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5 Questions - maybe more

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waterbaby
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USA
168 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/10/2012 : 08:04:12

We're updating a few things and I'd like to get your opinions on a few items before we start. Here's the list:

1. Sail slides. We have plastic sail slides for the mainsail and hubby want's to upgrade to metal one's with the idea that they'll slide better. Is that true? He's thinking that with the metal slides the sail will drop with no effort. We've used sailkote on the plastic slides and on the track and it works for a little while but then it wears off.

2. Lazy Jacks - There's a technical tip on this site for how to make them yourself, and there's several kits that can be purchased. I guess the kits use plastic coated wire vs maybe the do it yourself version could be poly rope. Is it worth the extra money for the kit?

3.Spreader Flag Haylard - $60+ bucks for a kit. Really? Anybody got a cheap easy way of doing this? I was just thinking a pad eye on the spreader and another on the mast with a little poly rope loop between the two. Am I crazy? (Don't answer that!

)

4. Anchor roller. I don't know why this baffles me like it does but I just look at all the options and my eyes cross. We have a new 25# manson that I'd like to hang off the front. We have the CDI roller furler also. Can anyone make this easier for me and just tell me what to order?

5. Bow mast cradle. I picked up the mast crutch from CD but they stated that the bow cradle they sell doesn't fit the 25. I'd like to be able to leave the spreaders on when trailering but I'm concerned about having the mast stored on it's beveled edge without some sort of bracing. When we brought the boat home we removed one of the spreaders so that we could lay the mast down on it's flat side. We have the mast crutch but nothing for the front. Does anybody have a good solution for this? BTW - can you travel with the mast supported on the mast crutch? Seems a little dicey to me with it mounted on the rudder brackets.

1986 TR/SK #5250 Sunshine

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2012 : 08:42:46

This is my anchor roller:

Fairly certain it is model URM-2 by Windline

[url="https://windline.com/index.php?act=viewdetails&mod=132"]URM-2[/url]

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2012 : 09:02:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by waterbaby
 1. Sail slides. We have plastic sail slides for the mainsail and hubby want's to upgrade to metal one's with the idea that they'll slide better. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think that they'll do any better. The plastic ones are sort of self lubricating and are a bit less likely to get hung up. It sounds like maybe your track needs to be cleaned. A couple of months ago there were some ideas brainstormed on good ways to do that, one of them would be to saturate a sponge with sailkote and stick it in the track between two sail slides. Run that up and down a few times, replacing the chunk of sponge, until it comes out fairly clean.

It sounds like you trailer your boat and have the mast down all the time, so it should be a lot easier to clean the track. I did a good job of cleaning it the one time that we had the mast down and our slides have always run really smoothly.

I wouldn't get a hard metal slide (like stainless steel). If a piece of grit is going to cause anything to get damaged you want to damage a slide, not the mast track. A small burr on the mast track could cause problems for a long time, a small burr on a sail slide means you need to replace a $1 slide. I know which I'd prefer to do.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by waterbaby
 4. Anchor roller. I don't know why this baffles me like it does but I just look at all the options and my eyes cross. We have a new 25# manson that I'd like to hang off the front. We have the CDI roller furler also. Can anyone make this easier for me and just tell me what to order?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This one was tricky for me to figure out too. I ended up with a Windline URM-2 mounted next to my chainplate on the front. On my boat it doesn't run straight out, and I'm not using it to store the anchor, it is just to keep from chipping up the boat when I'm deploying the anchor. I prefer keeping the anchor in the anchor locker because our docking situation is a bit tight and I don't want to make the boat any longer than it already is.

Sorry, I can't help with 2, 3, or 5.

Edited by - on

JAB
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2012 : 09:47:15

Waterbaby,
2. Lazy Jacks - Kits aren't worth the extra money, IMHO, mainly because you're going to have to fuss a little anyway to get the line segments in the right position...to best hold the mainsail and to best avoid snagging the batten end tips upon hoisting. I used 1-in.-dia stainless steel rings instead of blocks to lessen chafe on the sail. With two cheek blocks just under the spreaders and two small cleats under them at the gooseneck, you're good to go. If you use small plastic horn cleats, you can lower the rig on each side, hook one of the SS rings onto a cleat, and then tighten the lazy-jack halyard to keep everything neatly stowed alongside the mast and boom. No need to modify the sail cover. For longer cruises, you can keep the whole lazy jack rig stowed to completely avoid sail chafe.

3. Spreader flag halyard. A single small stand-up block on the underside of the starboard spreader will do fine. Instead of a special flag-halyard cleat that clamps to a wire shroud, we run the lower end of the halyard loop to a small cleat at the base of the mast. Didn't like the idea of clamping anything to the expensive shroud with an Allen screw that could cause a wear point. Be sure to capture the lower end of the halyard loop inside the mast cleat so the flag doesn't fly away.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2012 : 09:53:07

Flag halyard

Just went to the boat to look at my flag halyard. It appears that I have an eye strap(3.00), Harken block 224 (10.00), a shroud cleat with ring (15-20.00) and a line I have tied into a continuous loop (10-12.00). You'll also need some flag clips about (6.00). You could probably skip the block if you wanted the least expensive route.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2012 : 10:45:35

4. Anchor roller

My anchor roller is comprised of a [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=11151&partNumber=9397134&langId=-1&searchKeyword=lewmar+anchor+lock#.UCU3f44mx5w"]Lewmar anchor lock[/url] bolted to the deck just aft of an [url="http://www.chetcomarine.com/anchorroller2.aspx"] 18" x 3" anchor roller [/url] that is bolted down to extend about 5" or 6" off the port bow.

I have bought several replacement pins that go through the anchor shaft, since they rust, or fall overboard, or get stuck.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2012 : 04:11:39

Slides/sail slugs - Agree with Alex. I would hesitate switching to the metal slides.

Rcmd get extra plastic sail slugs since it not uncommon to break one during the season. Having a few spares on hand makes for an easy fix the same day. Rcmd buy the plastic reinforced w/metal rods inside for spares. They should last a bit longer than the all plastic ones and they look the same from the outside.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2012 : 04:39:00

Are the sail slugs the correct size?

Paul

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2012 : 12:20:37

I've had both all plastic and plastic/metal slugs and the slug failures that I've had were all with the plastic only slugs.

When choosing slugs, beyond the plastic/metal issue, one must decide whether to get them with or without rockers.

http://www.sailrite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=18867& c=603010& h=df9efaee62c865c57990
http://www.sailrite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=18863& c=603010& h=155205cb3e97e6641700

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2012 : 12:30:24

I was looking over your original post again regarding the slides and the sail dropping with no effort. Let me add that when my old sails are on, the main will drop to some degree but only when I have turned into the wind and if my motor is on, then only when I am going slowly into the wind or juts fast enough to overcome the wind. Otherwise, even if the sailflaps a bit, there may be too much resistance for it to slide down. Even when it did slide down it did not slide down that much. I would have to get on the cabin and give it a helping hand.

In regards to my newer sails (3-4 years old), the main does not drop down, well maybe 1 foot. It has to be tugged down but generally not an issue and comes dwon fairly easy unless my main halyard hangs up on the cabin top winch or the line gets sandwiched between the seat cushion and the cockpit side wall which happens now and then. The main is still somewhat stiff. A combination of it being newer and a tighter weave compared to the old sail. That works against the main sliding down even if the sail slugs and groove were recently sprayed with sail-kote.

Edited by - on

waterbaby
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2012 : 16:04:06

Thanks everyone.

I've ordered a cleaner called Ztuffstuff for the deck which I had a sample of from the boat show last year. It's pretty awsome. I think I'll take some of that and clean out the track in the mast first then go over it several times with sailcote. Based on your feedback I'll switch to the metal plastic sail slides (with the rocker, thanks Don). I've already shared this with hubby and he was a little disappointed that the metal slides wouldn't work better but hopeful that the cleaning with help. I don't really know what he's complaining about, it's not that big of a deal. It's not like its hard to get it down. Larry thanks for the further insight on this.

The URM-2 anchor roller doesn't look like it will work with my Manson 25lbs anchor and I'm not sure about the one you have John. Maybe the URM-4?

For the flag halyard I'm going with a micro block and pad eye on the spreader with just a nylon cleat on the mast somewhere, thanks Joe for the cleat idea and thanks Davy for breaking it down for me in detail. Some things I don't mind spending the money on and other things I really do. This one gets to me. But... I really do want to hang a flag. Sigh.

Nobody has a tip for me on the mast support at the bow?

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2012 : 19:45:51

2x4s if you are just trailering. There are lots of nice 2x4 mast crutches that people have created.

I used a second Mast-Up to the front of my trailer which allowed me to set the lowered mast very high over the winter and drape a large tarp with good shape... and walk around under it to work on the boat.

Edited by - pastmember on 08/11/2012 19:47:25

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2012 : 20:49:52

I use plastic decking that clamps over the bow pulpit. It is a little complex to describe and I won't try. The easiest approach is a short 2x4 lashed to the pulpit. Mount a 3-4" piece of 2x4 on to the cross piece on each side of the mast.

Edited by - on

CarbonSink62
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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 04:09:45

In regard to the flag halyard: If the block is on the outboard tip of the stbd spreader and the cleat is on the mast, that means the halyard will run at an angle and not parallel to the mast; I don't think that would look right. It would also make it a little more difficult to go forward on that side. Am I picturing it wrong?

I can see the issue with the cleat that clamps on to the shroud (it would crimp or nick the cable) but it still looks like the way to go.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 05:59:41

Just another word about slugs:

When I first got my boat, my main would raise about 2/3 easily then need the winch. Lowering it, I had to pull it down. Not hard though. One slug was broken.

About the third or fourth trip, another slug broke and wedged itself in the mast column. Luckily, Eddy (eguevara) volunteered to hoist his young son Alex up the mast with a flat tip to free it. I decided to replace all of my slugs.

I ordered a dozen or so [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=45&ParentCat=122"]plastic slugs from Catalina Direct[/url].

They were easy to install. New, they are also very slick. I was really surprised how worn down, old and rough my existing slugs were compared to new. I also have a few left over for spares. I think the standard rig main uses 10 slugs....I think...can't remember for sure.

What an incredible difference the new slugs made! I can now raise the main all the way to the top by hand, quickly....and give it a smart tug to make the luff tight. Dropping it, I just release it and it falls all the way by itself under it's own weight. At $1.49 a slug, they're cheap and easy to replace when needed.

I will replace them all as needed or every couple of years, or if the main becomes more difficult to raise/lower.

PS - I also replaced all of the brass hanks on my jib. The old ones were corroded and notched on the inside...I bet they were the original hanks. Made a big difference in the effort required to raise/lower the jib.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 09:57:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 Just another word about slugs:

When I first got my boat, my main would raise about 2/3 easily then need the winch. Lowering it, I had to pull it down. Not hard though. One slug was broken.

About the third or fourth trip, another slug broke and wedged itself in the mast column. Luckily, Eddy (eguevara) volunteered to hoist his young son Alex up the mast with a flat tip to free it. I decided to replace all of my slugs.

I ordered a dozen or so [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=45&ParentCat=122"]plastic slugs from Catalina Direct[/url].

They were easy to install. New, they are also very slick. I was really surprised how worn down, old and rough my existing slugs were compared to new. I also have a few left over for spares. I think the standard rig main uses 10 slugs....I think...can't remember for sure.

What an incredible difference the new slugs made! I can now raise the main all the way to the top by hand, quickly....and give it a smart tug to make the luff tight. Dropping it, I just release it and it falls all the way by itself under it's own weight. At $1.49 a slug, they're cheap and easy to replace when needed.

I will replace them all as needed or every couple of years, or if the main becomes more difficult to raise/lower.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Joe,

A buddy recently told me a neat trick to keep mainsail slugs cleanly lubricated. Get a white candle and trim it to be able to just be able to be inserted in the slug groove on the rear of the mast. The length of the piece of candle should be just a tiny bit less than the distance between the two slugs on your Main's headboard. Then cut it shorter into two pieces. Insert the top headboard slug, then the two pieces of candle, then the bottom headboard slug followed by all the reast of the main's slugs. The candle wax will lubricate the track and that nice smooth low friction feeling you have with your new slugs will be maintained. Cutting the candle into two pieces allows the shorter pieces to slightly cock as they travel up and down the groove, and makes sure the wax is applied better.

No more stains on the sail from WD40 or silicone, or other lubes, and my 10 year old slugs are as free as brand new ones!

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 16:24:04

Nice tip Chuck.....thanks!

Edited by - on

waterbaby
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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 17:23:56

Hmmm Ken, I was thinking to put the block out about 1 - 2' from the mast on the spreader not all the way out at the end. It will create an angle but should still let the flag fly. ???

Chuck I LOVE your idea with the candles. Thanks!

Edited by - on

putzmeister
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 18:24:17

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 08/12/2012 : 18:46:31

Nicely executed.

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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441 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2012 : 08:02:09

I like the candle idea as well
I made a crutch and pulpit rest out of 2x4s covered with carpet

Edited by - on

waterbaby
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2012 : 17:36:34

Putzmeister - perfect! That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the pics!

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5418 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2012 : 12:36:56

One word of caution about candle wax. Year 1 I used it to lubricate the cabintop slider. Crumbs of wax came off and stuck to the cabin and collected dirt and grime shortly thereafter. May not happen to you. I used some detergent and degreaser to remove it.
I use ivory soap as a dry lubricant now. You have replace it frequently unfortunately. Silicone spray also works, but only for a short time.
I've taken a different approach to a spreader flag pennant. I tied an icicle hitch knot onto the shroud, attached a very small block to the bitter end (the tension end), added a pennant of the correct length and slid the knot up the shroud using my telescoping boat pole. The only cost was for the line and the small block.
This way you can connect the block to the shroud without having to bite into it with a setscrew.
As the name implies, an icicle hitch is a knot that snugs up so tight that it can literally be tied to an icicle and not slip off the pointy end. I've written it up here 2-3 years ago with photos.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2012 : 13:53:50

Scrap the candles... Sailkote is your best bet.

Sten

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2012 : 17:13:12

I'm on Sten's side. Don't "make do", spring for a can of the real thing.

Edited by - on

cat25
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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2012 : 18:06:58

Try elmers slide all a dry lubricant. Works better and longer. Practicial sailor rated elmers slide all as no. 1. Its also cheaper then sailcote.

Edited by - on

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