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'86 Catalina Buc Book Value ...

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unixverse
Deckhand

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19 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/02/2004 : 11:53:52

Hello -

My wife and I have been looking at a '86 Catalina 25. The current owners are asking for $10,999 but the Buc Book Value is only from $9,450 to $10,450. They don't want to move because they are saying that they invested a lot of money. Is that reasonable? The boat is in a wonderful condition and they have really taken good care of it.

The sails are original and so I was wondering if that could be a problem - I have not seen them yet? I assume they are fine if they took care of them the way they did take care of the boat.

We are just afraid that we are overpaying but I really love this boat. Is it worth to pay the money they are asking for?

The boat comes with main (original), 2 jibs (one new and one original), genoa, spinnaker. It also has a VHF radio and Loran. Depthsounder, Autopilot and Knotmeter.

Any comments would be helpful!

Thanks,
Joe

Edited by - unixverse on 03/02/2004 11:54:34

TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:12:14

Joe,

I bought my 82 Catalina a year ago for $9K and found out afterward that the high end was about $7,500 but that didn't include the trailer that I have been told is worth around $1,500. So maybe I came out OK.

However, I do caution you to check out the sails carefully. I think my sails were original sails as well. After the first couple of outings I had rips in the back edge of my genoa that wouldn't hold any stitching when I tried to mend them. The fabric would split when I tried to push the needle through. Ending up paying around $600 for a new genoa. Main was good I suspect primarily because it had a good sail cover to protect it over the years. Genoa was on a roller furler that really had no protection from the weather.

Do make sure you inspect the sails carefully.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:19:25

A quick look on Yachtworld yielded 6 boats with asking prices of $7,900 to $11,500. From this sampling, the $11,000 asking price is a little on the highside, but whether this boat warrants the higher price is all dependent on the condition of the boat/motor/sails/trailer.

You mentioned that the sellers don't want to move on price because they have a lot invested and feel it's worth that much, but I've found that a boat, and anything else, is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

How long has this boat been up for sale?

Sorry I wasn't more help.

Edited by - dlucier on 03/02/2004 12:20:31

unixverse
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:41:48

Hello -

Thanks for your comments. The boat has been for sale since last year Thanksgiving. Originally they wanted $12,500 for it but late January they reduced that to $10,999. I think they want to get rid of it so I really don't understand why they wouldn't accept $10,000 for it. After all we would have to pay sales tax for that too.

The boat and motor is in a great condition. They have really taken care of it. It does not come with a trailer but with a cradle. This is fine for us since we don't want to move it around anyway.

The only thing I haven't seen yet are the sails. I guess I will really have to take a good look.

I think they are a little bit unreasonable if they stick with their price. The problem is that the bank will only finance the Buc Book value of it.

What I forgot to tell is that it has the inboard diesel engine. Is this something that the Buc Book value considers?

Thanks again!

Joe

Edited by - unixverse on 03/02/2004 12:46:01

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:53:57

joe
remember that this boat is no longer made and if you like the condition.go for it!!!
i would think the older these boats get the ones that are in good shape will always bring more money.
i don't know where you are located but in the midwest this kind of boat don't last long on the market.
are the sellers being too tight? maybe, and maybe not.
if they have taken care of the boat what is the value of a nicer looking boat to you.

i see catalina 25's all over the country and i will say a good clean 25 is very hard to come by.

maybe if you explained to them that the bank can't go more than the value you are willing to split the differance.

if you can live with a boat not as clean look elsewhere.

dave holtgrave
5722
sk/tr
sailing carlyle lake in southern illinois

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:58:11

joe
look what just came on the for sale section below.
seems like a good buy.
dave holtgrave
5722
sk/tr

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:00:09

Joe,

For the last two boats we purchased we established pricing for the boat and sails individually. That approach might enable you to get them to wiggle.

For a reference, a friend of mine purchased a mint 1986 with a like new trailer over 5 years ago for $10K.

Good luck and let us know if you're successful!

Edited by - OJ on 03/02/2004 13:01:09

unixverse
Deckhand

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19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:03:12

Dave -

Thanks for your comments.

Personally, I would pay the money because I like the boat and the condition it is in very much. I have been sailing since I was 15 and seen a lot of crummy sailboats. This one I liked from the beginning because it was taken care of very well.

The only problem is to find arguments to convince my wife. She does not have any experience with sailboats and thinks we would overpay. Financing should be fine as soon as I pass this one final hurdle ;). Well ... maybe the sellers will move a little bit too ... hopefully.

Thanks!

Joe

Edited by - on

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:12:12

If the prices shown are for an average boat, and this one is really nice with sails and engine in comparible condition, then it is probably worth the extra grand. If the price does not reflect a diesel, then it is definitly worth the extra grand.

I gave $6500 for mine, but it was in pretty sad cosmetic shape and had been for sale for 3 years at a dealers. I probably paid too much, but I think I have finaly found the boat to do the job I want for the least amount of dollars.

Like your seller, I will probally have more bucks in it than it is worth when I get done, but I live in an area where C-25's rare, and not too many people are hot for them. But then they are not too interested if it is not a bass boat.

Bottom line, it is like the 66 Stingray I used to own-- when I walk away from it, I have to turn around and look at it one more time before I go. That made it worth the extra $ for me.

Edited by - on

unixverse
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:13:29

Dave -

Where is the For Sale section below? For some reason I cannot find it ...

Thanks,
Joe

Edited by - on

unixverse
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:17:04

skipn809 -

What do you mean by 'If the price does not reflect a diesel, then it is definitely worth the extra grand.' It does have an inboard diesel ... is that a bad thing or a good thing? I have always liked the inboarders over an outboarder.

Thanks,
Joe

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:19:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by unixverse
 Dave -

Where is the For Sale section below? For some reason I cannot find it ...

Thanks,
Joe
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=5

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:26:51

I would say that the deal depends on the condition of the diesel and the avilability of diesel repair in your area. Without a trailer you need to rely on a mechanic you can sail to. Sails are relitively cheap from CD. You will need a new main to enjoy a new to you boat.

Edited by - on

ppetracca
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USA
163 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:29:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The only problem is to find arguments to convince my wife. She does not have any experience with sailboats <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My 2 cents worth...

Perhaps you should consider another boat at a lower price or a newer boat. I say this because you are talking about financing the boat. It is already 19 years old. You will quickly be upside down in what you owe to what it is worth when you consider the interest on the note.

What happens if your wife decides sailing is not her bag and your stuck with a boat payment, slip payment, insurance payment, etc.

Personally, I would never take a note on an old boat, regardless of its condition. I also try to realistically put no more into the boat's needs than I can get out. Sails, hull, rigging, etc. Things I can recover on re-sale. You don't buy a boat planning to sell it, but you must think ahead.

Items I add on (electronics, galley upgrades, pressure water, etc.) I consider "comfort" items and the cost of my enjoyment of the boat.

Example: I purchased my '25 for $4,500.00 in '02. It needed a new bottom, completely redone, $4,000.00. It also needed a new mainsail, $740.00. I now have about $9,300.00 in required costs. Somewhere in the neighborhood of what I could expect to get if I sold it tomorrow. Things I've added on are my expense for enjoyment. However, I have no note to worry about. If I quit sailing tomorrow it would not cost a dime to sit in my driveway.

Food for thought.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:47:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 You will need a new main to enjoy a new to you boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Frank, I have to disagree with that statement. My original 1985 sails are doing just fine. Probably wouldn't win any real races, but certainly serve their purpose for cruising.

Joe, as you can tell, you will never get a committee to agree on anything; especially value. Just under two years ago I bought my freshwater 1985 standard rig, fin keel, outboard, four original sails in good to great condition, dry bilge, silvered and pitted teak. Nothing fancy and no improvements, but relatively well cared for and the best 25' boat for sale on the lake.

The seller was asking $9,000, but the bottom had not been done in over six years. So, I talked him down $1,000 to cover a bottom job. Since then I have put $2,000 into her, have plenty of projects remaining, and still have NOT had the bottom done. When all is said and done, I will most likely have $13,000 to $14,000 into her within the first five years of ownership.

Did I over pay? Am I putting too much into her? Quite frankly, I don't care one way or another. Why? Because the pleasure and reward I derive from sailing her, spending time on her, and working on her is worth exponentially more to me than the monetary value.

IMHO, if the boat you're looking at is in that good of condition, then any perceived overpayment of $500, $1000, or even $2000 will come out in the wash in the long run. Like a house, however, it is long-term ownership that makes depreciation of the perceived overpayment inconsequential. If you're likely to sell the boat anytime soon, then you're going to want to under pay as much as possible, of course.

Best of luck with your decision!

P.s. No, I don't believe the inboard would be considered in the price, because the overriding majority are outboards. However, some people might think that the inboard would lower the value, due to maintenance and aesthetic concerns.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 03/02/2004 13:50:55

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
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Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 14:15:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 You will need a new main to enjoy a new to you boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Frank, I have to disagree with that statement. My original 1985 sails are doing just fine. Probably wouldn't win any real races, but certainly serve their purpose for cruising.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
An zat ees wy I vil kik your but when you come to Cheney next year.

Edited by - on

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 14:58:41

J.B. and I march to the same drummer.

For what it is worth, my 1985 main is original and I'd say I still have a lot of years left in it, since it was used mainly here in the midwest. I don't need a diesel because I sail a small lake, so you're guess will be better than mine.

As far a the $ and work go, the boat is my stress management program because I like to sail them and work on them. Sure, you may piss some of your money away, but you wom't tknow that until the end. From my perspective on $-- ever seen a hearse with luggage racks?

Edited by - on

unixverse
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 15:13:56

Hello -

Thanks a lot for all the comments. I have to agree that I really don't care that the boat will be worth less in a few years. I want to enjoy it and for that it has to feel right. The one I was looking at just "felt" right. The bottom was done just recently and the diesel is in a perfect condition. I understand that I might have to invest some money down the road for various repairs/maintenance but that's just what you have to do.

My Dad is looking into selling his 25' boat and I don't know how much money he has invested over the years for toys and gimmicks. I think he realizes that he won't get all that money but it really doesn't matter because he had fun with it.

Alrighty ... thanks again for all the comments!

Joe

Edited by - on

Captain B
1st Mate

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USA
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Response Posted - 03/02/2004 : 15:30:17

The boat is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

Edited by - on

matsche
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Response Posted - 03/03/2004 : 07:38:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It does have an inboard diesel ... is that a bad thing or a good thing?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You'll get a lot of different opinions on that, but IMHO it's not a plus. The diseal cost more, so naturally the boat will cost a little more. But you're looking at substantially higher maintenance cost (and hassle), lower performance (both sailing and motoring), more difficulting manuvering at low speeds, less room in the cabin and that unpleasant smell. On the plus side you have a prop that will stay in the water better if you motor in big waves.

If it were me (and it's not), I'd negotiate it down or walk away.

No sooner did I post then I saw we had an active thread on [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5834"]diseals[/url]. My bad!

Edited by - matsche on 03/03/2004 07:46:28

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2004 : 09:02:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by matsche
 [quote]No sooner did I post then I saw we had an active thread on [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5834"]diseals[/url]. My bad!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm guessing that Joe may be Nate's friend. Est ce pas aussi?

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
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Response Posted - 03/03/2004 : 09:51:47

hey skipn809
in n.e. missouri.
close to me at east of st louis.
i know the felling of the corvettes of the 60's
you just can't walk away without looking.
don't you wish you had that car back?
dave holtgrave
5722
sk/tr
sailing carlyle lake in southern illinois

Edited by - on

unixverse
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 03/03/2004 : 10:51:30

Antares -

Who is Nate and what is that French all about?

Thanks again for all the comments!

Joe

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2004 : 11:09:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by unixverse
 Who is Nate and what is that French all about?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nate Adams on Heeling Properties of Lake Mead, Nevada who, in the diesel thread, posted that he was going with a friend to look at a C25 with an inboard diesel. I thought maybe "the friend" was you, Joe, but apparently not.

Est ce pas aussi? = Is it not? A fascination with foreign languages and cultures is just one of my many idiosyncracies.

Edited by - on

unixverse
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 03/03/2004 : 11:18:05

Antares -

Non ... c'est ne pas moi!

What other languages do you speak?

Joe

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2004 : 11:29:01

Unfortunately, none, except the smattering of phrases in a multitude of languages that we all seem to pick up. As a matter of fact, I couldn't even say that I "speak" French. I'd love to be truly multi-lingual, but I have not had the time or opportunity (or squandered them in my miss spent youth). However, I bought a Foreign Service Spanish mini-lab and intend to spend muchas horas studying on the boat this year; should drive my marina mates nuts. ;-)

Edited by - on

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