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MacGreggor calling it quits...

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2013 : 20:10:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 Ditto in the MacGregor family many love sailing the original 17/19/21/24 ft true classic "trailer sailors" <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You forgot the 25 and, a personal favorite, the Venture of Newport 23.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2013 : 21:44:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 You forgot the 25 and, a personal favorite, the Venture of Newport 23.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I did sorta like that Newport 23 cutter--sort of the opposite extreme from the 26M.

Yup--that was from Macgregor!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/28/2013 21:46:11

iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 05:35:39

@ Redviking When the US Constitution was written there were no computers, TVs or telephones, does this mean that the Freedom of speech does not apply on the interwebs, TV or on the phone?

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 06:45:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">@ Redviking When the US Constitution was written there were no computers, TVs or telephones, does this mean that the Freedom of speech does not apply on the interwebs, TV or on the phone?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Shhhhhh, now you've done it......

He's busy writing a response with a quill ink pen, and will send it to you from a hand press......

I do like the look of that cutter...more info?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 08:28:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 ...I do like the look of that cutter...more info?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">[url="http://www.appleseedmac.com/VN23/Welcome_files/shapeimage_7.png"]Venture Newport 23[/url]

I once thought about buying one--the hull was yellow, which is not as pretty but more practical. We decided to go bigger.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/29/2013 08:31:14

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 08:50:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by iwillnotsubmit
 @ Redviking When the US Constitution was written there were no computers, TVs or telephones, does this mean that the Freedom of speech does not apply on the interwebs, TV or on the phone?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not sure, but according to the NRA we should all be entitled to tanks too. Tanks for everyone. Question: If the Japanese Americans had been armed, would they have been able to defend themselves such that they would not be forced to go into internment camps? I think not.

But my Dad was a POW. Guess which country held him in prison for nearly two years? Yep, you guessed it, he was held right here in the US of A because his religious beliefs prohibited killing other people. If only he had a couple of AK47's, with massive clips, he could've defended himself until the inevitable happened and then I wouldn't be here.

Food for thought.

Sten

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 09:32:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Not sure, but according to the NRA we should all be entitled to tanks too. Tanks for everyone.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I see someone has been getting their misinformation directly from that sorry excuse for a journalist on CNN, P.O.S. Morgan.....

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I once thought about buying one--the hull was yellow, which is not as pretty but more practical. We decided to go bigger.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I googled that model and couldn't find any that looked as salty as the photo that you posted.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 09:42:40

The Newport 23 cutter in the pic is very pretty. Expand that same cutter design to a 26 footer and you'd have a great boat.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 11:26:46

In all seriousness... I'd heard the problem with the mcgreggors is the build out was just poorly done as well as poorly designed.

Nothing wrong with a cheep light boat but nobody wants poor craftsmanship.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 11:29:56

I'd really hate for the Cat25/250/Capri25 forums to take towards political discussion as well... It's already soured me on sailnut. I am game for a "politics only" section, but honestly, there are tons of other places for that.

However, I was aware of the Mac M, and the Mac X... even the Mac S... Also I can honestly say that the early Mac M's sailed pretty good, as did the Venture. They were very light, and therefore pretty fast for what they were. Their quality has been bashed for decades... but honestly, so has the Capri's. Here's my take... If a boat still exists after 30 years of USE/ABUSE, it really can't be very poorly built (or it's had a very lucky life). Again I say, there are two Mac 26x in our club, and the owners are great guys, and love to sail as much (or more) than I do. They bought their boats because they wanted an easily launched, easily trailered boat with as much space down below as they could find, that (when the mood strikes them) also can make better than hull speed. While I personally would not want such a beast, I am happy that someone DID make such a boat that could bring someone else to sailing who likely wouldn't be here with out it.

As for MacGregor making that Venture Newport 23... well, Ok... definitely changes my opinion of their design uglies. That's a sexy boat I don't care who you are, and I do like their 24 (again not my choice in boat, but you can't argue its a good sailing boat).

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 12:49:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 I'd really hate for the Cat25/250/Capri25 forums to take towards political discussion as well... It's already soured me on sailnut. I am game for a "politics only" section, but honestly, there are tons of other places for that.o

As for MacGregor making that Venture Newport 23... well, Ok... definitely changes my opinion of their design uglies. That's a sexy boat I don't care who you are, and I do like their 24 (again not my choice in boat, but you can't argue its a good sailing boat).

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry, my bad... Everyone always asks me about my choice of weapons when cruising. I guess you know the answer. 'Tis all good. Our mutual love of sailing and "quality" boats like the C25 supercedes our personal ideas on creating a C25 militia. LOL!

And yes, that is a sexy boat!

Sten

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 12:55:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 In all seriousness... I'd heard the problem with the mcgreggors is the build out was just poorly done as well as poorly designed.

Nothing wrong with a cheep light boat but nobody wants poor craftsmanship.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Building four a day will likely be a cause of that issue.

Ok, while I agree, in fairness, it is pretty incredible that they were able to do that.

Sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 14:35:30

I never saw evidence of a Venture being inadequately engineered or built for their purposes--they just looked a bit crude, with un-trimmed edges and rather light-duty hardware. The V-23 was an exception. Venture 21s have terrorized PHRF fleets for years, and were popular for one-design fleets (cheap, fast, and fun). Well-sailed in the right conditions, they can demolish their ratings. Then Mac went off into the 26 line of "powailboats" and lost me.

Speaking of production efficiency, Hunter went a step further: to roto-molded polyethylene for their smaller boats--almost like stamping them out. The results were also light and tough, if not as inherently stiff as fiberglass. I'm also down on Hunter's rigs in general, based on a couple of things I've seen.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 19:00:27

stinkpotter, if you are refering to the 170, and 140 hunters... boy did THAT bite Hunter. Sister has one, and it's a great sailing boat, but the mast step is brutal, cracking and splitting.

Redviking, as for joining the militia, sign me up! Just purchased a <s>SIG p938</s> pair of Clam cleats.

Edited by - shnool on 02/04/2013 08:05:49

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 20:12:01

OK guys... If you want to see me gone, keep up the gun arguments. I look to this place, at least in part, as a haven from our national pass-time of dissing each other on topics where nobody will ever change anybody's mind, and everyone will raise everyone else's blood pressure. I engage in debates (elsewhere) on the Second Amendment--mostly with people who don't know anything about 18th Century America, the origins of the Bill of Rights, and the people who adopted it,... and it's an unproductive use of my adrenalin.

Guns, abortion, Iraq war, religion,... I'm hoping this is a forum that leaves these and other high-emotion, non-water-based topics to the other no-holds-barred fighting cages on the web.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2013 : 22:17:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 OK guys... If you want to see me gone, keep up the gun arguments. I look to this place, at least in part, as a haven from our national pass-time of dissing each other on topics where nobody will ever change anybody's mind, and everyone will raise everyone else's blood pressure. I engage in debates (elsewhere) on the Second Amendment--mostly with people who don't know anything about 18th Century America, the origins of the Bill of Rights, and the people who adopted it,... and it's an unproductive use of my adrenalin.

Guns, abortion, Iraq war, religion,... I'm hoping this is a forum that leaves these and other high-emotion, non-water-based topics to the other no-holds-barred fighting cages on the web.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, I agree... Sorry, someone ok,.maybe me, commented on the Tampa Bay situation after somehow it came up. I'm sorry. For us cruisers, this is a touchy subject too. Hey, I have one of these WWW.captainforhire.com inserts. That's it. I have been labled an idiot by some and a genius by others. Call it what you will, I started this thread 'cuz I found our MAC was moving on. And I love hijacks and will play too, but my bad. Flick me if you must. But over the years, I have sought to entice you all to drink the lemonade and come cruising. C'mon, the wawa is warm and why are you shoveling snow.

As for the gun pics... Wow dude, sweet. I mean, wow... Now could you please just anchor next to my boat when I can no longer afford Marinas, and protect the heck out of it? Thanks in advance. BTW, I'll be the guy in the zodiac that says escape pod, and I won't be wearing kevlar, so be cool when I come home. Thanks.

Sten

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 04:53:10

Sorry stinkpotter... seriously wasn't taking you into politics... and also, I merely target shoot. I have 32 acres, and we have a generous amount of "critters" that share our property. We have Brittany dogs (small to medium sized dogs), and they don't know when a 300lb bear isn't playing! Also we have 2 horses, and they get rather territorial with their grain/hay... I love wildlife, but I've had no less than 20 encounters in my life where I've had to chase off large animals (or put down rabid ones), and only the loud crack of a gun would do it.

Back to the topic at hand, I think the attitude towards Mac, should be any loss of any sailboat builder (or even this case where Roger is passing along to the kids)... is a sad day. I HOPE the kids take up the baton and create a 22 footer that brings them back to the aforementioned Newport 23, or perhaps the Venture 22. I think the economy at large (or perhaps the less play hours) has dipped into people's abilities to buy into newer sailboats, and bigger ones. Another trailerable by them, that's easy to rig/sail might easily take the forefront of sailboat sales.

I've watched the Left Coast Dart, and their production, and I think they are onto something. Sadly I don't know if the average NEW boat buyer would be into spending $84,000 (present cost) of the 24 foot trailerable (even if the performance rivals a J boat with the accommodations of a Capri 22). I would have thought that the NEW Catalina 22 (basically the Capri Sport 22) would be taking off, but it also doesn't seem to have the draw I'd expect. I guess that makes me pretty much unable to figure out what kind of market for sailboats is out there.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 05:58:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just purchased a SIG p938<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's nice to see that Sig added an ambidextrous safety to the P938, It's the one feature that I didn't care for on the P238..../gun talk.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 08:10:57

I'm not anti-gun, but I am very much anti-off-topic discussions that are tinged with contemporary political implications. This is not a gun forum, or a political forum, or a religion forum. It is a sailing forum. If you guys want to talk guns, go to a gun forum. There are lots of gun forums. If you want to talk Catalina sailing, this is the place.

The people who frequent this forum are from the left and right, they are Americans and foreigners, they undoubtedly include straights and gays, they include right-to-lifers and pro-abortioners. Their beliefs span the political spectrum, but we don't come here to talk about our political beliefs. We come here to talk about Catalina sailing.

If you want to see an example of why we avoid political discussions and references here, you can visit the off-topic forum on Sailnet. There, you'll see sailors casually dropping a politically tinged comment into a discussion, trolling for someone foolish enough to take the bait, and then the discussions go on for page after page, while the participants gratuitously insult each other. That won't contribute to the quality of our discussions here, or to their cordiality.

One very important reason why people are willing to contribute freely to our discussions is because they don't believe they will be attacked here. Political talk drives people away, and we don't want that to happen, because good ideas and useful information about our boats come from people on every part of the political spectrum.

We haven't discussed this "rule" very often, because people have generally restrained themselves from interjecting political and ideological comments. For that reason, some folks, especially more recent members, might not be aware of the rule, or might not appreciate it's importance to the quality of discussion on our forum.

When I referred to it as a "rule," I enclosed the word in parentheses, because it isn't a formal rule. It isn't written anywhere. Through the years, our members have voluntarily restrained themselves from making political comments, and, I believe, because they can see that their self-restraint contributes to the cordiality and the quality of the forum.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 09:58:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 When I referred to it as a "rule," I enclosed the word in parentheses, because it isn't a formal rule. It isn't written anywhere.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Actually, it is. From the [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13520"]Forum Rules[/url]:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">4. Political commentary, personal attacks, posts with profanity and
other off color remarks will be deleted and the offender will be warned.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think it's clear that guns are a huge political issue now, so commentary about, for, and against them are adequately covered by Rule 4.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/30/2013 10:03:08

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 10:33:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 When I referred to it as a "rule," I enclosed the word in parentheses, because it isn't a formal rule. It isn't written anywhere.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Actually, it is. From the [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13520"]Forum Rules[/url]:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">4. Political commentary, personal attacks, posts with profanity and
other off color remarks will be deleted and the offender will be warned.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think it's clear that guns are a huge political issue now, so commentary about, for, and against them are adequately covered by Rule 4.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I stand corrected. I guess someone thought it was important enough to make it a formal rule.

Several years ago, when we first discussed the idea of avoiding political comments, there were, of course, some differences of opinion. Some members enjoyed political chit-chat, as do I, and they opposed the rule. But, there are lots of forums where we can do that. The majority agreed that our forum would be better for avoiding those conversations. It's our forum, and we can make whatever rules please us, but I think most agree now that the rule against political comment has benefited our forum.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 12:41:52

http://vimeo.com/m/15351476

Great movie about some younguns who discovered that old fiberglass boats built for the common man and not the yachtsman do in fact last forever.

Trust me, after we are all long gone, there will still be C25's afloat. And probably a zillion abandoned Macs.

Sten

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 12:55:23

I still say I hope Mac sticks to it, and finds a market. Regardless of their history, I'd hate to see them lose market to, gulp, motorboats. Wait that might be political... sorry.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 13:45:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 I still say I hope Mac sticks to it, and finds a market. Regardless of their history, I'd hate to see them lose market to, gulp, motorboats. Wait that might be political... sorry.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2013 : 19:05:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 ...I'd hate to see them lose market to, gulp, motorboats. Wait that might be political... sorry.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ya, I'm taking personal offense!

...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/30/2013 19:06:30

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