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VC-17 question

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 06:53:30

Jonathan,
I'm following this thread with some interest. Please let us know how much of both VC17 and 2000E you use!

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 07:33:18

I only bought a quart of each because I'm doing my trial run with the rudder before I yank the boat out of the water. It definitely won't take that much, so I'll probably have to throw away most of it. I don't think this stuff will keep in the can very long.
Last night I taped off the water line and sanded the rudder down til the gloss dissapeared (Like Foss Rudders recomends. See rudder thread in C25 forum).
I'm using the grey color 2000E as a signal coat should the blue VC-17M dissapear.

I couldn't take pics last night cause it got dark quick, but I'll try to from now on.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 12/28/2011 07:33:46

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 11:32:16

Jonathan,

It is my understanding that System 2000E is intended to be applied directly to gel coat - not over any previously applied bottom paint . . .

You are mixing only as much as you need for each coat? Sorry to ask but I had a friend who mixed an entire gallon - thinking it would not cure 'til after he applied 2nd & 3rd coats . . . not!

Covering the old color is not the objective. Achieving a certain thickness is the key . . . 12 Mils I think? 5 coats is the common to achieve this.

Edited by - OJ on 12/28/2011 11:38:29

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 12:26:31

Yes, I'll be mixing only what I need per coat, or just dividing the cans by 5 since I'm only painting the bottom half of the rudder.
I've already sanded the rudder with 120 grit paper by hand. This was mentioned by Foss and Interlux to get the barrier coat to stick to the gel coat. There can't be any shiny surface.
I've also searched for recoating times and it seems 3hrs is the min, and 15hrs max before needed to resand. Since the potlife is only 3hrs, that means you can only mix what you need for each coat.

I've been searching and compiling information for a while now because it's not all in one spot.

Now, the VC-17 application seems a little fuzzy to me. Since I won't be applying it right after the last coat of 2000E, I'm thinking that I'm supposed to scuff the 2000E for the VC-17 to stick.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 12/28/2011 12:30:38

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 15:12:55

We store the VC-17 year to year and thus far ahve had no trouble. Just be sure the can is well sealed and flip it upside down about once a month.

Before using mix well.

No need to dump perfectly good paint.

Edited by - on

OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 17:38:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 . . . I'm thinking that I'm supposed to scuff the 2000E for the VC-17 to stick . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not necessary

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 18:13:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 . . . I'm thinking that I'm supposed to scuff the 2000E for the VC-17 to stick . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not necessary
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With VC-Tar2 there's no need to sand, but I believe Interlux recommends sanding InterProtect 2000E prior to applying VC-17m.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 19:29:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 We store the VC-17 year to year and thus far ahve had no trouble. Just be sure the can is well sealed and flip it upside down about once a month.

Before using mix well.

No need to dump perfectly good paint.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was refering to the 2000e once its mixed. Once mixed, it has a 3hr potlife.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 11:39:22

Well, I just finished with the Interprotect 2000E. It took the whole quart to get 5 coats on the rudder. They recommend 4 at the minimum. Here's some notes:

* I used a pack of (6) 2" foam brushes to apply. The pack was only $3, so I could just dispose of them after each coat. Cleaning up a brush each time would have been a nightmare to do, although it might have applied the epoxy better. I also used food cans for each mixture, again for the same reason. Cheap and disposable!
* I used plastic spoons to transfer 12 scoops of base and another spoon for 4 scoops of reactor (3-1 ratio). This was the correct amount needed for one good coat. You have to throw the spoons away each time because the base eventually melts the spoons.
* I believe I read that this stuff was supposed to be self-leveling, but this was not entirely the case. It did somewhat, but I also have a few rough spots where I added too much and it didn't level very well.
* The temp was around 60-70 degrees. The paint took about 30 minutes to touch dry, but needed the full 3-4hrs for overcoating. So the process took 2 days.

The online instructions that I found says that the epoxy needs 24-36hrs to cure before adding VC-17M. 24hrs comes late tonight, so I'll add the first coat of VC-17 later.

I really hate doing this, but at least I know that I'm doing it right the first time on a brand new rudder. I'm thinking that I'll have to do this to the hull at some point soon. Hopefully a roller will make that chore a little easier.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 13:40:40

Looking forward to pics.!

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 19:15:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Jonathan,
I'm following this thread with some interest. Please let us know how much of both VC17 and 2000E you use!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Jim,

IIRC, VC17 is only good for lake water, and would not work in an area like where you sail.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 07:26:44

I put on the first coat of VC-17 last night. It actually went on very easy. The instructions said to use a roller and not a brush. The roller went on super fast, which is required since the VC-17 dries super fast. There was a lot of mixing required. The copper powder doesn't mix well.
The only problem I had was that it didn't stick in all the spots the first time. The roller seemed to drag the paint and left just a few small spots. The second coat will pick them up though.

The pics didn't come out well at all because of the low light levels. But, I promissed. lol

They were taken while the paint was still wet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SharkRacer/Catalina/IMG_20120101_154452.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SharkRacer/Catalina/IMG_20120103_180316.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SharkRacer/Catalina/IMG_20120103_180240.jpg

I don't know why this forum doesn't like photobucket thumbnail tags?

Edited by - NautiC25 on 01/04/2012 07:30:33

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 07:58:04

Done! Last night went extremely well. The first coat, I forgot to mention that I used a standard large roller. It was bulky and soaked up a lot of VC-17. I decided to swing by Lowes and pick up a 4" roller, 3/8" nap, and a 4" tray to go with it ($9 total). I mixed the second half of the quart and began to apply the second coat using the new roller. It went on much smoother than the first. It covered every spot. But, the best thing was that I had way more left over than before. I highly recommend going with a 4" roller if you're doing a small job like this.
Since the VC-17 dries so fast, I put on a coat, flipped the rudder to do the other side, and by the time I was done with that side, I could flip it over again and repeat the process til the paint was gone. I did this about 3-4 times. They recommend 2-3 coats at least, and I got about 5. The VC-17 also smoothes out the 2000E.
I can't wait to throw it in the water to see how fast the color turns. Right now it's a deep copper.

I peeled the masking tape off and you can see the thickness of all the layers of paint.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 01/05/2012 08:03:38

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 08:45:22

4" foam roller? I always use 4" foam rollers. I dump the copper into the can and shake, pour out what I want and lightly close the can, when I need more I either swirl the can or close the lid better and shake.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 09:12:12

Not foam. I don't know exactly what the regular rollers are made of. I did think about putting the paint and copper in a seperate container that could be shaken, rather than stirred. But, it was too late. lol And, it was getting late when I did the first coat, so I needed to reclose the container for the next day. I'm not sure if the paint can be mixed and kept in the original container for a day? If so, then yea I should have done that!

I'm just glad that I did this on the rudder first. It was a huge learning experience and now I'm confident about doing the hull next.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 01/05/2012 09:12:59

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 09:20:10

Before you do the hull, you should reconsider the type of roller you use. I think thin foam rollers are recommended for this type of paint. They will get a much smoother finish which can be burnished better. I'm not sure I'd buy cheap Home Depot rollers, because they're made for house paint - water/acrylic or oil/alkyd. You're dealing with some pretty aggressive naphtha solvents here, and those could dissolve some foam rollers and/or the adhesive used to hold the flocking on traditional nap rollers. Spend the extra bucks and get rollers made for boat paint.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 09:33:37

I thought about foam rollers, but didn't see any at the store. The nap roller didn't seem to deteriorate, and had a plastic cylinder instead of paper. It held up well. But, I could see how a foam roller would roll on smoother and absorb less paint. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll order the foam rollers when ordering the paint for the hull.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 01/05/2012 09:34:18

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 16:48:09

I've used regular 4" foam rollers from Home Depot for VC-17m for about a dozen years and I will continue to do so. I open the can with screwdriver, pour the copper into the can, put the lid on tight, shake to mix, then punch a small hole in the top of the can with the screwdriver for pouring. As I paint, I give the can occasional swirls to keep it well mixed and I only pour enough paint in the tray for a roller full.

Today, while at West Marine I noticed a can of VC-17m was going for $62.99. Geez, I remember buying it on sale for $24.99!

Edited by - dlucier on 01/05/2012 19:16:52

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 05:16:56

We mixed in the copper, and then dipped the 4" foam roller brush directly into the can, covering the can with the lid. I was able to cover the entire bottom and rudder with just under 1qt. Evaporation is the issue.

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Seaquel
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 05:34:31

We mixed the VC-17 in a 2 liter soda bottle (use a funnel). Shake well to mix. Pour out a little at a time into the roller pan to minimize evaporation. Paint kept well in the bottle - shook it up and used the next season.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 06:21:24

Funny how all these very helpful hints come right AFTER I just painted. lol

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Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 07:31:57

I know......That is why it is taking me so long to start any of my projects......
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24133
Here is another on bottom painting. You can use that for painting the bottom, fortunatly, you have only completed the rudder to date.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 08:28:05

Another trick I've read on this forum is to pour mixed-up VC-17 from the can into a condiment squeeze bottle and squirt it directly onto the roller.

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 08:41:41

Thanks for the link Ape-X. I did a search for vc-17 and don't think I came up on that one before.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 15:22:18

It hasn't been mentioned in this thread - so here goes. I was so intimidated by the quick drying aspect that I invested in an airless sprayer first time I applied VC-17. It was very quick and easy.

FWIW!

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