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Outboard motor bracket

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RoofRoof
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USA
186 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/20/2003 : 22:38:31

Mr. Bristol please help. Others with experience too.

I am replacing the motor bracket on my C25 sk tr. I have a new Honda 8hp, 4 stroke, XL shaft motor. I believe it weighs 108lbs.

First of all, the Fulton extension channels that Dave Bristol mentioned are no longer available. Fulton discontinued them, and have none in their warehouse. So, I'll head off to a boat trailer manufactur and look for some scrap C-channel pieces that I can fabricate.

Now, the real question. The motor brackets I'm considering Garelick 71044 has the 14 1/2" vertical travel I'd like, and is rated for 135lbs or 155lbs depending on the source of info. There are other brackets that might work, that say they are rated at 115lbs and 118lbs.

Also, Garelick has a new offshore bracket 71091 that has 15 1/2" travel and rated at 175lbs.

My little 108lb motor....will I have to stand on it to get it in the water with one of these higher rated brackets? Any experience? How will my little chickie ever be able to handle the motor?

Also, should the extension C-channels set back 3 inches, 4 inches, or 5 inches from the transom?

Please help. I want to get started on this project ASAP!

RoofRoof

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2003 : 02:55:04

I cannot answer all your questions. I can only say that the bracket offered by Catalina is the one that I put on my boat when I went to a Yamaha 9.9 four stroke back in '85. It has held up beautifully, has a good amount of travel, and has some helps in lifting the motor. I recommend it highly. I think Catalina Direct handles this bracket. Check it out!

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2003 : 08:45:30

When I installed a Fulton bracket on "Quiet Time", I used a 3" thick block of polyethylene to offset the bracket from the transom, this was needed to allow the motor to be tilted. If you are going to use aluminum channel, try the 4" size, that sounds like it would be enough. Try to test the installation before you drill holes in the boat. What I mean is to somehow hold the whole assembly of motor and bracket and extention channels up against the boat with the motor both tilted and vertical, to see if the 4" of offset is actually enough, or if you will need more (or less) than 4".

A bracket that has more travel built-in, say 17" if there is any such thing, would likely work fine by itself without the need for the extension channels

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2003 : 16:56:27

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...somehow hold the whole assembly of motor and bracket and extention channels up against the boat with the motor both tilted and vertical, to see if the 4" of offset is actually enough, or if you will need more (or less) than 4".
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I'm trying to picture this... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Alan: Garelick specifically told me that the 70144 was not for high-thrust 4-strokes. I suspect the set of flat bars it rides up and down on don't have enough lateral strength. The 71091 is new to me--the 71090 had only about 9" travel, so I passed it up.

The Fulton 1810 should be blocked out at least 3" to make the Honda (and the bracket itself) clear everything. I'm a little worried about why they discontinued the 5" channels I bought... They seem like pieces of the George Washington Bridge. If I were trying to solve that problem now, I'd probably stack some 1" pieces of Starboard to get the thickness I needed.

On a price-performance basis, I'd probably take a hard look at the updated Garhauer bracket--the one Catalina Direct sells. It may not need any spacers, but I'd put a sheet of 1/2" Starboard under it in any case (I love that stuff!), just to spread the load on the exterior fiberglass.

Whatever you do, take a lot of measurements to figure out the vertical position that puts your prop deep enough in the water but allows it to clear the water at the first tilt position with the bracket up. Then estimate the position of the motor's tiller handle relative to the sternrail in the up-and-tilted position.

Best of luck--you'll love that Honda!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/21/2003 17:44:06

Edited by - on

Shelby
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155 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2003 : 17:24:47

I have the Garelick 71090 and it works ok for my Honda 9.9 4 stroke. Of course I'm on a inland lake and don't have the same concerns as a number of other folks would have with the 9" travel. My biggest issue so far has been the tightness of the springs and how hard it is to push it down and pull it up out of the water. This can probably be fixed with some lub.

Shelby
'82 C25 "Third S", #3208,SKSR,Honda 9.9, Lake Pleasant, AZ
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df08b3127cce944970aa072e0000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Shelby
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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2003 : 17:34:40

A few Pictures...you can see the alum extensions...can't remember the size.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc00b3127cce94e367f5d61f0000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc00b3127cce94e367ac57760000001610" border=0>

Shelby
'82 C25 "Third S", #3208,SKSR,Honda 9.9, Lake Pleasant, AZ
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df08b3127cce944970aa072e0000002010" border=0>

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RoofRoof
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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2003 : 11:16:09

I have the answer! Well, I ordered the Garehauer bracket from Catalina Direct. I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds PERFECT!

It has been upgraded several times over the years. It has 17 1/4" vertical travel. Made of tubular steel, so should be much stronger than flat metal made brackets.

Hopefully, the 17 1/4" travel might even eliminate the need to set the bracket back from the transom. Or at least not as much. I'll keep you posted.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2003 : 19:13:15

I just installed one of the Garhaur brackets from Catalina Direct. The travel is great, but the springs suck. I have a new 8 hp Honda super long shaft high thrust electric start. Weighs about 110 lbs.

I am 6'2" 190 lbs and work out in the gym 3 to 4 times a week and could barely lift the motor. If you aren't strong, or have a bad back you will have problems with lifting the motor. I have one of these brackets on my C22 with a 57 lb Nissan 4 stroke 6 hp AND THE SPRINGS WONT LIFT IT EITHER.

I just got off the phone with Lindsey at Catalina Direct and she says that Lowell is working with Garhaur to see what they can do about getting some kind of hydraulic lift for the bracket. I hope they work something out.

Garelick just came out with a new bracket with more travel. I saw it in the new 2003 West catalog. I don't have my catalog in front of me but it is rated for a 175 lb motor, so you will have to push it down. It has about 15" travel, but is about 350 bucks. YIKES
Check out your new catalog

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2003 : 19:16:13

OOPS

I forgot to mention that when I installed my new Garhaur bracket for my Honda 8 I used a piece of 2 x 12 to hold the bracket out as the Honda is HUGE. Looks really lousy. Gotta make some kind of tubular aluminum bracket for it.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 11:02:32

I spoke with Catalina Direct to see if I could order another set of springs for the Garhauer bracket. NOPE. Then, I called Garhauer and spoke to someone there who thought that the guy with the problem lifting the motor had an older bracket with only 1 spring, and the newer bracket had 2 springs. Since the post said that he JUST installed the bracket, we assumed he had the newer bracket and that even with 2 springs....still not effective. The guy at garhauer said he'd do some more research, and look into the possibility of adding more springs, maybe a hydraulic lift, etc. If he doesn't come back with a solution, I'll go to my local auto parts store and find a hydraulic lift for a car hatchback or something and fashion my own.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 15:12:30

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...If he doesn't come back with a solution, I'll go to my local auto parts store and find a hydraulic lift for a car hatchback or something and fashion my own.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
If you do, Alan, we'll want detailed pictures! <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 17:59:02

Why not just add a couple springs.

Two coil springs with the hooks at each end, four hose clamps. Attach the springs using the hose clamps to the top bar closest to, and parallel with the transom and the other end to the bottom bar closest to the outboard motor mounting plate. Makes a big difference lifting that outboard, AND it's cheap.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 19:03:38

I'm the guy who just installed the new Garhaur bracket. It has 2 springs. Not worth a darn in lifting a new Honda. Every time I had to lift it I had to pump myself up first, kind of like when you are going for a maximum lift on the bench press (you gym rats know what I mean)

When I did lift it I would bellow out before and after the lift "I am the master of MR MOTO" I know, I know, kinda stupid, but it helped to get a good pump going. I'm still young at 51 years so that's my excuse.

I would like to know who "Roof Roof" talked to at Garhaur as I would like to talk to him too. He needs to know, If he cares, that his product is woefully inadequate. Heck, it wont even pick up my 57 lb Nissan. And they say it is good for 120 lbs. BS

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 19:48:52

Bad news... <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

Roof and Frank: At least one person on this forum has rigged a block and tackle from the bracket to the stern rail to lift the bracket. I don't know what he/they did to hold the handle in the "release" position while pulling it up with the tackle. But it's worth thinking about.

FWIW, my Fulton almost (but not quite) lifts the 108# Honda by itself. I suspect one advantage is that, with only 13" travel (as I recall), it has shorter arms and therefore the motor has less leverage.

Note to all: The weight rating on a bracket is not an indication of what its springs will counterbalance--it's an indication of what it can safely hold in the raised and lowered position, with some stresses from pounding waves or maybe even a bouncing trailer.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear about the Garhauer--we need a good solution. But if anybody can come up with a good solution for a reasonable price, I'd bet on them. See what they'll do for you.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 02/28/2003 22:11:42

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John Mason
Admiral

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687 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 20:06:52

I know it has two springs. I'm saying add two more springs. It needs it.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2003 : 18:04:49

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'll go to my local auto parts store and find a hydraulic lift for a car hatchback or something and fashion my own.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I have the hydraulic assist bracket manufactured by Bombardier Johnson/Evinrude (former OMC.) It raises my 9.9 Yamaha four-stroke 2/3s of the vertical travel with no user assistance and I can raise it the last 1/3 with two fingers.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2003 : 18:57:50

Hey OJ

Could you tell me more about your hydraulic assist bracket?

Did you retro fit it to your existing bracket, or did you have to use one of their brackets? Where did you get it?

Thanks a bunch

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

KTwomey
1st Mate

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USA
43 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2003 : 20:37:29

My wife could not raise the motor (8hp Honda) when we had the motor bracket with the springs so I replaced it with the OMC model with the hydraulic cylinder and now it raises with two fingers. The plate on the bracket says it's rated for 15 hp motors (not for any specific amount of weight).

It is mounted on its own bracket and I had to drill new holes in the transom.

Dont know if they still make them. I got mine used from a friend of a friend.

Ken Twomey
AKUNA MATADA
C25 SK/SR
Folsom, CA

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2003 : 20:46:37

Garelick also has a FULLY remote controlled electric/hydraulic bracket. Be prepared for sticker shock. About $1,200 (+ -) last time I looked... I think it was at Cabelas...

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2003 : 14:09:15

I have just spent some phone time on my day off talking with the folks at Garhaur and Garelick.

As previously discussed the Garelick Model 71090 bracket will not drop below horizontal, and therefore not really good for our use. The receptionist at Garelick wouldn't let me talk with anybody but herself. She only put me on hold while she talked with someone else to answer my questions. She did fax me a drawing which shows the range of motion on their brackets. I requested to talk with one of their people in their technical dept and she refused. I was not impressed.

As previously discussed the Garhaur bracket, available direct, or from Catalina direct has great range of motion, but will not raise the Honda. I talked with their receptionist, who had one of their tech guys call me. We discussed it and he suggested a block and tackle and I told him that is a poor solution. I also told him that their website is misleading in telling folks that their bracket is good for 120 lbs. He said that he knows it is misleading. After this nowhere conversation he had the owner of Garhaur call me and we did have a productive conversation. He knows that their springs wouldn't lift a Honda but he is concerned with the liability of adding larger springs, and what would happen if someone tries to raise the bracket without a motor on it and they get hurt. I pointed out that he has that liability now, even with weaker springs. I suggested that he adds a disclaimer to his product to tell folks to not operate bracket without engine mounted. He thought it was a good suggestion, at least it shows an attempt to help folks not to get hurt. We discussed the Garelick bracket and how their springs are so strong that you actually have to push the bracket down. He said that he will look into stronger springs and get back to me in a few days. At least he is sympathetic to our problem, and is trying to come up with a solution.

Quite a difference in corporate philosophies of dealing with an unhappy customer.

In the meantime, it is a bear to lift Mr. Moto.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2003 : 14:53:58

Frank: I suspected the Garhauer folks might at least try to come up with something... Garelick has been "remote" for me, as well.

I suspect there is another factor: If the bracket drops substantially below horizontal, the force to begin raising it is outward (away from the transom) as well as upward. That means you sort of have to push out as you pull up--a rather difficult thing to do unless you're behind the boat! If the bracket only goes to horizontal, then you only pull up and in to raise it. This very likely explains Garelick's design.

Unfortunately, if I am right, that means a block and tackle from the stern rail will also have difficulty, since it will pull inward.

I can tell you that without a motor on it, my Fulton is downright dangerous in the down position. To raise the bracket after removing the motor, I stand on a stepladder, hang on the mounting board with one arm, and then release the handle with the other, and it almost lifts me off the ladder! Fears of customers hurting themselves are well founded. But as you say, that'd be true with weaker springs.

How about the Garelick (that bad word) 71091? It sounds like a brute. Can you find out what weight would exactly counter its springs? (I doubt that the answer is 175#.) If the motor requires a little push to lower, that's easier than pulling it up. And have you checked with a Johnson/Evinrude/Bombardier dealer about the gas assist bracket? I've seen one, but the dealers around here couldn't find anything about it a couple of years ago.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/03/2003 : 17:45:50

as far as forces go, the springs work in a radial manner to impart moment to the lever arm (bracket) With this in mind, it doesn't matter what position the motor is in. Both Garelick and Garhaur have springs to impart this force. Garhaur just needs stronger springs. I noticed a lot of disclaimers on the sticker on the Garlick bracket, including the admonition to only use the bracket with a motor on it.

The local OMC dealers only know about Billy Bob's bass boat, and aren't much help to me.

I'll keep you posted on my progress. Maybe this is my mission in life.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/03/2003 : 20:12:00

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Did you retro fit it to your existing bracket, or did you have to use one of their brackets? Where did you get it?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The hydraulic assist bracket that was originally produced by OMC (now Bombardier Johnson/Evinrude) was designed from scratch. It's a very attractive, functional and well thought out unit. The original model was designed for ~80 lbs. and they later came out with a second model rated for ~125 lbs.. It's ideal for sailboat transoms. If I had more time I'd get a picture of mine. Someone here posted a picture of one several moons ago.
As for where to purchase, you'd have to call Johnson/Evinrude for a part number and dealers. See the Bombardier web site - they've never done a very good job marketing this unit and I can't understand why it's not in their online catalog - least not the last time I looked. I think they've overlooked a real niche.
Well worth the time to explore compared to all the fire drills you're going through with Garhauer and Garlick.
Good luck.

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
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Response Posted - 03/04/2003 : 14:18:46

Gloss, who at Garhauer did you speak with? I should have gotten the tech guy's name I spoke with....but didn't.

I'd like to get a follow up on this ASAP. My new Garhauer bracket came in yesterday from Catalina Direct, and I'm jones'n to install something.

If you have any feedback or a name, please pass it along.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/04/2003 : 19:19:04

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Gloss, who at Garhauer did you speak with? I should have gotten the tech guy's name I spoke with....but didn't.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The number one person at Garhauer is Guido.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2003 : 20:05:02

I might be the person mentioned who rigged a tackle, as I have a bad back (stenosis and spondylisthesis, as if I really knew what that is) and raising the motor was not a happy moment. This, I think , the third boat have done this. The other two, the handle tripped out toward the transom so the tackle line automatically put the bracket in the right posistion. This time, on the original C25 bracket, I have to lean over and trip the handle out---BUT as soon as the tackle starts to create lift, thats easy to do (relatively speaking). The blocks were junk blocks from the ageold dittybag, one an ancient british large and small twoblock item, maybe from a smallboat vang, the other a single block with becket, I think (will take a look)and as I recall I get a three part purchase at the motor and pull down from the stern rail to activate. In the up position The bracket holds the motor upright and the tail of the tackle is tied off to the sternrail stanchion as a safety measure. My motor is only a 20" so it can remain upright with the prop just out of water if all hands are off the boat.Cheap and effective. Godspeed Ron #2343 srsk Orion SW FL

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