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Another Gin Pole Solution

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2010 : 18:42:52

Steve, the winch is a standard Fulton trailer 1,000LB winch. It is a two-way winch so it is under control both raising and lowering the mast. Flipping a lever determines which way the ratchet system operates. The winch is fastened to the pole using a U bolt and a regular bolt. See photo.

Yes, the mast collar goes under the spreaders and is held at that height by the main halyard. So there are two things connected to the collar. The main halyard holds it at the proper height and another line (I use a cable) goes to the top of the gin pole.

Here is the winch showing how it is connected to the gin pole.It is about 4' up the pole.

Here is the top of the pole. The line from the winch goes through the block and to the eye in the anchor locker. The line/cable from the mast collar goes to the other eye strap at the top of the pole.

Here is the bottom of the pole. It has a SS bimini fitting.

Here is the mast connection. It has the matching SS bimini fitting. The mast connection gets mounted low on the mast, just above the mast step. The connection is made up of two large U bolts. The inside width is 3" and the U bolts are 6" long. I put plastic tubing over the threads so that the mast does not get scratched.

Another view of the mast connection.

I raise and lower the mast myself. I use velcro to hold the toggles in place at the shrouds. I don't want anyone behind the mast or in the cockpit just in case anything goes wrong. Same thing when we use the trailer mast system. My wife stands on the dock and looks at the shrouds, etc or she stands on the foredeck and observes. If she sees anything go wrong - perhaps the backstay gets caught up, then I stop and she frees the backstay. Then she gets away and I start winching again.

One other tip. We have had the mast end of a lower shroud get caught sideways in its "slot" on the mast. Pain in the butt. Now I use thin velcro and velcro the lower shrouds against the mast right at the slot. As the mast rises the shrouds are pulled away from the mast and the velcro is released and drops to the deck.

The system works very well. Let me know if you need any more information or photos. Happy to help.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/05/2010 18:57:06

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 05:21:56

Excellent pics Randy, I really appreciate the info. That's just what I was looking for. I'll need to make some adjustments based on the end fittings I have on the pole but I have some ideas. I'll try to post some pics when I put it together.

In the future I'll have the mast raised and lowered at the boat yard with their crane but for now I need to lower it myself.

Thanks!!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 07:24:25

Steve, do you have a trailer with the mast raising "tower?" If so, it is a very effective way to raise and lower the mast.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 09:00:29

No, the PO cut the tower off for some reason. I've tried to figure some way to attach something to what's left of the tower but I haven't come up with anything.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 10:16:46

One more thing Randy, I assume since you lower the mast solo that you have a mast cradle mounted in the gudgeons?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 12:37:27

Yes. When the mast is nearing the cradle my wife, or some other helper, will step on board and guide the mast onto the cradle. We actually have two sets of gudgeons so that we don't have to remove the rudder for the mast support. The mast support gudgeons are just to the port of the rudder gudgeons. The mast support/cradle is a very important component.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/07/2010 12:38:56

Tradewind
Admiral

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531 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 13:47:54

Thanks, guess I need to find a mast cradle, I don't really want to remove the rudder so another set of gudgeons are in order.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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531 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 16:28:03

Well, the system has worked. I built a cradle with pieces of 2 x 4, created a gin pole with parts I had, very similar to Randy's system. Raised the mast myself today with little trouble and a lot of sweat. Going in the water tomorrow hoping the oil in the Gulf won't spoil the new bottom job

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 19:43:42

Great! Glad to hear it worked out. Let's hope they get that !@#$%!! spill corralled soon.

Edited by - on

frogger
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184 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 06:11:50

OK, so exactly what size pipe is used and what material? Boat will be in the water at time of dropping mast.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 07:03:56

Frogger, I used an aluminum pole that used to be a self tending boom for a Cal 36, probably a little larger than necessary. It's 9' long, I think 8' would work, and it's 2 1/4 inch OD, probably overkill but that's what I had. I mounted a Fulton winch about half way along the pole like Randy's design. I can take pics later in the week. I built a cradle out of 2 x 4 and mounted it to the rail above the fuel locker.

Edited by - Tradewind on 06/07/2010 07:05:05

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2010 : 13:13:31

Grogger, my pole is aluminum and is 1 1/2" diameter with 1/4" walls. The inner diameter is 1" which makes for a good fit with 1" bimini fitting. Very heavy duty, probable more than needed. The length is whatever it takes to go from the mast to the anchor locker eye, probably around 8'.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2010 : 19:03:12

I need to re-activate this thread because my anchor light went out and I don't want to go up on a bosun's chair. I have several other things I'd like to do to the masthead, so I need to study up and prepare for dropping the mast. I like Randy's design a lot. But I have to ask a few questions:
<ul><li>What are "baby stays"?</li><li>I have no mast raising collar, and did not see a picture of that. Is it something that I need to fabricate for myself? It seems like something that goes around the mast above the boom, and is raised to the spreaders via the jib halyard, right?</li><li>I also have no mast cradle, or extra gudgeons to mount one. Steve referred to constructing one out of 2x4 lumber and mounting it to the fuel locker rail. Any chance of getting pics, or other details?</li><li>Do I need to remove the jib and furler from the forestay before lowering the mast, or can I leave it in place?</li><li>Ditto for boom? I assume it's almost certain that the boom needs to come off due to weight and maneuverability.</li><li>Do I need to loosen all the stays, or do some of them have low enough tension that they can left at their current settings?</li><li>Any suggestions on the best type of store to find the u-bolts?</li></ul>
[EDIT: I just found the section of my owners manual on mast raising and lowering, and some of the above questions are covered there. So don't spend too much time spoonfeeding me. But it does appear that I am missing some parts that would be needed for this, so any suggestions for making substitutes (such as for the collar) would be appreciated.]

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/03/2010 19:17:37

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2010 : 20:08:51

Rick,
Baby stays are temporary stays that attach to the mast about eye height, if I remember correctly, and have pelican hooks on the other end that clip to the stanchion base. They prevent lateral movement of the mast while the mast is being lowered or raised. I ordered mine from Catalina Direct.
You're correct about the collar, I use the main halyard to raise the collar up to the spreaders, a line from the gin pole also connects to the collar. Also bought mine from Catalina Direct but you can use appropriate sized line to make one.
I'll see if I can get a pic of the cradle I built, it's at the boat.
The jib can be left in place, I did remove my sail and left the jib extrusion on.
Remove the boom.
I slacked all stays, count the turns you make on the turnbuckles so you can return the stays to the previously set tension.
I found my u-bolts at a tractor supply store, I've seen them also at a trailer building shop.

It's really quite easy using the gin pole system Randy shows in the pics earlier in this topic.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2010 : 08:23:15

I bought baby stays for my Cat 250 WK in February 2009. I would not want to raise or lower my mast without them using a boat or trailer mounted gin pole. Here's what I posted at the time:

"A set of baby stays for my 1999 Catalina 250 Wing Keel is Part Number 80529 for $88.16 from the Parts Dept. of Catalina Yachts. The canvas mast strap is Part No. 80564 for $22 and change. Phone number there is 818-884-7700.

The method for handling the order is a little strange. You call and get the part information. Then email or fax that data plus your Address, Phone,and Boat Model to <salesperson's name goes here>@catalinayachts.com. Then they call you for credit card information. ??? "

I used a loop of heavy rope instead of the canvas collar. I think I remember having to use a long boat hook to jostle it into sliding down after the mast was raised.

Edited by - jbkayaker on 09/04/2010 08:26:37

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2010 : 12:46:12

This thread has been extremely helpful. I am hoping to duplicate as many of Randy's design details as possible. However, I've had a hard time finding a suitable pole. The closest I've come is a 1" dia SS tube, but it's only 6' long, so my search continues.

But it begs the question, is a 1" SS tube rigid enough, or do I need to find something larger diameter? I'm sure wall thickness plays a large part in this also, so do you guys have any guidelines for the minimum diameter/wall thickness for both SS and Al? I have a 1" end cap like Randy, so 1" tube for the whole length would make for a simple one-piece tube design. Outfitting a 1" insert like Randy shows complicates things, because then I need to find two tubes, and the ID tolerance of the outer tube becomes a lot more critical.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2010 : 06:29:38

I've done a lot more looking around the past day, calling and visiting a couple of non-marine metal suppliers in addition to the normal marine stores, but still having a real hard time finding something suitable. The best I've found so far is Defender #753865. It's 304 SS, 1" OD x 1/16" wall thickness:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1152861

Do any of you have direct experience with using this as a gin pole? Any reason to believe that the compressive force on it would be too great, and it might buckle? Could this be too small to mount a winch to? I know this is smaller than the aluminum poles that others have used, but 304 SS is significantly stiffer than Al is. Maybe I need to break out my mechanics texts and calculate the stresses for a large Al pole vs. a smaller SS pole. But your practical experience would be much more valuable.

It would be great if this pole could do double-duty for something else, such as maybe a whisker pole. What are the normal design specs for a whisker pole for a 110? Would 8' be about the right length? Is there somewhere I could get compatible hardware for the ends of the pole?

Edited by - TakeFive on 11/09/2010 06:33:34

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2010 : 21:11:40

If you are using a longer mast step bolt, be sure it is hardened. Use grade 5 bolt, NOT grade 8. Grade 5 is strong but will bend before breaking, grade 8 is harder but brittle enough to snap rather than bend.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 04:25:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skybird
 If you are using a longer mast step bolt, be sure it is hardened. Use grade 5 bolt, NOT grade 8. Grade 5 is strong but will bend before breaking, grade 8 is harder but brittle enough to snap rather than bend.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I plan to make a U-bolt bracket with bimini deck hinge, like what Randy shows above.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 05:58:25

I addition to my prior request for advice on the suitability of using 1" SS tubing for a gin pole (and possibly a whisker pole), I just thought of another question.

I have been debating whether to buy/make a crutch to mount on the transom. Although I had been assuming I would have to go to the pains of removing and storing my bimini framework to get it out of the way of the lowered mast, after looking at the following picture I realized that I might be able to rest the mast on top of the bimini framework. I could pad it with pipe insulation to protect everything. Just how heavy is the mast on a standard rig C250? Does this picture of the framework look like it would be sturdy enough to bear the weight of the top half of the mast?

<center>

</center>

Edited by - TakeFive on 11/10/2010 06:00:34

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 06:12:38

Rick, personally I wouldn't do it if you trailer. Maybe a support under the bimini frame to transfer the load to the hull in some fashion.(pvc and bungees

) Other consideration would be bridge clearance while trailering. Would the top of the mast be "ramped" up in the air too high?

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 06:32:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 528
 Rick, personally I wouldn't do it if you trailer. Maybe a support under the bimini frame to transfer the load to the hull in some fashion.(pvc and bungees

) Other consideration would be bridge clearance while trailering. Would the top of the mast be "ramped" up in the air too high?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I do not have a trailer. This is strictly for lowering the mast while on the hard in the boatyard for the winter. I would then put a tarp (one large one or two smaller ones) over the whole boat.

There is a possibility of someday lowering the mast in the slip if I need to do masthead maintenance. But no plan at all of trailering.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2010 : 17:13:46

I got my pole material from:

[url="www.onlinemetals.com"]Onlinemetals[/url]

Click on the Aluminum tab.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 11/10/2010 17:16:24

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2010 : 10:41:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I got my pole material from:

[url="www.onlinemetals.com"]Onlinemetals[/url]

Click on the Aluminum tab.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Randy,

Thanks for the link. I've been spending the whole week debating whether to go with 1-1/2" Al or 1" SS (or antenna mast or electrical conduit), and am now leaning strongly toward the 1-1/2" Al just like you used. A large part of the reason is that it gives a beefier support to the winch, and my U-bolts for the winch are 1-1/2" wide (leftover from an antenna I bought).

Sorry to keep nagging you with more questions, but I do now need to know about the 1" SS joiners that you used in the middle and at the bottom end. Did a standard 1" SS stock fit right inside the Al tube, or did you have to do any custom machining? If so, did you have to turn it on a lathe, or were you able to just sand it down a bit? Or, did it give a somewhat loose fit that you were able to secure (when appropriate) with through-bolts? I want to order stock for that joiner piece also, since I have a 1" end cap just like yours that must fit properly.

Edited by - TakeFive on 11/13/2010 10:43:57

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2010 : 12:18:25

I just finished building a gin pole for my tall rig. I used 1" aluminum strap for the legs to reach a longer mast bolt. These are through-bolted to either side of the pole so one will be on each side of mast base. The pole itself is probably overkill--about a 9' piece of round extrusion which used to be an awning roller on an rv. Diameter is 3". 1000 lb 2 way winch is bolted to it about 42" from the base of mast attachment. Cable from winch goes to a turning block at the end, then down to a shackle at the stem. Haven't decided yet whether to attach forestay (inside furler extrusion) or jib halyard to the upper side, so advice there would be appreciated.

Edited by - on

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