sports has a Pelican flashlight, 3 c-cell, waterproof to 500 ft., with a belt clip, for $33.
Nice light, and very bright. If I didn't already have one like it, I would buy one.
Pic wouldn't import, here's the link for the light:
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_12113_-1?Ntt=flashlight&Ntk=All

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/10/2011 05:43:58

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 05:28:57

We were using a friends big power boat one time, and it would block your view in front of you until it planned out. It was incredible how much was obstructed for how long. Just like take off and climb in a small plane, blind dead ahead.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 06:00:37

Not that these yahoos probably even know (judging from that crossing), but on the water, blinking lights are nav-aids, not other vessels. If by chance he sees both red and green blinkers, he could decide they're channel markers and "aim down the middle." (Thinking about it... "Red Right Returning" translates to head-on collision.) Putting non-conforming lights on your boat or putting a beam in another skipper's face could make you responsible for whatever happens. Lighting up your sails, however, is OK...

So, let's say you see him at 200 yards, closing at 30, no change in bearing... Your sails are down... What then? Where was your air horn? (Five blasts.) Remember, you "came out of nowhere" to him, too.

BTW, in my book, being on plane in darkness on a lake with shore lights around it is recklessness that should be reportable to the authorities.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/10/2011 06:06:18

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 06:42:51

Thanks Dave, that is a good point about blinking lights being navigation lights. These digital bike lights are running up and down in a strange pattern and it really draws attention like nothing you have ever seen on the water.

The air horn is the right idea. I think I'll add a horn holder at the helm.

I have a hard time believing I came out of nowhere for him if he was looking forward. I was moving very slow, he should have easily seem me from a long way off in front of him if he was looking where he was going.

I've never seen anything like this on the Gulf Coast, but I've had, with witnesses, seen these big boats get upset when they had to change course to go behind me when I was daytime sailing and they were under power.

And ... yepper.. I'm gonna have a look at the disco ball design, yet again...

Edited by - on

redviking
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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 07:05:41

Technically, if you were under power you should have been running a steaming light. I would also look at the lights themselves. Some older boats have crappy running lights.

Also, many well found cruising vessels are equiped with a masthead flashing strobe. This is a distress signal. If I see you blinking like a disco, I'm gonna hail the Coasties and then alter course to investigate. Then I will not so politely inform you that unless you have John Travolta and Olivia Newton John aboard, that your light display is illegal.

How is it possible that he came out of nowhere? Were you keeping watch? Radar reflector? I would also recommend issuing a security call every so often on a night passage to make other aware that you are out there.

sten

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 07:09:50

Having been in a situation (which of us has not?) where a powerboat was acting inappropriately, these threads are a welcome reminder of how important it is to be both lit up correctly and to be constantly aware of others in the vacinity.

[url="http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/20/Child-dies-crash-SD-Bay-Xmas-parade/"]Even Pros make mistakes[/url]

Realistically, we have to accept the risk that when we are undersail, any powerboat nearby may not see us. So we need to be alert and have the equipment at hand to make us stand out. Of course, there is every chance that the powerboat helm will not be looking at our illuminated sails, or able to hear the Air Horn over the drone of their engines. And of course, if it is at the end of the day, then other factors may come into play such as how much partying was in progress earlier, both on our boat and theirs.

So I'm in the team that has the air horn handy, million candles nearby, all lights as appropriate, and if I have been partying, then I'm not going to be at the helm. And we're well insured!

Ok, let's go sailing!

Paul

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 07:15:06

Point taken Sten...

New nav lights, as of last year, and no steaming light so I was at fault. As well as not scanning the horizon.

Oh Well... no disco ball after all.

Thanks for the help all, always good to hear from calmer heads.

Edited by - redeye on 05/10/2011 07:20:29

PCP777
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 08:05:23

I'm so glad for these threads as they heighten my awareness of the dangers from power boats. Usually we don't have much fast moving traffic on the south side of our lake due to the long fetch and the resulting waves but about a month ago I was ghosting around with my wife under sail under glass like conditions and the bass boats and cruisers flying by were a bit scary, especially by the marina entrance. I kept a flashlight in my lap and turned on the cabin lights.

I think I'm going to get that Pelican Light today. As far as the horn, they probably won't hear you over their engine noise if the throttle is up but I have one in my coaming compartment anyways.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:23:54

On our little lake we rarely see lights other than the standard red/green and the white taillights. For those who sail in harbours, ocean ports, etc, do you just learn what the different lights mean on barges, tow vessels, and whatnot, or do you have a cheatsheet nearby? How do you keep track of them all?

Were I sailing outside my lake where I have marked all the beacons in my GPS, and know that only one "commercial" boat is out there (any you can hear teh calypso playing before you see the boat) I don't worry much about this stuff, but sometimes I hear what you guys deal with and think you must carry Chapman's on board or something.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:27:47

Well it didn't really scare me. I thought he was just being as ass, powering down straight at me and then driving around me in front of me, very controlled. He could have easily turned astern of me as he powered down. Me making 3 knots with my 1984 Johnson Sailmaster 6hp that I hafta keep slow cause the water pump is barely spitting..

Now my girlfriend has just emailed me a shot of her new summer haircut and I hafta respond.. That Scares me!!!

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:36:30

In case this point is useful to anyone... Your 225-degree steaming light, in addition to your 135-degree stern light, has the effect of giving you an all-around white light, which is required of any boat under power. If another boat can see both a colored light (112.5 deg.) and your white, he should interpret that as a powerboat--colored light only is sail (power off). White light only means he's approaching from behind you and must give way no matter who is what.

The big problem in my experience is shore lights. The lower the skipper is to the water or the higher the running lights, the worse it is. One prime argument against using a mast-head tri-color or the anchor light when under power is that it puts the light(s) up among the shore lights for many other skippers. I use the motorcyclist's approach--I assume nobody sees me until they prove otherwise.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/10/2011 09:47:30

redviking
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:49:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 One prime argument against using a mast-head tri-color or the anchor light when under power is that it puts the light(s) up among the shore lights for many other skippers. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Anchor lights should never be used while underway. Makes me confused 'cuz I just don't know if you are coming or going.

sten

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:56:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Anchor lights should never be used while underway. Makes me confused 'cuz I just don't know if you are coming or going.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've seen sailors use them in place of a stern and steaming lights. Technically, they're the same thing--a single white from any direction, aft of and above the colored lights. I agree it's a bad idea (except, I guess, in Kansas, where we've been told the convention is to turn on everything no matter what you're doing).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/10/2011 09:58:10

redviking
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 10:24:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Anchor lights should never be used while underway. Makes me confused 'cuz I just don't know if you are coming or going.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've seen sailors use them in place of a stern and steaming lights. Technically, they're the same thing--a single white from any direction, aft of and above the colored lights. I agree it's a bad idea (except, I guess, in Kansas, where we've been told the convention is to turn on everything no matter what you're doing).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Master Curmudgeon - with all due respect, technically they ARE NOT the same thing.

We were leaving Fernandina Beach FL a couple of years back at 02:00 to catch a favorable tide and assure a daylight entrance into the tricky St. Augustine inlet. As we were running out of the channel we saw what appeared to be a freighter inbound. We use one of these handy light identification sliderules - http://www.weems-plath.com/products/lightrule/

Guess what? The lights didn't match up to anything. Actually, it looked like the freighter was a mile long or more. Turns out there was a blessing of the fleet that day and a club had mustered about 35 sailboats to flaunt COLREGS with wanton abandon.

Some were running anchor lights, some no lights at all, and virtually not one steaming light nor tri-color. After I had hailed the freighter to inquire, he too voiced his concern as he had never seen anything like it. I asked the Commodore to answer up, but never got him. I know the Coasties were listening. Hope they scrambled and wrote 35 tickets.

Steamin lights typically illuminate part of the spreaders and are clearly distinguishable from a tri-color. Absent a tri-color, don't worry - I will still figure it out. Do NOT run the anchor light unless your hook is down - period.

Why is it that every so often, it feels like I'm on the Mac 26 forum?

sten

Edited by - redviking on 05/10/2011 10:27:06

redviking
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 10:30:50

I might add that if you run your anchor light while either at a dock or on a ball, you are not worthy. When coming into an unfamiliar harbor at night and I see that stuff, makes me just crazy.

sten

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 10:32:07

I hope to get the stick wired this weekend. Very excited about the new lights. Lotsa work and a long time coming but it sure feels good to see the fruits of my labor before it gets sunk...

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redviking
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 10:35:02

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GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 10:52:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 So, let's say you see him at 200 yards, closing at 30, no change in bearing... Your sails are down... What then?

Light 'em up!

BTW, in my book, being on plane in darkness on a lake with shore lights around it is recklessness that should be reportable to the authorities.

On Texas lakes it's legal to be on plane but it has to be at minimum planing speed (20 mph max)

That being said, there have been numerous accidents and fatalities on Lake Travis (and I'm sure others) from Fountains, Scarabs, idiots, etc...) running at high speed and hitting the Sometime Islands that become exposed when the lake is down.

I personally witnessed and immediately responded to an accident on Lake Conroe in which a guy that had just purchased a boat (the windshield was tinted darker than any I've ever seen and the driver was sitting down) was out running around at high speed doing donuts and ran right over the middle of another boat that was idling out from the marina. The driver of the boat that was hit had just moved to the back of the boat to take care of business. After the accident there was a perfect outline of the outdrive through the side of the boat, across the drivers seat and dashboard, and out the other side. There was a person sitting in the open bow area and another in the back facing side of the passenger seat. The boat went right between both people.

Amazingly everyone walked away but with some pretty bad cuts and bruises. Needless to say there were some shorts that needed to be washed! 
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 11:14:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 I hope to get the stick wired this weekend. Very excited about the new lights. Lotsa work and a long time coming but it sure feels good to see the fruits of my labor before it gets sunk...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think you also bought the Bebe anchor light - right?

We finally got ours running and it looks great. After sitting unlit for a couple years it warms the cockles in my heart to see it cheerily glowing away. Just one thing - before you mount it and wire it, put a piece of black electrical tape over the photo-eye, and then before you raise the mast make sure you remove it.

You will have to make sure the polarity on the wires is right or it won't light, and you will want to make sure it turns off when exposed to daylight, but unless you are working on the ground with a helper, you need a mighty long finger to cover that sensor. The alternative is to wire it at night and shine a light on it to test the photo eye, but I haven't tried that.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2011 : 11:51:02

Prospect... I got the one without the photo-eye. Lookin forward to finishing up that project.

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