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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Is a 6hp motor enough?

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labsonboard
Deckhand

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Initially Posted - 06/02/2011 : 19:37:54

I'm buying a new motor mount for my '83 fin keel Catalina '25 and am thinking of using a Tohatsu 6hp motor instead of the Honda 8 I have. Of course there's no turning back since I'll have to go with either the two or four spring design. My Honda 8 is newer ('03?) with few hours and runs great. Switching to the 6 would require selling the Honda which is a hassle. I like the idea of a much lighter motor (less strain on the transom and easier to handle as well as better sailing performance) but I'd like opinions as to whether it can shove the boat around in all conditions. I sail on a large lake with significant wind and waves at times but I prefer to sail through storms rather than motor.

Am I nuts? Should I just stick with the Honda and avoid the trouble of selling it?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 20:01:11

A 6 with an XL shaft would be adequate, but I certainly wouldn't downsize a perfectly good motor and spend good money for really marginal benefits and not have that little extra push in reserve.

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labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 20:09:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 A 6 with an XL shaft would be adequate, but I certainly wouldn't downsize a perfectly good motor and spend good money for really marginal benefits and not have that little extra push in reserve.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for the response. I should mention the 8 weighs 101 lbs. and the 6 specs at 59 lbs. The Tohatsu came out with battery charging which got me thinking in this direction. I like the idea of using the smallest motor possible since I don't use it much. (I often sail off the anchor, all day, and on anchor in the evening.) But I'm leaning towards keeping the 8 rather then trying to sell it. I've also heard the one-cylinder 6 vibrates whereas the two-cylinder 8 runs smoother. Since half throttle on the 8 gets me easily up to hull speed I wondered if a 6 would be enough.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 20:12:44

Given that you already have a reliable engine made by a reliable company, I don't see any reason to downsize to the Tohatsu. That said, if the market's anything like it used to be for outboards, you shouldn't have any problems selling your Honda if you choose to do so. Plus Tohatsu makes a fine engine, we have their 9.8 and love it. When I bought it, I put my Johnson 8hp on sale for twice what I thought it might be worth expecting to be negotiated down, and sold it in a day on Craigslist at my full asking price.

Welcome to the board, you'll find lots of good advice here.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2011 : 21:16:45

I have a Yamaha 5HP 2 stroke....it's a great little motor, runs strong and is very lightweight. Starts on the first or second pull. Sips gas. I love it.

BUT

Yeah, there's always a but....it only get's me up to about 4.5 knots, wide open. For most of the time, this is just fine....but I did have one time I had to motor back across the lake because conditions were too strong for me to sail. With 25+mph winds and 3' chop with whitecaps, I was only making about 3.2 knots....enough for sure, it got me home.

I want something with a little more oompfh....like a 9.9 or even your Honda 8.

I'll trade ya...straight up. Since yours is a little newer and bigger, I'll pay shipping.

Edited by - Joe Diver on 06/02/2011 21:17:35

BernieM
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 06:18:34

I have a 6 hp yamaha 2 stroke kicker that I'm very happy with. It is able to get me up to 6 knots at full throttle, and doesn't seem to use much fuel. We don't usually get 25+ mph winds on my lake, so I can't speak to top speed against that kind of weather, but I've rarely, if ever, had an issue with being under powered. Don't get me wrong, I don't try to stop and start on a dime, so I take it real easy coming into the dock.

Edited by - on

labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 06:34:30

Thanks for letting me know what a 6hp motor will do with a C25 Bernie. I expected that it would move the boat well enough in most conditions.

Thanks for the welcome to the board delliottg. I was already on the board before and even paid up but there was a snafu somewhere and I have had to re-register. I do enjoy the effort people put in to helping others. I'm also on traveltalkonline board (same name) and it is amazing the advice that fellow sailors take the time to dish out. I found it extremely helpful on our recent Virgin Island charter.

Joe, I think I'll pass on your offer. I was looking at a 6hp, 4 stroke with charging feature if I do make the switch. If you do upgrade be careful of your mount. I've had two honda 8hp motors and the new one is even heavier. It was a huge pain to lift the motor (wife couldn't do it) and the mount was much too flimsy for a 101 lb. motor. There is no reason to get the 9.9 in my opinion. It's the same motor but with the 8 you will only use half throttle to cruise at hull speed anyway.

Edited by - on

calden
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 07:02:24

labs:

I just went through pondering the same question. My original 9.9 Evinrude was not behaving and I was looking at the age-old question of how much more money do I throw at this thing before I just buy a new motor. I was also looking at the Tohatsu/Nissan 6 HP with charging.

I sail on a very large inland mountain lake. We get storms that blow out of nowhere and come in fast, so I was wondering how much I need the 10 HP. I talked to the guy who runs a marina across the way from me. He's a good friend, has done work on my boat, and a stand up guy. He has been dealing with sailboats, powerboats, engines, all things marine, for most of his life. He felt that for the Catalina 25 you only need the 6 HP but for that huge blow event once every three years it might not be enough to get back down the lake from 5 miles away, and you might be stuck being blown to the other end for the night. Not being put in danger, but possibly not getting back home when you thought you would.

i was ready to go with the 6. We do not have tides or current, and even when there is a big storm the waves do not get that big. I was willing to take the risk, primarily because I liked the lighter weight and ease of lifting. I had even upgraded the motor mount from the original one-spring to a two-spring, but the big old Evinrude still needs some heft to get it up, and I want my wife to be able to easily deal with it if need be.

If I were sailing in Puget Sound or going out of Mission Bay to Catalina or in the Columbia River, I would definitely want the stronger engine.

In any case, my Evinrude was fixed and seems to be working fine now. If it goes south again, I'm getting the Tohatsu 6.

Carlos

Edited by - on

labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 07:11:28

Carlos,

Hello neighbor. We're a little the east of you in MT on Flathead Lake--a great sailing lake. Try it sometime. We are also close in boats--'83 FK TR #3436. Are you on Priest Lake?

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 07:37:52

No problem...if you change your mind....

I will upgrade my mount if I go with a bigger motor. I'll change the backing plates as well. One thing I really like about my Yammy is the ease of lifting it. Sitting sideways I can reach over with one hand and lift it or drop it....spring loaded mount works great.

Edited by - on

calden
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 14:12:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by labsonboard
 Carlos,

Hello neighbor. We're a little the east of you in MT on Flathead Lake--a great sailing lake. Try it sometime. We are also close in boats--'83 FK TR #3436. Are you on Priest Lake?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Very cool. I'm on Pend Oreille, south end, in Bayview. My boat came from Flathead last year. Used to be named "Kit & Kaboodle." I drove over to look at it and loved the lake. You guys are lucky there.

Carlos

Edited by - on

jrchase11
1st Mate

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35 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2011 : 10:07:50

I have the 6 tohatsu with alternator (60w 5amp). What are the specs on the 8 u have? The PO bought for same reason - less weight. I've been thinking of moving up. Hmmmm? Is yours electric start?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2011 : 11:11:59

The Tohatsu/Nissan motors are not available in 8 hp with XL shaft AND elec start. You have to go to 9.8 hp to get both, which is what I bought. The 8 and 9.8 are 2 cyl motors and weigh 90-93 lbs.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2011 : 11:49:54

Don't forget you need to back down to stop. Most motors can get the boat up to speed but stopping is another matter.

Edited by - on

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2011 : 14:31:02

I have an older 7.5 honda. Not too heavy and runs great. I waqs once told that by changing the cam I can make it a 10. I am going to check on that.

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wmuchmore
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2011 : 15:01:54

6 is enough for me. My Johnson 9.9 died, so my marina guy loaned me an old Mariner 6 on trial. It pushed the boat OK so I bought it. A plus is that the motor is light enough for me to take off myself if it needs repairs. If I have to buy a new motor someday I wouldn't hesitate to by 1 6 h.p.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2011 : 11:37:09

This is a recurring thread that drives me nuts. NO 6hp is not enough. I suppose it is if you never get "caught" in a storm or never have to try and rescue anyone when it is blowing 30 knots. I sail in a puddle and have done both of those things several times and 6hp would NOT have been enough. If your one of the guys that people seek out when someone is in trouble or want to be one of the people that ensures their boat can do everything it should be able to do in all conditions then you need an xl-shaft, electric start, 9.8-10 hp motor. Saving money on a motor is a mistake. We all go through times when our motor is not what we want it to be, usually when you buy an ill kept boat, but when you are making the decision to repower your boat... do the right thing.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2011 : 12:11:29

I agree the Tohatsu 6 will have less oomph for stopping and maneuvering around a dock than the Honda 8, because of the Honda's high-thrust set-up and forward exhaust venting. Otherwise, IMHO, an XLS 6 is enough--it'll just require 3/4 throttle for best cruising speed or into strong wind, rather than half. (I'd say my H-8 did 5.0 knots at half throttle--I usually pushed it a little higher, but not to "hull speed"). The shaft length is more important than the extra 2 HP I never used, including in some really nasty stuff on Long Island Sound. The T-6 will be noisier at speed, and you'll want to enter a slip a little more cautiously--it won't stop you like a pillow against a wall, like the Honda does.

And with all due respect to Frank, if you want to be able to rescue somebody in any conditions, you need a boat like mine.

(Click the right-hand picture.) Sarge did get involved in rescuing a sailor in a cold blast a few years ago...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/05/2011 12:12:48

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/05/2011 : 14:00:33

I humbly agree

, I would much rather see you coming than see me coming.

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labsonboard
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2011 : 17:50:25

Thanks to all of you. Although I was leaning towards keeping the Honda 8 I feel better about skipping the smaller engine. I'm putting the order in for the 4 spring mount tonight.

BTW, I wasn't trying to save money since I'd have to sell the Honda that I bought new at a loss. I just wondered if I needed the added weight.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2011 : 18:34:13

I forgot to add another opinion, regarding the weight... 40 lbs. one way or the other in that 5,000+ lb. boat is pretty inconsequential (less than 1%) unless you're a hard-core racer (in which case, just lose some weight

). I replaced an 85 lb. Honda 8 (the "classic") with a 110 lb. Honda 8, and it had no noticeable effect (to me) on the boat, how she sat on her lines, or her performance under sail. On the other hand, she ran much better under power due to the extra-long shaft, maneuvering around the dock was like having 20 hp, and we loved the electric starter.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/05/2011 18:38:00

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1797 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2011 : 19:58:59

IMHO -- #1. = shaft length (25 or XL is REALLY important); #2. = HP (on open water 8/9.8 is essential -- on smaller protective lakes MAYBE less will suffice) #3. = weight (less is more as the engine is on a bracket outboard). All the electronics, alternators, electric start, trim, etc is far less of an issue. I would talk to local (read in the same bay/lake, etc) sailors with similar weight boats and make a decision based on that. In my case, on Western Long Island Sound (@7miles wide X @100 miles long X 10-several hundred feet deep) I wanted a 9.8 xl shaft and have never regretted it. 90% of the time I run at 1/4 throttle, but, I have NEEDED close to 100% on a couple ugly occasions . . . .

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2011 : 10:32:17

<< NO 6hp is not enough >>

I've used a 6hp on Lake Lanier for years. When I have the 6HP engine worked on I use a smaller engine and it works fine. If I was out in 30+ winds I would have a problem with the smaller engine, but then I can always call boat US or another boater for a tow in such a populated area.

Usually I have been able to sail up into protected waters and drop the sails and use the engine when it was blowing hard. (or the anchor )

I also now have very good predictions of the weather.

Edited by - on

keeldad
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2011 : 13:13:59

Does anybody have a 9.9 4 stroke Suzuki? The PO put a new one on right before he sold the boat 3 years ago and it's very nice but, one problem, there is no way to flush the engine after daily use. I sail in salt water and also own a Mako 22 with an Evinrude 175. The Evinrude has a flushing port that allows me to attach a hose with a quick disconnect to flush it out every time after use. There is an attachment for winterizing the Suzuki but that entails sealing off the water pickup which is under the cavitation plate and flushing water through the adaptor. While doing some research on this, there was a discussion on several web sites that basically said, new engines that are designed for saltwater don't need to be flushed after each use. Does this sound right? Like everybody else here, I sail a used boat and would rather maintain what I have instead of having to purchase something new because the original it wasn't properly cared for. Opinions?

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2011 : 14:14:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">but that entails sealing off the water pickup which is under the cavitation plate<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I use this thingy:

But if your intake is below the cavit plate you might need this thingy:

Forgot to add; I have a Tohatsu and not a Suzuki.

Edited by - Davy J on 06/06/2011 14:18:09

keeldad
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2011 : 07:45:36

Thanks Davy J. The yellow thingy might be the ticket. I'll check the Tohatsu dealers. Vaguely I remember seeing something like that made for Suzuki's but I can't remember where I saw it.

Edited by - on

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