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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Bottom Paint---VC17

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weluvlife
Navigator

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166 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/18/2003 : 04:00:46

Hello,

A member of our small sailing club just put his boat back in the water after redoing his bottom with VC17, a teflon based paint.
I used to sail past him easily. Not anymore! Sunday we went out, and even though I thought his sails were not set well, and secretly I think I'm a better sailor..........he wooped me! :) This sailor owns my old boat. It is amazing what a difference this paint makes!

I'll be pulling my boat this spring to change my bottom paint over:)
Just thought I'd share this with the group.

Mark Eichman
Lake Don Pedro,CA
www.lakedonpedrosailingclub.org
'86 c25 TR, SK

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 06:34:27

All the racers in my club use this paint.
I was wondering how this would work for someone who trailer sails for 5 months, and keeps his boat in the water for 7 months. We get green slime, and red mud stains from our lake.
Thanks

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 08:53:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A member of our small sailing club just put his boat back in the water after redoing his bottom with VC17...It is amazing what a difference this paint makes!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm a firm believer in VC-17m.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 09:38:01

VC17 is very fast. Trilux 33 (not to be confused with Trilux II) is a hard finish Teflon paint that is also very fast (and expensive; about $190. gal.). Trilux 33 has Biolux, which controls algae very well. Many racers at my lake changed from VC17 to Trilux 33 because we have a major algae problem, and Biolux really alleviates it. On the boat, Trilux 33 doesn't look as silky smooth as VC17, but it is clearly very fast, and it remained very fast last season even when I neglected to scrub it before a race. I heard that the manufacturer started adding a biocide to VC17 last year, and that it might be as effective as Biolux. If so, I might change over to VC17 after I use up the rest of my Trilux 33. I suspect that VC17 is faster than Trilux 33, solely because it looks smoother, but I wouldn't swear by it.

In any event, if you have an algae problem, make sure your bottom paint has a good biocide.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 10:55:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I heard that the manufacturer started adding a biocide to VC17 last year, and that it might be as effective as Biolux. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The biocide they added to VC-17m Extra was indeed Biolux and I was very pleased with its performance this past season.

Here's the link.

[url="http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/"]Interlux Yacht Paint[/url]

Edited by - on

nate
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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 12:15:55

Another vote for the VC17...I hauled out this summer to do the bottom job and a few dozen other chores. I applied a couple fresh coats of VC17 after some sanding and have been pleased with the results. It is amazing what a slippery bottom can do...a boat bottom that is!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 15:20:24

I'm a long time user and believer in VC17 . . . after a couple of pull-outs I discovered you can remove lake matter with a garden hose - as opposed to a pressure washer which removes the paint.
I also like applying it with the Wagner Power Painter using the flexible extension tip.

Edited by - OJ on 11/18/2003 15:24:11

WGriswold
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 19:13:58

Hello,

I need to apply bottom paint next spring. Is VC17 or Trilux 33 or both suitable for a boat that is out of the water for 6 months a year? Has anyone painted the bottom with the boat on the trailer? It seems that I might be able to jack the boat up a little in the front (after painting back to the rollers) and drop the forward rollers and paint above them and then repeat the process in the back. What do you all think?

Wait Griswold
South Lake Tahoe

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 19:51:32

I'm afraid that VC 17 does have a downside.

You have 30 days max to get it in the water after painting. Not suitable for prolonged dry storage.

As far as trailerable stuff... the new CSC Micron Ultra is (IMHO) 'faster' than the older formulations... but doesn't come anywhere near the smoothness of VC 17.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 20:10:10

I always wondered what really happens if you exceed that magic 30 days period when the paint (VC 17) is out of the water. I'm sure you lose some effectiveness against barnacles, but I'm wondering what happens with slime protection. I don't think any paint works on red clay mud staining.
I just don't like how an ablative paint like Micron Extra rubs off so easily. Yes I know it's supposed to do that.
anybody out there let VC 17 sit out too long?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 20:50:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by WGriswold
 Hello,

Has anyone painted the bottom with the boat on the trailer? It seems that I might be able to jack the boat up a little in the front (after painting back to the rollers) and drop the forward rollers and paint above them and then repeat the process in the back. What do you all think?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wait, I winch the bow tightly into the V-block and block the trailer wheels. I took a house post-jack and cut it down - place a block of wood (2x4x24") under the rear fin-keel, raise the hull just enough to take tension off the roller rack, then drop one rack at a time. After the rear is back together, use the same procedure for the front racks - placing the wood block under a bulkhead. I use a bottle jack to raise the racks back into position.
Good luck and becareful.

Edited by - OJ on 11/19/2003 15:17:27

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 21:37:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You have 30 days max to get it in the water after painting. Not suitable for prolonged dry storage.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I always wondered what really happens if you exceed that magic 30 days period when the paint (VC 17) is out of the water.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know a fellow sailor who for years has been putting on a fresh coat of VC-17m...every other year with no apparent problems. His routine is...paint the hull then six months in the water, six months out, six months in, six months out, repaint.

I know of another sailor who recoats his VC-17 when he hauls out at the end of the season, again with no apparent problems.

Edited by - dlucier on 11/18/2003 21:40:00

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 21:41:42

"out at the end of the season, again with no apparent problems."

Don.. Freshwater or Saltwater ?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 21:46:12

Zebra mussel infested Lake Erie.

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 23:14:26

When I painted mt bottom this summer, I borrowed a friends jack stands. I found the regular jack stands were too tall to be used with the boat on the trailer but he loaned me one short one and that worked great. I put the pad of the JS under between the two roller arms and jacked up the boat until I was able to pull out the bolt and drop the whole arm down out of the way. After putting a couple coats of paint on...VC17 dries in about 4.2 seconds in the Vegas heat...I would wrestle the arm back up into position and and move on to the next set of rollers. This was a little labor intensive but worked great and I've even considered buying a single, short jackstand for future bottom painting. Good luck and be safe.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 09:14:37

The easiest way to paint under the trailer rollers is to put about one foot of slack in the winch cable and safety chain and lower the bar that supports the keel. Then put the tow vehicle in forward gear and step on the gas, letting the boat roll back. If it doesn't roll back far enough to paint under the rollers, let out more cable and step on the gas again. After the paint dries, winch the boat forward again and raise the keel support. Be sure your winch cable and bow eye are in good condition.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 10:01:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">After putting a couple coats of paint on...VC17 dries in about 4.2 seconds in the Vegas heat...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Last spring a first time sailboat owner was at the boatyard painting his newly aquired C30 with VC-17 and when it looked like he was taking a break, I walked over to chit-chat with him. I asked him how the painting was coming along and he said, "Oh, not too bad considering this is my first time with VC-17, but I think I underestimated the amount of paint that I needed".

As we were talking, I noticed a whole bunch of empty cans of VC-17 laying about, yet only a relatively small portion of the hull had been painted. I then noticed he was using a regular full size house paint roller to apply the paint. I offered that VC-17 evaporates like the devil and that he was losing a large portion of his paint to the air using the house roller and also by pouring the entire can of paint into the pan at once.

Because of its high evaporation rate, I use a small sponge roller to apply the paint and, after pouring a small amount of paint into the tray, I replace the lid on the can to further lessen evaporation. Using this technique results in less $$$ going up in thin air.

Edited by - on

Champipple
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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 11:04:11

For most racing applications, VC-17 is the norm in this area. We just re-did the evelyn with Baltoplate this past year.... It is considered to be the top of the line racing paint. It is also a Pain in the behind to use and I wouldn't recommend baltoplate to anyone but the serious racer. Wetsanded with about 600 grit to a hard smooth shine after each coat.... It takes a lot of patience, but is well worth it.

dw

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 11:54:04

I JUST last summer completed a barrier coat job (by jacking the boat and blocking it up/removing roller arms, etc.). Because I usually take my boat out of the water in winter and trailer a bit in the summer to the San Juan Islands, I went again with a copolymer. I have been able to be competitive with the V-17 guys thus far. Now, with talk of a Nationals in our area, I am wondering about VC-17. I will have to remove all of the ablative, right?

I may let everyone else have an advantage....I don't know if I can bring myself to remove 2 coats of paint in order to re-finish with the Teflon stuff!

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

WGriswold
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 14:52:53

Thanks everyone. I think this is something that I can do. I would jack up the boat slightly and then brace the hull before lowering the rollers. I think that I have an abalative on the botton now. It is at least 15 years old (I sail in Lake Tahoe) and until this year it performed satisfactorily. When it was new it was easy to get black on the sponge when cleaning the hull. It no longer comes off and has worn down to the fiberglass in spots. Even now if I brush the bottom 2x a season it works ok, but I want to trailer to the San Juans and I am sure that several weeks in salt water would be a big problem.

Wait Griswold
C25, Lake Tahoe

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 15:21:20

Wait,
Have you verified that you do not have hull blisters? If not, you should have a contingency plan . . .

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WGriswold
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 15:34:14

I don't see or feel any blisters. The bottom paint is so thin that I think that I would see them if there were any. My 1986 boat has the special coating that Catalina started applying in 1986 to prevent blisters and it seems to work. I think that spending 6 mos. a year on the trailer allows the hull to dry out and helps to prevent blisters. If I can't see any blisters can I just clean the hull and apply the new botton paint?

Wait

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 21:18:09

Do you have to remove all the old ablative paint prior to applying the VC-17? Is there a Primer coat?
just wondering for my next haul out,
Steve

Edited by - ssteakley on 11/19/2003 21:19:58

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 21:31:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do you have to remove all the old ablative paint prior to applying the VC-17?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes it needs to be removed. The only thing you can overcoat with VC-17 is VC-17.

For more info check out this [url="http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa//boat_painting_guide/pages/p37compat.htm"]Interlux Paint Compatibility Chart[/url]

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 21:51:10

Note: VC 17 is NOT recommended for high-fouling saltwater areas.

... VC17 m Extra with Biolux is a high-performance, thin-film anti-fouling...
... in freshwater and low-fouling saltwater. ...

VC Offshore is the 'big brother' of VC-17 for saltwater.

That said, a couple weeks in Puget Sound shouldn't be bad...
especially if you keep moving and give her a couple scrubbings.

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OJ
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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2003 : 13:49:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by WGriswold
If I can't see any blisters can I just clean the hull and apply the new botton paint?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Normally you can see and feel blisters as soon as you pull the boat. I've seen a couple boats with VC-17 applied directly to the gelcoat - although I think the norm on this forum has been to apply Interlux System 2000 first.
You're lucky you don't have blisters! There's an '86 or two on our lake that had them.

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