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Sail Tuning

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Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/27/2011 : 06:50:13

Does anyone know of a good reference either in this forum or a book on how to optimally tune your sails?

Jan Briede
Beagle
1979 TR #1242 FK
L-Dinette
Yorktown, VA
Blog -- http://vanomad.blogspot.com/

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2011 : 10:13:21

I think that North Sails has bnoth a CD and a book on sail trim. Through their "North U" they do 2 seminars - one on sail trim and the other on racing tactics, and they have the CD and book on both.

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2011 : 11:38:36

just search "sail tuning" on YouTube, there are plenty of videos about this

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2011 : 12:26:16

There are a lot of threads here with great insight. Ross Sail Power was my early bible. Once you understand lift and laminar flow the trick is to understand your rig and how to pull the strings to get the results you want. One of my favorite insights for new sailors is to explain to them that a boat with no strings to pull is the most powerful configuration you can sail; full pocket, full hoist. Virtually every "go fast" string you can add to a boat is there to de-power the boat; through sail shaping. Newbies who are afraid to heel think they don't need a Cuningham, boom vang, adjustable outhaul, or lines lead to the cockpit for reefing, halyards, etc.
My point is that your sail shape options will depend on how you rig your own boat. I am always befuddled by those here who ask what they should add to their boats and how to do it. As a boat owner you need to study your deck, look at the decks of fast boats around you, (fast boats are those that stay under control under most conditions), and design your deck to meet your needs... then you can create any sail shape you want, when you need it. Bottom line on sail shape is to use tell tails and keep them flying with your pocket/chord depth and location set to the wind strength you are in.
I am a compulsive sail trimmer because I sail on a lake, no where to go, so sail trim is why I am out there. You of course may find your venue to be more navigation driven, but regardless, "go fast" strings make a boat safer to sail.

Edited by - on

two port feet
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2011 : 13:00:53

Sail trim the easy way. Attend the Lake Havasu Pocket Cruiser Convention and sign up for a free sail trim seminar. Lots of fun. Check it out at http://www.sailhavasu.com

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2011 : 18:50:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jan Briede
 Does anyone know of a good reference either in this forum or a book on how to optimally tune your sails?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There really isn't any one optimum sail tune as it will vary according to the conditions, point of sail, etc. Find yourself a good book on sail trim then practice.

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2011 : 09:21:05

Maximum Sail Power is a good book on sails, I think there is a PDF version here:

http://www.4shared.com/document/1wMejzkq/Maximum_Sail_Power.html

Cheers

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2011 : 10:06:57

Nice freebie there.....thanks!

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Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2011 : 17:43:44

Great book, now I need a laptop or a tablet so I can take it to the boat and read it cover to cover in peace!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2011 : 19:18:29

Absolutely, and one reason is the apparent wind changes with speed, requiring different trim if you are holding a course. Isn't sailing great!
I am stunned when I sail with people who do not watch their sails and trim often. And surprise, surprise, they also can't hold a course. LOL. I think there are three kinds of boats, those where the boom is a very real danger to people on board, the kind where the helmsman is compass bound, and the kind where someone is actually sailing the boat.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2011 : 19:28:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by two port feet
 Sail trim the easy way. Attend the Lake Havasu Pocket Cruiser Convention and sign up for a free sail trim seminar. Lots of fun. Check it out at http://www.sailhavasu.com

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I are apparently not too smart, for the life of me I could not find where to register. With my little Starwind 223 I could actually attend!

Edited by - pastmember on 11/30/2011 19:31:54

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2011 : 20:34:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...I think there are three kinds of boats, those where the boom is a very real danger to people on board, the kind where the helmsman is compass bound, and the kind where someone is actually sailing the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Frank, I'm guessing you've never sailed 50 miles in one direction.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2011 : 21:36:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Frank, I'm guessing you've never sailed 50 miles in one direction.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Venues are certainly different, four hours on a single tack doesn't require nearly as much fiddling. I learned to sail on San Diego Bay and the Pacific, spent the next 25 years on inland lakes, and now I'm back to the Great Lakes and the Gulf Coast. They're all fun but require exercising different parts of your sailing skill set.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 06:35:55

The extent to which you are actively engaged in sail trimming depends, to some extent, on whether you're racing or cruising. If you're cruising, there's no urgency to get there in a hurry, and it's even ok to heave to for rest if necessary. If you're racing, however, nobody wants to race 1000 miles only to be beaten by one boat-length or one mile, so serious racers are actively trimming and scrutinizing sail trim continuously. There's no reason why each sailor shouldn't do what makes sailing most pleasurable for him, but my personal practice is that, except when I'm just jinking around on a lazy day, I generally sail the same way when racing as when cruising, because the whole object of racing is to sail the boat as efficiently as possible, and it seems to me that efficient sailing is as desirable for cruisers as for racers. If you're cruising with crew, your crew will get bored while doing nothing for hours on end, so, focusing on sail trim keeps the mind occupied while contributing to the efficient sailing of the boat, and an occupied mind is less susceptible to motion sickness.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 06:47:50

I forgot to include the link on my original post.

I would not recommend the book below only because it is extremely technical.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0393032965/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=7985308357&ref=pd_sl_gud791u1e_e

One thing I did take away from it was - you only reach optimal (or perfect) sail trim a few seconds at a time.

Edited by - OJ on 12/01/2011 06:49:35

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 12:21:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...I think there are three kinds of boats, those where the boom is a very real danger to people on board, the kind where the helmsman is compass bound, and the kind where someone is actually sailing the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Frank, I'm guessing you've never sailed 50 miles in one direction.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have never sailed more than 3 miles in one direction, if there is one thing we little lake sailors can do though its tack!

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 13:20:47

Frank, in the short time I've been here, I'd noticed that you were a bit tacky. Now I understand why.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 13:51:24

I'm fortunate in that my sailing venue, the northeast corner of Lake Erie, benefits from a prevailing wind that usually coincides with the daily onshore breeze that turns on like clockwork. This, for the most part, produces a very nice, consistent, direction steady breeze. Sailing for performance while singlehanded, I generally set my sail trim to an apparent wind angle then steer to that angle while making changes to trim if the apparent wind increases or decreases. More often than not, I'll sail out onto the lake for 3-5 hours, tack, then sail 3-5 hours straight back to the marina. Being 15-20 miles offshore is rather exhilarating!

Edited by - on

JAB
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 15:34:16

I can recommend Sailpower by Peter Nielsen. Amazon carries it.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 18:02:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 I'm fortunate in that my sailing venue, the northeast corner of Lake Erie, benefits from a prevailing wind that usually coincides with the daily onshore breeze that turns on like clockwork. This, for the most part, produces a very nice, consistent, direction steady breeze. Sailing for performance while singlehanded, I generally set my sail trim to an apparent wind angle then steer to that angle while making changes to trim if the apparent wind increases or decreases. More often than not, I'll sail out onto the lake for 3-5 hours, tack, then sail 3-5 hours straight back to the marina. Being 15-20 miles offshore is rather exhilarating!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">This reminds of a Cleveland-Point Pelee-Marblehaed-Cleveland race Don. Heading north for 6 1/2 hours flying a spinnaker on a C&C 38. My most memorable leg of sailing.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 18:03:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Frank, in the short time I've been here, I'd noticed that you were a bit tacky. Now I understand why.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yep that's me

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2011 : 19:16:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 This reminds of a Cleveland-Point Pelee-Marblehaed-Cleveland race Don. Heading north for 6 1/2 hours flying a spinnaker on a C&C 38. My most memorable leg of sailing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow, that does sound like an awesome ride! I, too, enjoy long spinnaker runs so I usually set myself up when heading out to have a good angle for the spinnaker on the way back.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2011 : 04:42:08

Thanks for the link. Looks like I will be doing some reading and practicing. On the small lake I sail on I am constantly changing the sail trim-now I can learn to do it correctly.

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2012 : 07:21:15

Any thoughts on the tall rig vrs standard for trim and stability?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2012 : 07:47:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sam001
 Any thoughts on the tall rig vrs standard for trim and stability?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In up to around 20 kts of wind, the tall rig is faster than the standard rig. Above about 20 kts of wind, the tall rig starts to become overpowered. Because it has extra sail area and weight aloft, the tall rig boat becomes overpowered earlier than the standard rig boat, so you need to begin reducing sail area earlier than the standard rig. Thus, the tall rig boat is faster in light to moderate winds, and, IMO, the standard rig boat is faster in strong winds. If you're sailing on an inland lake or other characteristically light air area, such as the Chesapeake Bay, I would suggest the tall rig. If you're sailing in a characteristically windy area, the standard rig would be the better choice.

Edited by - on

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2012 : 10:21:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by two port feet
 Sail trim the easy way. Attend the Lake Havasu Pocket Cruiser Convention and sign up for a free sail trim seminar. Lots of fun. Check it out at http://www.sailhavasu.com

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I are apparently not too smart, for the life of me I could not find where to register. With my little Starwind 223 I could actually attend!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,
In early November, they were not yet accepting reservations/entries. If you retrn to "SailHavasu" now, you will find an entry button. How many "Free" sailing events exist? 155 boats entered so far.

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