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4th of July Fireworks - BUST

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/04/2011 : 17:55:22

It was a decent plan....the boat club tows a big barge with professional fireworks out into the lake and anchors it, then hundreds and hundreds of boats anchor all around....at dark they shoot them off over our heads while we sit in the cockpit, sipping beverages and enjoying the night air and mass of boats.....

Not for us though....on the way out of the marina (not a breath of wind) my little Yamaha 5HP 2 stroker coughed, then started to bog down, and finally quit. As we drifted slowly, out of control, back toward the marina at least, we tried and tried to get it started. It finally fired up with a ton of smoke (from choking it) but died again almost as quickly, making that bogging down sound.

Fortunately, we were drifting toward the marina, and using the technique of swishing the rudder back and forth like a paddle I was able to get some control, in combination with the drift, and made it to a dock. Tied her up and let the motor sit for a bit as we checked fuel, water intake, anything we could think of. We actually got it going again, and it ran for about 3 minutes...seemed normal, pumping water, exhaust smoke looked normal....but try anything above a high idle and it would just make a bogging down sound, and it eventually died again.

Damn.

So, I let the marina office know and they said they have a skiff and that they'll either go over and tow it back to my slip, or call me and I can come out and help them tow it back to my slip....now I'm faced with probably buying a new motor. I've been wanting a new one anyway...and I'm kinda quirky about this sort of thing...even if I get the motor fixed, I'll never ever fully trust it again. I'll always have the thought in the back of my head....gee, I hope I make it....you know?

And to make matters worse, I don't handle the heat very well anymore. It was 104, humid and no wind at all...so I'm sweating like there's no tomorrow, getting dizzy and on the verge of a heat injury. Walking down the dock to my Jeep I started getting dizzy and seeing little sparks in my vision. My heart was beating fast and I know I'm getting in trouble. I made it to the Jeep and sat in the cold AC until I cooled down...but I had to go back to the boat and get some stuff plus lock her up....by the time I got back to the Jeep each trip, same condition...had to sit in the cold AC until I cooled down.

So, now I'm home and I'm okay. I'm tired and feel a little sore, but I've drank 4 bottles of Gatorade and actually feel a little hungry....that was a close call with heat exhaustion.

NOT how I wanted my 4th of July evening to go!

Scott

When we left, we had just enough fuel to make it to San Juan. And now... we are out of fuel!

Edited by - Joe Diver on 07/04/2011 18:01:30

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2011 : 19:37:46

A new boat can lead to over enthusiasm. Wichita is having a serious run of triple digits as well, stay home during the day and sail at night.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2011 : 20:11:44

The heat wouldn't have been an issue if I hadn't broken down, or even if I had broken down out in the lake....was planning on motoring out (breeze) dropping the hook and going for a swim...since the swim never came into it, I never got a chance to cool off.

But yeah, usually I draw the line at body temp with heat. I go out in the morning, from dawn until about 11:00 then stay in until the sun goes down or right before the sun goes down, once the temps start dropping below 98.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2011 : 20:52:18

We'll keep a link to this thread for when you Texas guys are bragging about sailing in January. Today here in eastern CT, it was sunny, about 83, a little humid, with steady winds around 13-15 for most of the day. A little warmer than I prefer, but...

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 05:10:36

Ditto here in Northern Michigan. Temps around 84, winds 10 to 15. Big family get-together and heavy parade schedule kept us off the the boat though.
Temps in the low to mid 70's the rest of the week should make for pleasant beer-can racing Weds evening. Taking the granddaughters out for their first sail.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 05:16:28

Wow the only time I've experienced something like that was filling sand bags at Cam Rahn Bay, Vietnam - 120 degrees, in 1969.

We had a fairly pleasant 84 with winds 10-15 for most of the day. Big family get together and parade schedule kept me off the boat though.

Temps in the low to mid 70's the rest of the week will be very pleasant for club racing Weds evening. I hope to take our oldest granddaughter (7 yrs old) out for her first sailing experience.

Edited by - aeckhart on 07/05/2011 05:18:39

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 07:23:59

Yeah....we're now paying for our nice winters.....

Any ideas about the motor? It's been running like a champ, no indications of trouble. Starts on the first or second pull and I've motored all over with it. I've run maybe a tank and a half (6 gal tank) through it in the last couple months.

It started normally yesterday...motored out of the marina, throttled up and was heading out....all of a sudden, it started bogging down and within seconds it died....

I'm not a mechanic, but I'm thinking a clogged jet?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 07:44:36

If the high-speed jet was clogged, it wouldn't throttle up in the first place--it would stall the second you twisted the grip. Sounds like it's losing fuel. Your vent is open, of course...

The fuel line might be sucking air somewhere, such as at the tank or engine connection or a crack in the bulb. Another possiblity is a stuck float in the carb.

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 07:55:51

Is There a chance of "Vapor Lock"? and do you use any additives?
I would opt for what Dave said..That sucking of air into the line.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 10:16:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 Yeah....we're now paying for our nice winters.....

Any ideas about the motor? It's been running like a champ, no indications of trouble. Starts on the first or second pull and I've motored all over with it. I've run maybe a tank and a half (6 gal tank) through it in the last couple months.

It started normally yesterday...motored out of the marina, throttled up and was heading out....all of a sudden, it started bogging down and within seconds it died....

I'm not a mechanic, but I'm thinking a clogged jet?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Did you buy your gas from somewhere new? How old is your gas?

I will go through 3 or 4 month stretches where my motor runs fine and then it will do something like you're describing. It's a 2007 Four stroke Merc 9.9 and it only had a few hours on it when I bought it. Sunday night we had a raft up planned, I get to the marina and it won't start, then it won't stay running. I added some Sea foam to it and that seemed to fix the problem. It go through so little gas that I think my fuel gets old. The other time I had a major problem was because I used gas with enthanol in it and my fuel line wasn't rated for it, that forced me to have the carb pulled and cleaned out. Tell me about the heat, Saturday afternoon we launched and rigged this boat on Grapevine. IT WAS HOT!!!

Benyy First 210

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 11:15:45

I get gas at the same place each time, by the lake. This is only the second tank I've run through it. All of our gas has eth in it....none of the eth0 stations are anywhere close.

The bulb stayed firm, and yes, the vent is opened....but my fuel line is rather old. I think I'll bring the motor home, check the compression, clean the carb, replace the spark plug. Then I'll buy a new fuel line, clean up the gas tank and put fresh gas in. I've got a 50 Gallon trash can I can half fill with water to run the engine in and see what happens.

My fear is now that it'll run fine but then give up on me out in the lake. Trust issues....

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 12:11:11

Your symptoms are typical of loss of fuel. First check the fuel filter. You either have an inline filter of one on the carb. Next replace the fuel line. both of these are little cost. (possible air leak)
I don't know your age but if it was me I would sell or trade in the motor for a new 4 stroke electric start. When it is that hot outside you do not need to be pull starting an engine. Life is too short to drink cheap beer or have a heart attack pulling a motor.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 13:07:36

Joe, I feel your pain. The only fireworks I saw were the ones coming out of my mouth when I attempted to go out sailing on Saturday and found out my outboard either has a damaged lower case or blown head gasket from overheating, according to my mechanic. Guess a trip to Catalina I made 3 months ago triggered the event. Due to no wind, we motored 6 hours up and 6 back. Needless to say, no sailing for me on the holiday and out of commission for next two weeks. Bummer!!!!!(wish we had a crying emoticon!)
Steve A

Edited by - on

Nephidoc
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 13:17:51

Must be a bad motor weekend. My Yamaha 6HP ran for about 10 minutes.... then nothing but pulling....pulling...pulling. Then after about an hour got it to run for 10 min.... then nothing. I was spent so off to the shop. Had a good spark. Had good flow. I didn't replace the old fuel when I bought the boat 2 weeks ago. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Stan

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 13:28:30

A blown head gasket or a damaged lower unit?????? Kind of unrelated for possibles.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 14:03:07

Dang! I'm sorry I'm not the only one guys....hope I didn't send out some jinx mojo....

I don't have an inline fuel filter, so if there is one it's under the cowl. Is that just a filter OJ, or is it a separator too? I'll add that to the "to do" list when I get the motor home.

I agree with the new, electric 4 stroker....sure would make life easier, but I only motor out of the marina and down the slough, about 15 minutes to the lake. Prevailing winds are southerly so I'm always motoring directly into the wind, as soon as I clear the point I'm under sail and heading west. My little Yammy has been a real trooper, always starting on the first or second pull and runs great, never stutters or misses, doesn't smoke alot, so I'm disappointed....but maybe it's something simple like a clogged filter, screen, jet, fouled plug, bad line.....I'm not a mechanic, but I can do some stuff and 2 strokers are pretty simple...I've done top ends on my dirt bikes....as long as you have compression, hot spark, fuel and the needles are right, they'll run.

I wonder if the 6 gallon tank is too big? I've only used half of it since the last time I got gas back in May. Maybe I should go with the smaller 3.2 gallon tanks. I could keep a small 1 gallon reserve tank on board just in case. There are 3 marinas with gas on my end of the lake alone, and at least 3 more up toward the north end so I'm not far from gas if I really need it. Not that I want to pay marina prices, but if it's that or running out...

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 14:09:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 I get gas at the same place each time, by the lake. This is only the second tank I've run through it. All of our gas has eth in it....none of the eth0 stations are anywhere close.

The bulb stayed firm, and yes, the vent is opened....but my fuel line is rather old. I think I'll bring the motor home, check the compression, clean the carb, replace the spark plug. Then I'll buy a new fuel line, clean up the gas tank and put fresh gas in. I've got a 50 Gallon trash can I can half fill with water to run the engine in and see what happens.

My fear is now that it'll run fine but then give up on me out in the lake. Trust issues....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's what we have sails for!

Seriously, I never trust my engine so I'm extra careful about checking the weather. I also have a good idea where the empty slips are in my marina that I can get to easily if I have to sail in. I never take down all my sails before I start the engine. I never "come in hot" to my dock under power. I've had to learn to tack in close quarters and learned to sail in and out of my slip, I've done it before when forced to and I know I can make it if I need to. If the engine is acting funny, I make sure the paddle boat hook is in the cockpit.

Once you have an alternate plan, the fear of the engine screwing things up is greatly reduced. There was a time when, if my engine didn't start on the first pull while coming back in, I would go into a panic. Now, I just keep plugging away at starting the engine, knowing I have a "Plan B". Invariably , the last few times this happened to me, I was able to get it started with a hell of a lot of less stress.

Edited by - PCP777 on 07/05/2011 14:10:49

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 14:14:46

And running it for six+ hours won't damage the motor either. As to the Yamaha problem, My guess is dirt or a grain of sand is partially blocking your main jet. You get enough gas through the jet to fill the carb bowl and keep it full at an idle but when you throttle up and the engine demands more fuel the carb bowl empties out and you stall. Squeezing the bulb refills the bowl and you are able to start the engine. If the float was perforated it would drop to the bottom of the bowl and totally fill the bowl with gas which would then start to pour out the carb overflow. You would know this by all the gas running out of the carb. Clean the carb, Clean your tank, replace the gas line and get a filter in there even if its just an inline filter.

Edited by - on

JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 15:04:21

There's nothing like the frustration a sailor can feel towards a derelict outboard motor. I absolutely hate mine. I'm saving for a new one and planning on using our association discount. Although I'm not sure where to find the code.
At any rate, we had our 1979 Johnson 9.9 tuned up over the winter and the mechanic said to always by high octane gas and johnson-evinrude 2stroke oil. He said the rest is junk. Do I trust everything he says? Not as much as I distrust our motor...so I buy the gas and oil he tells me to and it has helped keep our motor problems to a minimum so far.

Just wanted to chime in for the sake of solidarity.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 17:17:08

I use two 3 gal. tanks, but a three and a one sounds just fine for you.

Buy what makes you happy, but there are plenty of good 2 stroke oils and premium fuel in a low compression engine is a total waste

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 19:56:14

I agree premium fuel is probably a waste... it isn't "better"--it's just the wrong octane. Go with what the manufacturer recommends, and add a stabilizer like Marine StaBil to every tank. It's important in this day of E-10 gas, especially if it takes you several months to use the couple of gallons you're buying.

2-cycle oil has a rating, generally prefixed by NMMA, JASO, or ISO. Check your owner's manual and use a product that has the specified rating. Mercury, Johnson, Evinrude, Honda, etc., put private labels on the appropriate stuff from Exxon, BP, Shell, or somebody. The rating is key--not the brand.

An internal fuel filter is not also a water separator. A separator needs to be large enough to allow any water to settle out as the fuel moves through. Smaller engines can use smaller separators, but larger is better. I installed a Racor separator on Passage and have one on Sarge. In this time of E-10, which attracts water from the air in your tank as well as the gas station's or marina's tanks, mechanics I know consider it to be a requirement to prevent carb damage.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2011 : 21:24:03

UPDATE: 

Motor seems to be fine?

My buddy and I went out to the marina with a couple of oars tonight, to row the boat back to the slip, remove the motor and bring it home to work on it. I thought, let's try to start it and see if it'll run long enough to at least get back to the slip. It idled, so I can idle in gear through the marina.

Started right up on the first pull, just like always. Ran like a champ, idled, revved up, everything.....and seemed to have a noticeably stronger water stream. My buddy even commented on it, said it looked alot better than last night. Hmmm....well, let it warm up, then motored back to my slip. Purring like a cat....let it idle as we tied up, thinking let's see....and it ran just fine. So, we decided to take her out as it had now run much longer than it did yesterday and seemed to be back to normal.

We motored out of the marina, down the slough, out into the lake, down the dam, around a cove, back down the slough and home to the slip. Spent about an hour or so at 3/4 throttle, just like always, and the motor never missed a beat or bogged down; just ran like a champ.

So???? We're now thinking that maybe something clogged the water intake and caused the motor to overheat....and as long as it was hot, it wouldn't run right. Once it sat and cooled down...and whatever it was dislodged itself so the water flow was stronger....

I don't know...that's my best guess at this point...unless the Motor Fairy visited last night and fixed my motor for me.....

Edited by - Joe Diver on 07/05/2011 21:27:58

TCurran
Admiral

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Response Posted - 07/06/2011 : 02:52:40

I vote for the motor fairy...

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/06/2011 : 04:45:44

<< Motor Fairy >> Please .. I'd say you need to try to figure out what happened...

I've used White Gas ( Coleman Fuel ), about 1/4 of a tank on many 2 strokes and they run fine. All white gas in my lawn mowers and they run fine. When I put high octane on my outboard it reved up and died. They run fine with regular gas, so the white gas is most probably not any different. It is just easy to buy in a sealed can and transport to the boat without fumes. Makes it so you don't have to run to the marina. I've used the same engines all my life as they keep running and I can't seem to justify getting others. I don't use them much.

My water output was low and kept getting noticeably lower and the engine was skipping some so I figured it was a water pump wearing out. Usta be a regular event on the old days at the beach as the engines had the intake below the fin on the foot and they would pull sand in them and quit working. I found debris in the line, the rubber line breaking down and I need to replace the line.

I've had one 2 stroke die at night on the forth of July. We were gonna send up a flare ( before cell phones ) but it was the forth. A wet humid night. I finally got the plug burned off with a lighter and it cranked up, so I think you could attribute it to a wet plug, but who knows, it could have been flooded..

The grlfrnd took the boat out by herself with 2 grlfrnds and they were so thrilled. She had to get Okee Dokee with the engine and it cranks on the first pull every time... for now.. but I had to write her a checklist.

Soooo anyhoo... I keep Two Crack Pipe Lighters ( three torch Butane Cigar lighters ) in my backpack and primarily use them to burn the end of lines, even when they are wet, but they are for heating up a plug should that happen again. We usta do the same thing with 2 stroke motorbikes when they would get a "wet" plug. Excessive oil buildup on the plug. Spray the plug off with starter fluid and wipe it down. Spray starter fluid into the engine plug opening and replace the plug fast. Easy way to get it going again.

So now I've got to remember to get the grlfrnd to keep one when she goes out alone...

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/06/2011 : 05:17:37

This engine from 1976 ish has been sitting in the garage and I need to put it on a trash can and fire it up before it rusts up. I'm just Lake sailing so I can get away with using old engines, but they run and we can call a tow pretty easily so I'd probably use this at the Gulf Coast if I was still down there.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2011 : 07:34:54

No, I'm pretty sure it was the Motor Fairy. Monday night I put a spark plug under my pillow before bed time, and it was gone yesterday morning.

Doesn't matter though, I'm gonna have the money to buy a new motor anyway. I put mine on Craigslist and there's a guy in Australia who wants to buy it for his brother as a gift. His brother is in France on business right now, but when I ship the motor to Brownsville he's going to send me a cashiers check for twice what I'm asking.

I'm also going to have alot more money soon as I helped a Nigerian Prince free up his inheritance. I got an email from him asking for help transferring money, and I get to keep $50k for my troubles.

I was going to have them deposit it directly in my PayPal account, but I got an email that my account had been flagged for security reasons....I followed the link, logged in and confirmed my account info, password, Social Security number and drivers license number. Once that gets worked out I'll be able to transfer the money from the Nigerian Prince and ship the motor to Brownsville.

Edited by - on

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