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Netbook,Notebook,Tablet ??

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2013 : 17:08:20

And the graphics card. I have an '08 mini that is being bumped to my grandkids house, minis are great values. For my personal computer I have always spent a little over three grand and over the years that has kept my machines powerful and long lived. My '07 iMac was my first non tower Mac and was the maxed out 24" and this new one is the maxed out 27" . It has the new wifi 802.11 ac standard that I have been waiting for, it will make whole home streaming very fast. Plus this will have a fusion drive which is another watershed technology. (Interim though it may be.)

PS I also have had a second monitor (contiguous desktop), on my Macs ever since my first Se30 so hot video power is important.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 03:50:09

I get it... now you are supposed to ditch your netbook, and get a $3000 iMac.

I supposed if you video edit that rig makes sense.
Yes you guys are right, the Dell Latitude 10 is not $499... it's $399
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-10-tablet/pd

Once again, likely will run your existing software, and fits the original reqs.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 03:59:59

As for a netbook... they are a failed concept that has very little "best use" application in a world of iPads. I have never known a netbook owner who was not filled with regret over not getting pretty much anything else. They sounded brilliant but just don't meet the expectation of a tech savvy consumer. MacBook Air is the king of minimalist portable technology and they will run Windows if you must.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 05:00:05

For the record, I am thrilled with my MSI Wind netbook which I use as an in-cockpit navigation system. The main reason I like it so much is its daylight-viewable matte screen. I have yet to see any tablet that has a screen bright enough for daylight viewing, and the reflections of the highly polished gorilla glass make the problem even worse.

My netbook is now 5 years old, and when it ultimately dies I do not know what I will do to replace it. I hope that tablet screens get brighter and less shiny.

Every device will eventually go obsolete, and netbooks filled a temporary niche for highly portable computing for a couple years before the iPad appeared. If that obsolescence makes it a failed concept, then every device is destined to become a failed concept.

Edited by - on

shnool
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Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 11:54:12

Actually I'd argue that tablets are failed...
honestly I've owned 5 included 2 ipads... and found them lacking any real power, and a keyboard, making them an ergonomic nightmare to use (no matter whose you use)...

I'm with Rick, the netbook was a decent concept... the'd have been more successful if they hadn't been castrated with ATOM processors.

What you are seeing now, and why you LOVE the Macbook Air.. is netbooks and tablets are being replaced with more LOGICAL computers that don't have needless optical drives, called ultrabooks, and have solid state hard drives, but reasonable dual or quad core Intel processors, and decent battery life, while still having OK resolution (720p or better). So in that regard APPLE built the FIRST ultrabook, and charged way too much for it (as per their MO)... now that the rest of the industry has decided it wasn't a bad model (and DVDs and Blurays failed miserably to lower quality video from streaming sources)...

So honestly Paul it sounds like we've come to a consensus, the BEST upgrade to your Netbook is an ultrabook... Now if you find one inexpensive that doesn't have a fruit logo... and can pay about $500 for it, you'll be extremely happy...

Glad we could all agree.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/05/2013 : 08:02:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 Actually I'd argue that tablets are failed...
honestly I've owned 5 included 2 ipads... and found them lacking any real power, and a keyboard, making them an ergonomic nightmare to use (no matter whose you use)...

I'm with Rick, the netbook was a decent concept... the'd have been more successful if they hadn't been castrated with ATOM processors.

What you are seeing now, and why you LOVE the Macbook Air.. is netbooks and tablets are being replaced with more LOGICAL computers that don't have needless optical drives, called ultrabooks, and have solid state hard drives, but reasonable dual or quad core Intel processors, and decent battery life, while still having OK resolution (720p or better). So in that regard APPLE built the FIRST ultrabook, and charged way too much for it (as per their MO)... now that the rest of the industry has decided it wasn't a bad model (and DVDs and Blurays failed miserably to lower quality video from streaming sources)...

So honestly Paul it sounds like we've come to a consensus, the BEST upgrade to your Netbook is an ultrabook... Now if you find one inexpensive that doesn't have a fruit logo... and can pay about $500 for it, you'll be extremely happy...

Glad we could all agree.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OR you can show taste and class (as well as technical sophistication), and buy Apple anytime you can. Apple is far and away the best value in tech if you care about true cost of ownership and quality.

I put an SSD in on old 13" MacBook and it is blistering fast and way cheaper than a new Air.

BTW I posted a couple of large shots on the C25 forum, they fit on my new iMac screen without scrolling. Eat your hearts out peasents.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/05/2013 : 08:42:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 BTW I posted a couple of large shots on the C25 forum, they fit on my new iMac screen without scrolling. Eat your hearts out peasents.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Once again, the one-percent screws things up for us 99 percenters...

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/05/2013 : 09:36:07

I am sorry the privacy glass is up and I can't hear what the Chauffeur is saying.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 14:20:00

Just a quick update. My netbook is now about 6 years old, and the battery needs replacing, so before plunking down for that I had a quick look around for any new low-cost options. As I've said in other posts, I'm really fond of OpenCPN for navigation, and I have my boat set up to transmit GPS and AIS over Bluetooth, so as long as any laptop or tablet has Bluetooth with appropriate drivers to send the NMEA sentences to nav software, I'm good to go. I also like running two instances of OpenCPN side-by-side - one zoomed in and one zoomed out - so I can just watch without having to manipulate the screen. You can do that under Windows, but you can't do that with any iPad, Android, or even a dedicated chartplotter.

I found the [url="http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/268778/ASUS-Transformer-Book-T100TA-B1-GR/"]Asus Transformer Book T100 on sale for $330 at Office Depot[/url] and grabbed it, because everyone is running out of them. It's basically a revival of the old netbook concept with a detachable tablet for the screen. It runs Windows 8.1, so legacy Windows apps work with it, which means OpenCPN can run on it. It's gotten [url="http://techreport.com/review/25537/asus-transformer-book-t100-convertible-notebook-reviewed"]pretty good reviews online[/url], and playing with it in the store, it appears that I can map Bluetooth inputs and outputs to COM ports (which is needed for navigational stuff).

I'm not sure I'll keep it yet (not going to open it for awhile while I do more online research). I'm concerned about the screen brightness for daylight viewability, which was one area where my netbook stands out. But it does have some nice features, like higher res display and longer battery life, so I'll be thinking about it.

If anyone else has used Windows 8 series computers for navigational purposes, perhaps we can compare notes.

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/18/2013 14:25:00

redeye
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 06:25:22

<>

Frank you are a hoot... but thanks for telling us how you make it happen with macs.

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shnool
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 12:50:14

Rick, I don't think the transformer has GPS. But if you are integrating it with your existing GPS I guess that's not a big deal.
Or you can go this route:
http://www.thegpsstore.com/Laptop-Tablet-GPS-C11.aspx

AS for your iMac and resolution? Um sure... now upgrade/replace the screen!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260146

For the record I've been messing with this Dell Wireless dock that uses WiGIG... been using it most of the year...
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=332-1495
I am fairly impressed with the device.

What I'm more impressed with is Dell has released their latest business Latitude ultrabooks, and I got the E7440 in to mess with, and while it's a boring LOOKING laptop, it's got more power packed into it, than anything I've seen to date from any product line. The nice touches are mSATA, but supports a regular 2.5 inch notebook drive as well, USB 3.0, HDMI, Displayport, low power Core i5, 1080p screen, HD webcam (1080p), 802.11, a,b,g,n WiGIG, and Bluetooth, backlit keyboard... all under 4 lbs, in a 14 inch display. It also supports a hard docking station... as well as the wireless dock.

I was skeptical about the uses of WiGIG but I am coming around. Now they need to make a WiGIG card that supports 802.11ac as well.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 13:28:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 Rick, I don't think the transformer has GPS. But if you are integrating it with your existing GPS I guess that's not a big deal.
Or you can go this route:
http://www.thegpsstore.com/Laptop-Tablet-GPS-C11.aspx
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
John - Your are correct, and I should have made that more clear. I actually prefer NOT to have a built-in GPS, because for safety reasons I want to monitor what the GPS puck (Garmin 18x LVC) is feeding into my VHF radio (Standard Horizon GX2150). Occasionally the GPS puck fails to lock in when first turned on (fixed by simply powering down and back up again), and with my configuration I can tell immediately because OpenCPN's boat icon is grey instead of red.

Paul's initial inquiry says that he uses his current netbook for Homeport (which requires Windows) for planning and analyzing GPS data, not for GPS, so he doesn't need internal GPS either. It sounds like he wants a new netbook, and this Asus tablet looks like a nice economical 2-in-1 product for that need.

I've gone back to the store to look at the Asus T100 again, and each time I see it I am more impressed. However, I've decided to return the 32GB version (unopened) and instead order the 64 GB version. Since I think I'm going to like it a lot, there's a greater likelihood that I'll want to install a lot of apps and legacy programs.

Paul - You mentioned that an SD card reader would be a requirement, and I should mention a couple things to you about this if you're interested in this Asus tablet. There's a full-size USB connector on the keyboard that you can use for plugging in the handheld GPS.

On the tablet itself, there's a microUSB port that you should be able to plug in your handheld with the proper cable. There is also microSD slot on the tablet, but not a full-size SD slot, so as long as your Garmin chip is microSD, you should be OK. If the chip is full size SD, you will have to do a workaround by either plugging a full size SD reader into the USB port on the keyboard, or copying your SD card to a microUSB chip. (Garmin has copy protection that prevents you from using copies of their chips in their handhelds, but Homeport appears to work with copied chips in my experience.)

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 12/21/2013 : 05:33:01

Good choice Rick! Having more memory is usually a good thing... and you'll get better GPS externally, than a PUCK or the build in anyway... sounds like you got it covered. I think the transformer is a pretty slick tablet. Stepson has one (prior model)... he loves it... replaced his ipad2 with it.

as for the microSD, they sell/make adapters to turn them into full SD (likes into it like a sleeve)... they actually sell free with most of of the microSD cards.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/21/2013 : 07:38:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 Good choice Rick! Having more memory is usually a good thing... and you'll get better GPS externally, than a PUCK or the build in anyway... sounds like you got it covered. I think the transformer is a pretty slick tablet. Stepson has one (prior model)... he loves it... replaced his ipad2 with it.

as for the microSD, they sell/make adapters to turn them into full SD (likes into it like a sleeve)... they actually sell free with most of of the microSD cards.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah, I'm pretty excited about this. Looks like a fun little toy. The build quality isn't quite as good as Asus's prior models (plastic backing on the tablet instead of metal), but they were targeting a more aggressive price point with this one.

I know that Windows 8 has been pretty widely panned by some in the past year, but I think the idea of a tablet that can also run a full computer OS is a pretty good one. I'm hoping that Microsoft can break the Apple/Android duopoly.

I've got a bunch of the microSD adapters that you describe. I saw the demise of full size SD coming, so I've only purchased micro/adapter combinations even when I needed full size. But this tablet only has a micro slot, so those adapters will not fit in it. If you have a fill size Garmin SD card, you would need to copy it onto a micro card. I think this will work with Homeport software (it works with a copy of my Eastern Caribbean chip), but that copied chip will NOT work in a Garmin handheld because the device senses the chip's serial number as copy protection. If all else fails, you can plug the handheld into the computer and Homeport will read the chip (and any permanently embedded charts) from the device. I know that Garmin has been shipping microSD chips for awhile, but not sure if older chips for full-size chartplotters might have been full size SD.

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/25/2013 07:30:20

britinusa
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Response Posted - 12/25/2013 : 07:20:55

Made the choice, and the Forum's help was a big part of that.
Peggy is now on a steep learning curve going from Windows XP to Windows 8 on a touchscreen.

My initial review is that it's designed for people that play games
... one needs to figure out how to get around the W8 caverns!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Will report on progress as it get's loaded up. We went with the 64GB version.

Paul

Edited by - on

shnool
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Response Posted - 12/25/2013 : 07:31:21

Paul do yourself a HUGE favor... upgrade to 8.1 right away!
the start button comes back, and it's easier to tweak to make windows boot right to the desktop like you are familiar..

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/why-can-t-find-update-store
it's usually a wsreset.exe that fixes it not showing in the store.

PCWorld is pretty useless, but they get you to the screen that allows you to make the most configuration changes once you are updated to 8.1... most of it under the start menu screen options... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043243/how-to-boot-to-desktop-mode-in-windows-8-1.html

I just upgraded my wife's work laptop from windows 7 Ultimate, to windows 8.1 pro... she's gotten the newest latitude 7440 which has all the ultrabook stuff I was amazed with in my 6430u, but also has the traditional hard dock... If you are a notebook only type (she's a programmer), it's a pretty smooth laptop (and quick). I think Windows 8 got a bad rap. I hate the interface at times myself, but with (like every version of windows) tweaking, it's almost usable ;) We have no choice at the office but to stick with winders... but that tide is slowly changing (my wife programs in Visual Foxpro and .Net), we have an additional developer who does Java, and Perl. I'm just the lazy IT Manager.

Anyway, I hope you guys like the devices! Merry Christmas as well!

Edited by - shnool on 12/25/2013 07:35:06

britinusa
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Response Posted - 12/25/2013 : 13:52:51

Thanks John.
Your prompt caused me to scout around the system. It's already Win8.1 but has '20 important updates' to install.

I would not expect a newbie to figure out how to get there.

Next it's time for Peggy to install and run Homeport.

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/28/2013 : 11:33:06

Paul,

I've played with that tablet at several stores, and it competes favorably with others that cost twice as much. I think you're going to love it.

My 64GB version is still on order & I think I'm going to cancel. Daylight viewability is important to me, and none of the tablets is nearly as bright as my netbook. I think they intentionally limit brightness to maximize battery life. My son has barely used his 2 year old netbook, so I'll buy that otne off him if mine fails.

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/28/2013 11:35:31

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/29/2013 : 16:21:03

...On the other hand, the thought of running OpenCPN in portrait mode on a tablet with a vertical resolution of 1366 or even 1920 pixels sounds really appealing. I could easily see AIS targets approaching from 5 miles away, without any zooming in or out. It's so tempting, and a nice safety feature in my busy river.

I built a portable version of OpenCPN on microSD card, and launched it on some of the tablets in the store, and it is an absolute KILLER display that puts every commercial chartplotter to shame. The only issue with tablets continues to be screen brightness, which is critical since I will always have this in the cockpit with me, mounted at the binnacle.

It looks like there is going to a flood of Windows 8.1 tablets appearing over the next several months, so I'm going to keep my eye out and look at the reviews of the screen brightness. (laptopmag.com measures and reports brightness in thier reviews.) If I find one that's close to my netbook, I'll probably take the plunge.

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 12/30/2013 : 02:23:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 ...On the other hand, the thought of running OpenCPN in portrait mode on a tablet with a vertical resolution of 1366 or even 1920 pixels sounds really appealing. I could easily see AIS targets approaching from 5 miles away, without any zooming in or out. It's so tempting, and a nice safety feature in my busy river.

I built a portable version of OpenCPN on microSD card, and launched it on some of the tablets in the store, and it is an absolute KILLER display that puts every commercial chartplotter to shame. The only issue with tablets continues to be screen brightness, which is critical since I will always have this in the cockpit with me, mounted at the binnacle.

It looks like there is going to a flood of Windows 8.1 tablets appearing over the next several months, so I'm going to keep my eye out and look at the reviews of the screen brightness. (laptopmag.com measures and reports brightness in thier reviews.) If I find one that's close to my netbook, I'll probably take the plunge.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Keep us in the loop, I'd like to have something like this in the cockpit also.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/30/2013 : 06:45:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Keep us in the loop, I'd like to have something like this in the cockpit also.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
One thing to keep in mind is that many of the current Win8 tablets lack a GPS chip, and those that have them have reported some difficulty picking up the GPS data in legacy Windows software. (Apparently Microsoft's API for GPS is designed for Win8 "apps" but not for "programs".)

This does not affect me because my GPS is permanently interfaced with my VHF radio, and I tapped a Bluetooth transmitter into the wire, so the GPS is part of my boat and can be picked up if the tablet has a Bluetooth receiver. So if/when you see me rave here about tablets making great chartplotters, you need to keep this in mind if I forget to mention it in the future.

I've read on the Internet (so it must be true

) that component manufacturers generally put GPS chips on wireless networking cards, which is why the tablets (like the iPad) will have GPS on their wireless (4G/3G) versions, but not on their WiFi-only versions. Most of the Win8 tablets appearing now are WiFi only.

Until GPS-enabled Win8 tablets appear, GPS could be supplied by purchasing an inexpensive Globalsat GPS (either USB dongle or Bluetooth transmitter). For those who are up for the challenge, I still think that a serial dongle hard-wired to the VHF is the safest alternative, and then you can tap into that with a serial-USB or serial-Bluetooth converter. You need reliable GPS for the red "distress" button to work, and hardwiring it directly is as reliable as you can get.

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/30/2013 06:55:32

britinusa
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Response Posted - 12/30/2013 : 08:52:39

OK Rick, I'll be the first to bite!

So... do you have any illustrations of how you added the blue tooth widget to your 'boat'?

If so.... postem! please!

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/30/2013 : 15:57:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 OK Rick, I'll be the first to bite!

So... do you have any illustrations of how you added the blue tooth widget to your 'boat'?

If so.... postem! please!

Paul

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Paul,

It was described in a Mainsheet article 2 1/2 years ago, but was pretty heavily edited. My setup is more complicated than you need because I also chose to have a second Bluetooth transmitter to send AIS out of my radio. This gives me GPS and AIS displayed on a NOAA marine chart in OpenCPN.

For the GPS only, you basically connect a serial NMEA GPS dongle to appropriate wires on any DSC radio (I used Garmin 18x LVC, but cheaper ones may be available from China). You also need 12v power for the dongle. Then you just tap into those data wires to either a serial-USB converter or serial-Bluetooth converter (NMEA 0183 specs allow tapping up to three receivers off one transmitter). You need 5V supply to drive the converters - a USB adapter will get it off of USB; you need a step-down from 12v to 5v for the Bluetooth converter. For 5v step-down, I just spliced a 12v socket into my boat (back behind the DC panel), plugged a USB power adapter into it, and then plugged a USB pigtail into that.

I decided it would be much easier to pre-wire everything outside the boat, so I built a bus-box from a Radio Shack surface mount box, and used RJ-45 sockets/plugs and DB-9 sockets.

The best online writeup is [url="http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electronics/71615-sending-gx2150-ais-nmea-data-chart-plotter-over-bluetooth.html#post699309"]here on Sailnet[/url]. That shows a schematic with wire assignments, and a picture of the bus-box. Like I said, you can simplify this quite a bit if you're not doing the AIS part.

I also decided to send autopilot signals out of the netbook via Bluetooth to my Autopilot, and it's simpler of you don't do that either.

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/30/2013 15:58:03

glivs
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Response Posted - 12/31/2013 : 10:02:39

Rick...where did you locate your GPS antenna?

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/31/2013 : 10:48:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glivs
 Rick...where did you locate your GPS antenna?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I located the puck above the radio, inside the void space between the ceiling liner and the starboard coaming. I have had no problem getting reliable fixes through the fiberglass.

Most of the wiring shown below has been hidden after I made the installation permanent:
<center>

</center>

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/31/2013 12:04:47

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