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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2011 : 19:17:45

OK, [url="http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=Rule25"]Rule 25[/url], paragraph B describes the standard mast-head tri-color for sailboats not under power--two 112.5 colored segments and one 135 white segment. (Under power, you add the steaming light.) I'm not a fan, but it's logical.

Paragraph C describes an alternative I've never heard of, never seen, and can't find anybody selling--the over-under all-around red-green. It was never mentioned in my captain's license course, doesn't show up anywhere else I've looked at, and seems completely illogical to me.

I'm going to the USCG Regional Examination Center in Boston tomorrow to turn in all of my stuff for the OUPV license--maybe I'll talk to somebody I can ask about it. (...or maybe not.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/11/2011 19:25:51

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2011 : 19:39:07

There are a couple of boats in my marina that have the over/under all around red/green masthead lights. I was wondering how those were legal awhile back.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/11/2011 20:08:03

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2011 : 19:59:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
Hmmm.... yet another grey area that doesn't make any sense. According to Chapmans "sailboats should never display a white masthead light as this light is only shown by a vessel propelled by machinery."

But when you consult the interpreting running lights section - page 129 - it indicates none (masthead lights not used under sail alone.) But there is no mention of the steaming light when under power.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
OK, I'm at home with my Chapman's now. Let me take another shot at resolving your confusion.

The things that you quoted are on p. 126 and 127 of my book (66th Edition). They apply to boats under "sail alone."

On p. 124 Chapman's defines "Sailing Vessel" as "Any vessel propelled by sail, provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used. A sailboat or motorsailer using both sail and engine simultaneously is a power-driven vessel for purposes of the Rules of the Road."

If you look on p. 126 for power-driven vessel less than 12 M in length, you'll see a clear requirement that a masthead light is required in addition to the lights that would be used for sail alone.

So your claim that "there is no mention of the steaming light when under power" is itself misleading, because Chapman's specifically says to refer to the powerboat requirements for sailboats under power.

IMO the minimum requirements for sailboats and motorsailers are quite straightforward. The optional lights do get a bit more complicated. But I doubt that any additional optional lights would have made a difference in the near-miss described by the OP. I suspect the powerboat was just totally clueless about how helpless sailboats feel when being approached by a speeding powerboat, especially at night. He probably was thinking, "Why doesn't he gun his engine and get out of my way?" Then on the verge of a collision, "OK, I guess I'm just going to have to steer around him."

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/11/2011 20:01:41

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2011 : 03:50:26

Ok, you all convinced me... [url="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Chapman-Navigation-Rules-International-Inland/United-States-Coast-Guard-Staff/e/9781588163257"] is this the right book ? [/url]

I have a nook that always goes with us onboard, so I have notified the publisher that I would like it in Nook format

Paul

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2011 : 04:04:59

We have the [url="http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/COMDTINST_M16672_2D_NavRules_corrected_w_promulgation.pdf"]USCG Navigation Rules Publication[/url] aboard right now, delightful reading

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2011 : 05:16:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Ok, you all convinced me... [url="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Chapman-Navigation-Rules-International-Inland/United-States-Coast-Guard-Staff/e/9781588163257"] is this the right book ? [/url]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Actually, no. [url="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Chapman-Piloting-Seamanship-66th-Edition/Charles-B-Husick/e/9781588167446/?itm=1&USRI=chapman+piloting+%26+seamanship+66th+edition"]This book[/url] is the one everyone means when they refer to "Chapman". It's a much more comprehensive reference, and always heavily discounted. It's worth the extra money, but it is heavy enough to use as ballast.

It looks like [url="http://www.booku.com/Chapman-Piloting-Seamanship-66th-Edition/Charles-B-Husick/ebook_261521.htm"]this site[/url] has an EPUB version of Chapman, but at a heavy price premium. (I can't vouch for this website's quality - I just found it with a Google search.) EPUB is supported by Nook - if you have ever used Adobe Digital Editions to borrow ebooks from a library, you know the procedure for getting it into the Nook. (I had a Borders gift card, and used the same method to get Borders books to read on my Nook.) However, with the rich graphics available in the latest Chapman's, it is probably better to have the nice large hardcopy than a reduced size ebook version.

By the way, I had never been able to embed links into text before. Did you guys have to edit manually, or is there an icon that does that? When I click the link icon

it does not seem to do it.

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/12/2011 05:17:21

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2011 : 05:39:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 By the way, I had never been able to embed links into text before. Did you guys have to edit manually, or is there an icon that does that? When I click the link icon

it does not seem to do it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To embed a link, change the Format Mode to "Prompt", select

, then follow the instructions.

Edited by - dlucier on 05/12/2011 05:39:54

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2011 : 05:49:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 To embed a link, change the Format Mode to "Prompt", select

, then follow the instructions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[url="http://www.dgrz.com/gerard/GS.htm"]The old format-mode-to-prompt trick[/url], eh? Somehow I missed that one for a whole year!

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/12/2011 05:53:10

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2011 : 09:15:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 OK, [url="http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=Rule25"]Rule 25[/url], paragraph B describes the standard mast-head tri-color for sailboats not under power--two 112.5 colored segments and one 135 white segment. (Under power, you add the steaming light.) I'm not a fan, but it's logical.

Paragraph C describes an alternative I've never heard of, never seen, and can't find anybody selling--the over-under all-around red-green. It was never mentioned in my captain's license course, doesn't show up anywhere else I've looked at, and seems completely illogical to me.

I'm going to the USCG Regional Examination Center in Boston tomorrow to turn in all of my stuff for the OUPV license--maybe I'll talk to somebody I can ask about it. (...or maybe not.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Dave, I misread that one. SO, to review - while under power you can have; A. a tricolor and a steaming light, B. a Red light on top of a Green one at the masthead, C. run your anchorlight

and shut off your stern light, D. run your steaming light and your stern light. With your bow lights still running of course, unless you are running the tri?

So many choices. If I ran the world, here's what STENREGS would require. A tri-color, an anchorlight, bow, stern and steaming. Run the tri and the running when you are sailing at night, I know what that looks like. Flip on the steaming when under power. I know what that looks like.

If I see two whites, one really up there, and one down at waterline, I know what I am looking at. I am behind you and possibly overtaking. If I see red and green and your steaming light on and your the red/green of your tri, I know you and I are on a collision course. COLREGS smolregs, this is what most of the cruisers that have tri's do out here. I polled em just for kicks and giggles.

But - if I understand smolregs properly, Lighting the tri-color masthead light and the deck-mounted lights at the same time or when under power is not permitted. Geez louise, I have to know what a Trawler caught on underwater obstruction - underway looks like. Why do they have to lump us in with the stinkpotters?

Someone should make an inexpensive tri-anchorlight combo for the 23 foot and above cruiser.

sten

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